MERGED: Forced to sing/hold hands during the Our Father

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I will NOT hold hands during Mass. I’m just too set in my beliefs and I don’t give in. Its 5 to 5 for me and I ignore the crowd.
 
ByzCath said:
Have you ever felt that you were forced to participate in the hand holding during the Our Father?

It seems that there are some users who deny that anyone can feel forced to do so.

I would add that having the priest celebrating Mass telling the congregation to hold hands at the Our Father is just one way to force this.
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Your poll is poorly constructed. There needs to be other options.

While I seriously doubt that any adult is “forced” to hold hands (being asked by a priest is not n example of being “forced”) it would seem quite possible that some feel pressured to hold hands on a very rare basis and some would equate that to being “forced.”

Even more important, the frequency feeling pressured on a very rare basis would in no way justify the comments we continually see on this forum about hand holding. In my personal opinion people who have been taught to despise hand-holding (via CA, EWTN and other sources) use the notion of “forced hand holding” as a stage to repudiate what they have been taught to hate.

That’s significant for a very important reason. Hand holding and hand holders should be ignored. It’s none of your business. It’s not up to laypeople to deal with this matter – it’s up to the priest/pastor. HOWEVER as long as one claims they are being “forced” to hold hands they can claim it is part of their business and the frustration, anger and misinformation continues to circulate around and around and around and that’s BAD…
 
The congregation holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer is a violation of the Liturgical Norms. No priest or lay person has the right to alter the Liturgical Norms

Karl Keating, the owner of Catholic Answers, stated in his E-Letter of April 11, 2006 :

ORIGINS OF HAND-HOLDING

The current issue of the “Adoremus Bulletin” says this in response to a query from a priest in the Bronx:

“No gesture for the people during the Lord’s Prayer is mentioned in the official documents. The late liturgist Fr. Robert Hovda promoted holding hands during this prayer, a practice he said originated in Alcoholics Anonymous. Some ‘charismatic’ groups took up the practice.”

My long-time sense had been that hand-holding at the Our Father was an intrusion from charismaticism, but I had not been aware of the possible connection with AA. If this is the real origin of the practice, it makes it doubly odd: first, because hand-holding intrudes a false air of chumminess into the Mass (and undercuts the immediately-following sign of peace), and second, because modifications to liturgical rites ought to arise organically and not be borrowed from secular self-help groups.

Periodically, on “Catholic Answers Live” I am asked about hand-holding during Mass and explain that it is contrary to the rubrics. Usually I get follow-up e-mails from people who say, “But it’s my favorite part of the Mass” or “We hold hands as a family, and it makes us feel closer.”

About the latter I think, “It’s good to feel close as a family, but you can hold hands at home or at the mall. The Mass has a formal structure that should be respected. That means you forgo certain things that you might do on the outside.”

About the former comment I think, “If this is the high point of the Mass for you, you need to take Remedial Mass 101. The Mass is not a social event. It is the re-presentation of the sacrifice of Calvary, and it is the loftiest form of prayer. It should be attended with appropriate solemnity.”
 
In his book, Mass Confusion, Jimmy Akin says the following:

“The Holy See has not ruled directly on this issue. In a response to a query, however, the Holy See stated that holding hands “is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics” (Notitiae 11 [1975] 226, DOL 1502 n. R29). For this reason, no one can be required to hold hands during the Our Father.”
(Nor is the orans posture in the rubrics.)

The U.S. Status:
People hold hands during the Our Father (p. 161)—Discouraged
(*Mass Confusion *Appendix Three pg. 234)

In the new General Instruction of the Roman Missal the only posture specified during the Our Father is standing.
GIRM: usccb.org/liturgy/current…isromanien.htm
(paragraphs 43 and 160)
 
CalifCatholic said:
The congregation holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer is a violation of the Liturgical Norms. No priest or lay person has the right to alter the Liturgical Norms

Karl Keating, the owner of Catholic Answers, stated in his E-Letter of April 11, 2006 :

ORIGINS OF HAND-HOLDING

The current issue of the “Adoremus Bulletin” says this in response to a query from a priest in the Bronx:

“No gesture for the people during the Lord’s Prayer is mentioned in the official documents. The late liturgist Fr. Robert Hovda promoted holding hands during this prayer, a practice he said originated in Alcoholics Anonymous. Some ‘charismatic’ groups took up the practice.”

