(MERGED) Grave sins or Serious Matter

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I did a quick search and didn’t find much on the first page surprisingly.

What are examples of grave sins and how does the Church come up with what is grave? I know that John talks about there being mortal sin, but are there clues in the Bible that tell us what these sins are? Is it simply breaking the 10 commandments?etc?
 
Any act (even seemingly trivial ones) can be a grave sin under sufficiently serious circumstances. Likewise, any act (even seemingly serious ones, such as murder) can be venial or entirely sinless.

What makes the difference is the disposition of the person. Calling somebody a name might not seem very serious (surely not serious enough to cause the death of the soul), but if the intent was to deliberately harm that person’s self esteem (and hopefully drive him to depression or suicide) then the act becomes grave.

The list of offenses that are potentially grave is the same as the list of offenses. Any sin can be grave under the right circumstances.
 
CatholicSooner said:
I did a quick search and didn’t find much on the first page surprisingly.

What are examples of grave sins and how does the Church come up with what is grave? I know that John talks about there being mortal sin, but are there clues in the Bible that tell us what these sins are? Is it simply breaking the 10 commandments?etc?
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scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#IV

(note that venial sins also fall under the 10 commandments…)
 
There is no exhaustive list of grave matter things --but yes one could certainly point to many examples:

Missing Mass on Sunday or Holy Day (with out serious excuse -like illness or dispensation)
Hating ones parents
Serious disobedience
Leading someone into mortal sin
Serious detraction or calumnity
Desecration of the Eucharist
Stealing a car
Serious theft (either from the thing or circumstance etc)
Murder
Adultery
Sterilization
Masturbation
Abortion
Lying under oath
Drunkenness (where one looses ones reason for example)
Enslaving people
sacrificing to idols
Sorcery
Burning down someones house
Missing Sunday Mass (unless sick etc)
Sexual sins
pornography
IVF
Deliberate desire to kill or seriously wound a neighbor
Abortion
Contracepting before, during or after the marital act
Rejecting Christ
Gravely harming someone
Something gravely contrary to charity or justice
Serious lies
Serious scandal
Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI
  1. When does one commit a mortal sin?
1855-1861
1874

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.
  1. When does one commit a venial sin?
1862-1864
1875

One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

(Note: mortal sin and grave sin are synonyms in the Church).
 
DavidFilmer said:
Any act (even seemingly trivial ones) can be a grave sin under sufficiently serious circumstances. Likewise, any act (even seemingly serious ones, such as murder) can be venial or entirely sinless.

What makes the difference is the disposition of the person. Calling somebody a name might not seem very serious (surely not serious enough to cause the death of the soul), but if the intent was to deliberately harm that person’s self esteem (and hopefully drive him to depression or suicide) then the act becomes grave.

The list of offenses that are potentially grave is the same as the list of offenses. Any sin can be grave under the right circumstances.
Click to expand...
Bookcat said:
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#IV

(note that venial sins also fall under the 10 commandments…)
Click to expand...
Bookcat said:
There is no exhaustive list of grave matter things --but yes one could certainly point to many examples:

Missing Mass on Sunday or Holy Day (with out serious excuse -like illness or dispensation)
Hating ones parents
Serious disobedience
Leading someone into mortal sin
Serious detraction or calumnity
Desecration of the Eucharist
Stealing a car
Serious theft (either from the thing or circumstance etc)
Murder
Adultery
Sterilization
Masturbation
Abortion
Lying under oath
Drunkenness (where one looses ones reason for example)
Enslaving people
sacrificing to idols
Sorcery
Burning down someones house
Missing Sunday Mass (unless sick etc)
Sexual sins
pornography
IVF
Deliberate desire to kill or seriously wound a neighbor
Abortion
Contracepting before, during or after the marital act
Rejecting Christ
Gravely harming someone
Something gravely contrary to charity or justice
Serious lies
Serious scandal
Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI
  1. When does one commit a mortal sin?
1855-1861
1874

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.
  1. When does one commit a venial sin?
1862-1864
1875

One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

(Note: mortal sin and grave sin are synonyms in the Church).
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Thanks. It just seems too subjective for my structured mind. A grave matter for one person could not be a grave matter for another.
 
CatholicSooner said:
Thanks. It just seems too subjective for my structured mind. A grave matter for one person could not be a grave matter for another.
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It’s not just your mind - the Church teaches that we cannot ever know for sure if any particular offense is mortally sinful. Absolutely certainty of this belongs to God alone.

