MERGED: Going to A Priest for Confession?/Reflection on Penance

[drafdog]

Who knew? I’m somehow unacceptable to the moderators. Mine was to be a stand-alone thread to discuss the sacrament, but because it is almost identical to one that was the subject of an infraction, it hasn’t been allowed to exist on its own.
Let’s discuss penance as a spiritual exercise.
We all tend to show up with a list of sins to confess. The curious thing is that each of us has a core list that is invariant. I’m not sure what this reflects. Is it that we are proud of that set of errors? Is it that we don’t really think they are wrong? Insanity was once defined as repeating the same set of actions over and over and expecting a different outcome. Are we insanely wishing that these won’t damage our souls? What is wrong with us? We are at the very least slow learners, or learning disabled.

Reb Levi

PS The earlier post exists elsewhere as a stand-alone and I’m still waiting to learn its fate.

 

[JRKH]

Let’s discuss penance as a spiritual exercise.
We all tend to show up with a list of sins to confess. The curious thing is that each of us has a core list that is invariant.

You state the above as a fact - and it might be true - but I wonder what you base this “core list that is invariant” idea on. This view seems to disallow for the possibility of change and growth in holiness through grace.

That said …

I’m not sure what this reflects. Is it that we are proud of that set of errors? Is it that we don’t really think they are wrong?

There are a number of things that can be going on. Imperfect contrition or “affection” for a sin is certainly part of the equation. Habit is another aspect. Kind of part of that “insanity” quote you reference.
Another aspect could be that some people have a wrong idea about confession. Some seem to view it in a legalistic sense and as a result are unable to fully embrace the many graces available in the sacrament.
Finally, the list you refer to - at its basic core - does not reflect superficial actions or thought, but rather more fundamental flaws of the type we see described in the “Seven Deadly Sins”. These flaws - these sins - will manifest themselves in different ways at different times. They can be insidious.
For example - you speak of pride…well a person might overcome their “pride”, or affection for some sinful habit and defeat the habit…but then become prideful in the fact that they overcame it…

The unchanging list that you reference is - IMHO - that list of deep character flaws that frankly, many people may simply not be aware of because they are looking at repentance and confession and conversion too superficially.

Insanity was once defined as repeating the same set of actions over and over and expecting a different outcome. Are we insanely wishing that these won’t damage our souls? What is wrong with us? We are at the very least slow learners, or learning disabled.

What’s wrong with us that that we are human…we are on the journey…and we learn at different rates…but we (hopefully) keep trying

Peace
James

 

[Philomena2009]

Let’s discuss penance as a spiritual exercise.
We all tend to show up with a list of sins to confess. The curious thing is that each of us has a core list that is invariant. I’m not sure what this reflects. Is it that we are proud of that set of errors? Is it that we don’t really think they are wrong? Insanity was once defined as repeating the same set of actions over and over and expecting a different outcome. Are we insanely wishing that these won’t damage our souls? What is wrong with us? We are at the very least slow learners, or learning disabled.

Reb Levi

Reb Levi, I can speak only for myself and my own experiences. My sin list has varied only a little over decades. I’m not proud of those sins, I realize their severity, and I know they damage my soul. I am indeed a slow learner, but not learning disabled. I think we sin, not because we’re stupid, but because we’re fallen. When I’ve asked various confessors about repeating the same sins ad nauseam, I’ve been told, “Welcome to the human race!” and “What else would you expect?” and “Don’t worry; eventually you’ll tire of that pet sin and move on to another you’ll find equally annoying.”

Habits are hard to break, no matter how awful we know them to be, but I’ve also heard that perseverance in the quest for sanctity is the best gift we can offer to God in gratitude for His endless forbearance and mercy.

 

[JRKH]

Reb Levi, I can speak only for myself and my own experiences. My sin list has varied only a little over decades. I’m not proud of those sins, I realize their severity, and I know they damage my soul. I am indeed a slow learner, but not learning disabled. I think we sin, not because we’re stupid, but because we’re fallen. When I’ve asked various confessors about repeating the same sins ad nauseam, I’ve been told, “Welcome to the human race!” and “What else would you expect?” and “Don’t worry; eventually you’ll tire of that pet sin and move on to another you’ll find equally annoying.”

Habits are hard to break, no matter how awful we know them to be, but I’ve also heard that perseverance in the quest for sanctity is the best gift we can offer to God in gratitude for His endless forbearance and mercy.

I hope the replies you share above are not typical of the advice one receives in confession. I would find such responses quite annoying and not conducive to spiritual growth…

Just my opinion

Peace
James

 

[PJM]

=ServentOfChrist;11370977]Hi, I’m new here.

I left the Catholic Church a year ago today and I am wondering if the Roman Catholic Church was right.

Can you tell me why you have to go to a priest for confession and penance, rather then going directly to Christ with repentance?

God Bless You All In Jesus Name.

SURE:thumbsup:

Thanks for asking!

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10 If** we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.** If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

[emphasis here not shouting]
MORTAL SIN HAS THE EFFECT OF SEPERATING ONE FROM GOD’S EMBRACE OF A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP …but every sin IS FORGIVABLE!

In order for a sin to be a “Mortal sin” 3 conditionsa MUST exist
Serious matter fore-knowledge that what one is contemplating will be a MORTAL sin***

+++ If the action is someting that everyone SHOULD logically ought to know is a “serious matter” such as abortion, murder, serios slander, missing obligatory Masses ect then it IS a Mortal Sin.
DESIRE to dom it anyway

John.20 Verses 20 to 23 "When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you.*** As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”***

Heb.5 Verses 1 to 6 “For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. He can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is beset with weakness. Because of this he is bound to offer sacrifice for his own sins as well as for those of the people. And one does not take the honor upon himself, but he is called by God, just as Aaron was.”

Lev.19:22 “And the priest shall make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering before the LORD for his sin which he has committed; and the sin which he has committed shall be forgiven him

**Some FYI: **

God does not have to use priest; BUT has always chosen to do so in both the OT and NT.

In OT times the actions of the preist “covered over [up]” the sins and God acepted this as sufficient. THE JEWS STILL HAVE AN ANNUAL DAY OF ATTONEMENT

In NT times : Now UNDER GRACE not gratned in the OT; God expects more and GIVES more.

His Catholic priest actually have Gods actual and REAL Powers and Authority to FORGIVE sins on God’s behalf [just as they have the Power and authority] to Make Jesus Really; Truly and Substanually Present in The Eucharist: NOTE THE WORDS OF
JOHN17:18 “As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world” repeated AGAIN IN Jn:20: 21-23 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

THIS LITERALLY MEANS WITH CHRIST VERY OWN POWERS AND ATHORITY. If you doubt this READ Mt. 10:1-8

God Commands and DEMANDS this for OUR benefit. God gains nothing. It IS difficult [embarassing to do; precisely because God desires it to be so]. God knows that by making it uncomfortable for us He provides an incentive for us NOT to sin aain.

Sin WILL ONLY be forgive in the MANNER demanded by Christ. No man invented easier options here

My friend heaven andHELL are real; Eternity is forever: GET RIGHT WIYH GOD

God Bless you,
patrick