My long-time sense had been that hand-holding at the Our Father was an intrusion from charismaticism, but I had not been aware of the possible connection with AA. If this is the real origin of the practice, it makes it doubly odd: first, because hand-holding intrudes a false air of chumminess into the Mass (and undercuts the immediately-following sign of peace), and second, because modifications to liturgical rites ought to arise organically and not be borrowed from secular self-help groups.

Periodically, on “Catholic Answers Live” I am asked about hand-holding during Mass and explain that it is contrary to the rubrics. Usually I get follow-up e-mails from people who say, “But it’s my favorite part of the Mass” or “We hold hands as a family, and it makes us feel closer.”

About the latter I think, “It’s good to feel close as a family, but you can hold hands at home or at the mall. The Mass has a formal structure that should be respected. That means you forgo certain things that you might do on the outside.”

About the former comment I think, “If this is the high point of the Mass for you, you need to take Remedial Mass 101. The Mass is not a social event. It is the re-presentation of the sacrifice of Calvary, and it is the loftiest form of prayer. It should be attended with appropriate solemnity.”
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As someone who grew up Catholic I’ve always wondered why these “misunderstandings” are never corrected by the Pope?? I left during the time of Pope John Paul II because he just seemed to never correct any of the the crazy stuff that was going on. Pope Benedict XVI seems much more conservative then the last Pope and has been promoting more reverence but still seems to move slowly when it comes to correcting the many things people say are just “misunderstandings”. Why not issue a directive on how the Mass is to proceed and any deviation of it is a direct form of disobedience that holds immediate consequences? It seems to me that some Priests do whatever they want because they know there will be no consequences.

I don’t really needs answers, I’m just thinking aloud. These are just some of the questions that have always prevented me from returning to the Catholic Church even when the desire has come to return over the last 15 years or so.
 
Well, that would be like the President helping an FBI agent with an investigation.

There are different levels of responsibility. If priests goof up, then the Bishop needs to handle it. And the USCCB needs to provide the guidelines.

The Pope would only weigh in if things got way WAY out of hand
 
CalifCatholic said:
Well, that would be like the President helping an FBI agent with an investigation.

There are different levels of responsibility. If priests goof up, then the Bishop needs to handle it. And the USCCB needs to provide the guidelines.

The Pope would only weigh in if things got way WAY out of hand
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I don’t think your comparison is accurate at all. Confusions and misunderstandings have been going on since Vatican-II so maybe its time for the Pope to get involved. I can see the Pope allowing local Bishops to handle matters at a local level but when is it time to step in? I don’t think the Pope getting together the top Bishops/Cardinals, and developing rules for the way a Mass is to be is a crazy idea. Maybe it is and I’m to far removed from the Catholic Church to understand this. Its just my opinion.
 
Oh? I thought my analogy was apt.

In fact, the Pope has stepped in when things have gotten too far out of hand. Remember ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA by John Paul II? He directly addressed issues in the Liturgy of the Eucharist that were getting out of hand.

But as much as I dislike the whole holding hands thing, I just don’t think it rises to that level. Hey, I would love to see him step in too, but I am just trying to be realistic about the matter
 
I understand what your saying. The hand holding does not rise to the level of importance of the Pope stepping in, but I see it as a symptom of a larger problem. I believe the Pope also said the EM should only be used in rare circumstances yet I’ve seen them in almost every Catholic Church I’ve been in.

I guess I just like order and to know that no matter which Church I pick to go to I’m pretty much getting the same Mass/Liturgy. I can go in pretty much any Orthodox Church and no matter the language I’m getting the same Liturgy for that day. This is not so with the Catholic Church.

I’m not trying to be argumentative just present some of the things that have always been in my heart when it comes to the Catholic Church.
CalifCatholic said:
Oh? I thought my analogy was apt.

In fact, the Pope has stepped in when things have gotten too far out of hand. Remember ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA by John Paul II? He directly addressed issues in the Liturgy of the Eucharist that were getting out of hand.