People come here from time to time and ask, “is such and such a mortal sin?” And the answer is always the same (no matter what “such and such” is). The answer is: maybe. And that’s the best and only answer we can ever have on earth.
 
CatholicSooner said:
I did a quick search and didn’t find much on the first page surprisingly.

What are examples of grave sins and how does the Church come up with what is grave? I know that John talks about there being mortal sin, but are there clues in the Bible that tell us what these sins are? Is it simply breaking the 10 commandments?etc?
Click to expand...
  • Titus 3: 10 Reject a factious (αἱρετικὸν heretical ) man after a first and second warning, 11knowing that such a man is )perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
  • Ephesians 5: 3-5 fornication, covetousness……5 Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
  • Hebrews 10:25-26 missing Eucharist deliberately on Sunday, no sacrifice for sin for THEM but a fiery judgement that consumes the adversaries of God.
  • Hebrews 12: 16 - 17 immoraliy,( πόρνος ) is selling your inheritance
  • Galatians 5: 19 - 21 sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions (διχοστασίαι ), factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, will not inherit heaven
  • Romans 16:17… dividers ( διχοστασίαι )don’t serve our Lord but themselves. Stay away from them. Satan will soon be crushed under your feet
  • Colossians 3: 5-6 immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry, …rath of God is coming
  • 1 Corinthians 6: 9 - 10 no sexually immoral (πόρνοι ), nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders ( ἀρσενοκοῖται ), 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
  • Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
  • 2 Peter 2:4-22
  • 2 Thes 1: 6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
Where do all these souls go who die in mortal sins? As scripture says…Hell
 
steve_b said:
  • Titus 3: 10 Reject a factious (αἱρετικὸν heretical ) man after a first and second warning, 11knowing that such a man is )perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
  • Ephesians 5: 3-5 fornication, covetousness……5 Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
  • Hebrews 10:25-26 missing Eucharist deliberately on Sunday, no sacrifice for sin for THEM but a fiery judgement that consumes the adversaries of God.
  • Hebrews 12: 16 - 17 immoraliy,( πόρνος ) is selling your inheritance
  • Galatians 5: 19 - 21 sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions (διχοστασίαι ), factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, will not inherit heaven
  • Romans 16:17… dividers ( διχοστασίαι )don’t serve our Lord but themselves. Stay away from them. Satan will soon be crushed under your feet
  • Colossians 3: 5-6 immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry, …rath of God is coming
  • 1 Corinthians 6: 9 - 10 no sexually immoral (πόρνοι ), nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders ( ἀρσενοκοῖται ), 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
  • Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
  • 2 Peter 2:4-22
  • 2 Thes 1: 6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
Where do all these souls go who die in mortal sins? As scripture says…Hell
Click to expand...
Thanks
 
DavidFilmer said:
It’s not just your mind - the Church teaches that we cannot ever know for sure if any particular offense is mortally sinful. Absolutely certainty of this belongs to God alone.
Click to expand...
Do you have a reference?
D:
People come here from time to time and ask, “is such and such a mortal sin?” And the answer is always the same (no matter what “such and such” is). The answer is: maybe. And that’s the best and only answer we can ever have on earth.
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So all these passages are just maybe? #7 I don’t think so.
 
steve_b said:
Do you have a reference?

So all these passages are just maybe? #7 I don’t think so.
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I don’t think it is possible for a person to say if another person is committing a mortal sin.
This is because we do not know their heart and they may be ignorant to what a mortal sin is.

We CAN know what grave matters are but that doesn’t constitute a mortal sin necessarily.
 
CatholicSooner said:
I don’t think it is possible for a person to say if another person is committing a mortal sin.
This is because we do not know their heart and they may be ignorant to what a mortal sin is.

We CAN know what grave matters are but that doesn’t constitute a mortal sin necessarily.
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By giving someone knowledge, (Paul gave us that list not me) then they are no longer ignorant after seeing that list. Besides, the Church accounts for ignorance providing it is innocent ignorance. Once a person has their fingerprints all over their ignorance, i.e. they are no longer innocently ignorant, because they take little effort to find out the truth, then they are fully culpable for what they do.

As the CCC also points out, (paraphrased) when a person is up to their eyeballs in one or more grave sins, they don’t WANT to change and then there are those who feign ignorance.

Here’s how the CCC treats ignorance. There’s 20 entries ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=ignorance&xsubmit=Search&s=SS

invincible ignorance is ignorance one can’t overcome even with all the effort they can come up with. Given the list of sins mentioned, if one can’t understand any of them that suggests to me someone who might be mentally challenged.
 