But as much as I dislike the whole holding hands thing, I just don’t think it rises to that level. Hey, I would love to see him step in too, but I am just trying to be realistic about the matter
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At our parish, at every Mass they have us hold hands. I personally was taken aback by this. It makes me feel like we’re in a “Holy Roller” church IMO. But if that’s how it’s done at our parish I’ll conform so not to cause a scene. I’d rather conform than lose my temper at someone who forces me.
 
gatewood1988 said:
At our parish, at every Mass they have us hold hands. I personally was taken aback by this. It makes me feel like we’re in a “Holy Roller” church IMO. But if that’s how it’s done at our parish I’ll conform so not to cause a scene. I’d rather conform than lose my temper at someone who forces me.
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There is a third choice: Go see your bishop, with proper information in hand
 
I’ve read through a couple posts and I find it sort of bewildering and saddened by the effect that some people are taking with this.

First off I’d like to say that “yes, I believe that we as the UNIFIED body of Christ should get rid of the pride of our American bubble and hold the hands of our brothers and sisters”.

I’d like to say that even though I am new to the Catholic church the biggest part is that we are a family. We have been saved by Christ and due to this we are apart of the Family of God. WE are brothers and sisters in Christ, yet we complain about holding each others hands while praying to our Father in heaven?

I have heard some say that they enjoy holding the hands of their family members hands, their wife, their children. We must understand that when we are in Mass we should not look at people as wife or child, but understand all as brother and sister. Community should be a major part of the Catholic faith, but due to the complexity of today’s world, and the dark influence that has been placed on it, we do not see these people to our left and right as brothers and sisters, but rather family or stranger. Tear off the blindfold that has been placed over your eyes and realize that who we worship is greater than our self pride of holding some ones hand, he deserves all glory and honor and I feel personally that the holding of the hands by the entirety of the congregation is an excellent way to show the unified body in Christ. There is SO much that I would like to see changed, such as rushing through masses cause we’re in a hurry to go do other things, instead of taking the time to truly worship our God and Father in heaven.

I come from a pentecostal background family. I’m the first Catholic in my family, ever. One thing that I see is a mass that lasts 30 min. and people still complaining that it was SO long. A pentecostal service is 2 hrs of praising and rejoicing in Christ.

How many people go to adoration? How many people go to confession? I am constantly haunted by the words of my patron saint St. John Vianney when he describes the horrific state of the Lukewarm soul and the Catholic Church.

I’m sorry I don’t want to sound like I’m preaching but, stop looking at stuff as “stupid, disgusting, or insanitary” and think of the Eternal Glory of the Father in heaven. That’s what we were made for, not our comfort but for the Glory of God. I would say go out, look past the comfortable lifestyle that we live and hold your brothers hand in the Mass, cause we have been saved by the Savior of the World, Jesus Christ our Lord and he is worthy of 50 secs of your uncomfortable state cause he made the greatest sacrifice and gave you eternal life and I’m sure he was uncomfortable on that cross for a whole lot longer than 50 secs.

God Bless.
 
While I am new to the Catholic faith and have yet to be recieved into the Church (Easter Vigil can’t get here fast enough) I prefer not to hold hands. I go to Church with my boyfriend every week and we have never held hands during the Our Father. We’ve also gone with his family and they don’t do it either. I feel it’s a personal choice and we just choose not to do it. It doesn’t make our prayer any less meaningful, it’s just how we choose to pray.

I have never been forced to hold anyone’s hand and if I found myself in a situation where someone forcibly grabbed my hand, I’m pretty sure I would forcibly remove it from their grasp. I won’t be forced to pray differently simply because the stranger next to me insists that I hold their hand.
 
While I prefer to avoid holding hands (I am one of the few who does not at my parish). I would never turn down anyone who offers their hand. I do not feel forced. I just don’t believe it worth making an issue. Charity and prudence override legalism for me.
 
Shoshana said:
And I so desire that they get rid of this…it does not belong in a Holy Mass…I don’t care about germs. I care about the reverence and lack thereof…:mad:
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Well said and I really like your signature and avatar. God love you.
 
PatriceA said:
Yes! I had someone force me by grabbing my wrist first and then my hand. I had my hands clasped in front of me and my eyes closed as I started to recite the Our Father and the person beside me was very forceful.
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If I experienced the same I would consider that action to be an assault and leave the area just as forcefully. Sorry you experienced what should be moments of reverence toward one’s neighbor.
 
pnewton said:
While I prefer to avoid holding hands (I am one of the few who does not at my parish). I would never turn down anyone who offers their hand. I do not feel forced. I just don’t believe it worth making an issue. Charity and prudence override legalism for me.
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I am sorry, but now my choosing not to participate in hand holding is a legalism?

Normally I totally agree with you but in this case you are way off base.
 
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