My name is Camille bruno Valdez my partner and I have been trying for a baby for over two years now, We were going to a fertility clinic for about 5 months before somebody told us to contact this spell caster who is so powerful, We contacted him at this email; arewaspecialisttemple@yahoo.com, for him to help us, then we told him our problem, he told us that we will either conceive in February 2014 or March 2014,but after two years of trying we were at a point where we were willing to try anything. And I’m glad we came to Dr Dahiru, Because his pregnancy spell cast put us at ease, and I honestly believe him, and his gods really helped us as well, I am thankful for all he has done. contact him via email: arewaspecialisttemple@yahoo.com if you are trying to get a baby or want your lover back. he has powers to do it, he has done mine
 
Other gods are an abomination to our God. Our God gives babies to those who want them, even to women without a husband, ie Mary. God gave a baby to Sarah and Abraham who were a barren couple. Other couples too.

What you are suggesting is wrong for Christians. Is this a joke written here. Can someone report this?
 
camillebru said:
My name is Camille bruno Valdez my partner and I have been trying for a baby for over two years now, We were going to a fertility clinic for about 5 months before somebody told us to contact this spell caster who is so powerful, We contacted him at this email; arewaspecialisttemple@yahoo.com, for him to help us, then we told him our problem, he told us that we will either conceive in February 2014 or March 2014,but after two years of trying we were at a point where we were willing to try anything. And I’m glad we came to Dr Dahiru, Because his pregnancy spell cast put us at ease, and I honestly believe him, and his gods really helped us as well, I am thankful for all he has done. contact him via email: arewaspecialisttemple@yahoo.com if you are trying to get a baby or want your lover back. he has powers to do it, he has done mine
Click to expand...
dear Cammilla

you and your husband need to repent of this asap, ask forgiveness ffrom God and if you ask the priest to say a special prayer to break contact with the evil spirits you contacted when you did this. exorcism type prayer, to get rid of the spirits that you contacted who are fallen angels and demons.

this is abomination to the real and Holy God and you need to renounce it and never go back to this group.
 
steve_b said:
By giving someone knowledge, (Paul gave us that list not me) then they are no longer ignorant after seeing that list. Besides, the Church accounts for ignorance providing it is innocent ignorance. Once a person has their fingerprints all over their ignorance, i.e. they are no longer innocently ignorant, because they take little effort to find out the truth, then they are fully culpable for what they do.
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Well of course
 
BeingSaved said:
Other gods are an abomination to our God. Our God gives babies to those who want them, even to women without a husband, ie Mary. God gave a baby to Sarah and Abraham who were a barren couple. Other couples too.

What you are suggesting is wrong for Christians. Is this a joke written here. Can someone report this?
Click to expand...
BeingSaved said:
dear Cammilla

you and your husband need to repent of this asap, ask forgiveness ffrom God and if you ask the priest to say a special prayer to break contact with the evil spirits you contacted when you did this. exorcism type prayer, to get rid of the spirits that you contacted who are fallen angels and demons.

this is abomination to the real and Holy God and you need to renounce it and never go back to this group.
Click to expand...
I reported it.

It is just spam.
 
A good examination of conscience should have a pretty decent list of many things that constitute grave sins.

And we mustn’t forget that similar sins can vary between grave and venial matter based on the specifics of the sin. An example: If you steal $20 from a millionaire, that probably isn’t gravely sinful, but stealing $20 from a poor widow would be.
 
steve_b said:
Do you have a reference [that we cannot know if a sin is mortal]?
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Sure:
For as no pious person ought to doubt the mercy of God, the merit of Christ and the virtue and efficacy of the sacraments, so each one, when he considers himself and his own weakness and indisposition, may have fear and apprehension concerning his own grace, since no one can know with the certainty of faith, which cannot be subject to error, that he has obtained the grace of God. Council of Trent, Seventh Session]
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If we cannot know whether we are saved, it means we cannot know if any of our sins are (or are not) mortal, since this knowledge would allow us to know the state of our salvation. In other words, if I could be sure Fred had committed a mortal sin, I would know for sure the state of his salvation. I cannot know that even for myself.
So all these passages are just maybe?
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Yup. There is absolutely no such thing as an act which is always mortally sinful, because the act itself is only a third of the equation. For a sin to be mortally culpable we must also take into account the person’s knowledge (of the sinful nature of the act) and intent (to willfully commit the act). If either knowledge or intent is imperfectly formed, the sin is not mortal no matter what it is. God alone knows our hearts (even more than we do) and he alone knows if our knowledge and intent are perfectly formed.
For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.” [CCC 1857]
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