MERGED: Immaculate Conception Holy Day in the USA and Obligation

[Pug]

As a follow up, I will mention too that this canon is the reason why you can attend a Mass in the Extraordinary Form of the Latin Rite which has different readings and texts (and maybe even a different feast) and still fulfill the obligation for a day of precept. You may also attend an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy on a day of precept, and their feasts typically don’t line up. If you attended the EF this past Sunday, you would not have been celebrating the Feast of Christ the King liturgically as were folks going to an Ordinary Form Mass; if you went to an Eastern Liturgy you’d be celebrating a different Sunday as well. But attendance at the liturgy is what satisfies the obligation, not attendance at a liturgy with texts that match the day of precept.

-ACEGC

Agreed. That’s what I was taught, that the particular readings read at the mass aren’t what matter, nor the rite, etc.

But I have a feeling that if I call and ask my new priest, I’ll get an answer similar to the one given by GRATEFULONEjim , which will involve me finding a parish somewhere other than my own with workable holy day hours. I’d rather attend at my own parish if it is really allowed. (hours don’t work for my family, unless we attend Sat eve and Sun morn).

 

[jediliz]

GO to Mass Friday the night before or early Saturday morning.

Saturday evening is for SUNDAY Mass.

 

[dans0622]

No one has addressed the part of my question yet about can my local bishop trump canon law and declare that the Saturday evening mass does not count for the Saturday holy day? Since it was the lead on a paper for a diocese, I wondered if what was happening was if the bishop was so declaring it, so that would trump canon law (but the reporter did not actually say that). In other words, can he make particular law for his diocese that you can’t go on Saturday evening to cover the Immaculate Conception?..

Hello,

Even if that statement came directly from the Bishop’s mouth/pen, it would not be binding since it (according to my understanding, of which I am rather confident) is contrary to the universal law. Canon 135.2: “a lower legislator cannot validly make a law which is contrary to that of a higher legislator.”

Dan

 

[FrDavid96]

Please read the entire post, because the 2nd half is important here.

This year, we have two obligatory Solemnities back-to-back.

Saturday is Dec. 8 The Immaculate Conception
Sunday is Dec. 9, the 2nd Sunday of Advent

(yes, everyone knows this, but since posts & threads get quoted and resurface years later, I felt the need for this little introduction)

The Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception begins at the time of Evening Prayer on Friday evening.

The 2nd Sunday of Advent begins at the time of Evening Prayer on Saturday evening–and at the same time, the feast of the Immaculate Conception ends.

Each solemnity carries one obligation to attend Mass, completely separate and distinct from each other. We have two obligations–there’s no way around this.

The obligation to attend Mass on the Immaculate Conception is fulfilled either on the day of the feast, or the evening before.

The claim (unfortunately often made on CAF) that canon law states that a day runs from midnight to midnight is simply untrue. I say again, it is untrue.

Canon law does say this
“Can. 202 §1. In law, a day is understood as a period consisting of 24 continuous hours and begins at midnight unless other provision is expressly made…”

Read that again “…unless other provision is expressly made”

Canon 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.

“The feast day itself” of the Immaculate Conception ends on Saturday evening. It does not continue to midnight. The reason is because the 2nd Sunday of Advent is ranked above the Immaculate Conception in the Church’s calendar—the higher ranked feast takes precedence. (See the Universal Norns on the Calendar)

In order to fulfill the obligation for the Immaculate Conception, one must attend Mass from Friday evening to Saturday afternoon (since Sunday begins at evening).

Attending Mass on Saturday evening fulfills the obligation for the 2nd Sunday of Advent. It does not fulfill the obligation for the Immaculate Conception.

This is not (note the negative) because the readings are different or the opening collect is different, or the hymns etc. etc. It’s because the day of the Immaculate Conception will have ended. This is not the same situation we often encounter when someone asks about a wedding Mass on Saturday at 7 PM or an ordination Mass on Sunday at 11 AM. It’s different because a Mass on Saturday evening is not a Mass on the Immaculate Conception. Note that it is not “on” the Immaculate Conception; instead of not “for” the Immaculate Conception.

What I’ve cited above is the canon law and the liturgical law of the Church.

Now, to continue with part 2.

The above is how the laws of the Church regulate the days. What follows is my opinion.

A person who attends only the Saturday evening Mass knowing that the Mass will be both for the 2nd Sunday of Advent and on the 2nd Sunday of Advent has not met the obligation for the Immaculate Conception.

However, a person who unknowingly or unwittingly attends the Mass on Saturday evening in an attempt to fulfill the Immaculate Conception obligation would not be at fault for missing Mass on the Holy Day. This might happen if the priest errs in the Mass schedule and celebrates the wrong Mass in the evening—the fault is that of the priest, not the attendee. Such a person would fulfill the Sunday obligation, but not the Holy Day obligation, but without fault.

If it is physically or morally impossible to attend Mass from Friday evening to Saturday afternoon, yet one is able (and does) attend Mass on Saturday evening and Sunday morning, that person would be excused from the Immaculate Conception obligation but fulfill the Sunday obligation.

 

[FrDavid96]

No one has addressed the part of my question yet about can my local bishop trump canon law and declare that the Saturday evening mass does not count for the Saturday holy day? Since it was the lead on a paper for a diocese, I wondered if what was happening was if the bishop was so declaring it, so that would trump canon law (but the reporter did not actually say that). In other words, can he make particular law for his diocese that you can’t go on Saturday evening to cover the Immaculate Conception?

(Remember, in my original post I was not trying to do a two for one. I plan to go Sunday as well).

Here’s the response. The bishop is not changing the laws of the Church—instead he’s applying (and enforcing) them. The 2nd Sunday of Advent begins at the time of First Vespers on Saturday evening. At that moment, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception ends; so a Mass at that time is not “on the day of” the Feast day.

So the direct answer to your question is “no, the bishop cannot trump canon law” but the extended answer is “that’s not what he’s attempting to do.”

 

[MissRose73]

I posted an earlier post on the same thing or similar question about this feast. I will go to Mass on Friday evening as my mother’s church is offering a Vigil Mass (and some churches do that in our area, some are doing Saturday morning for the holy day) to fulfill the obligation for Immaculate Conception. I will then either attend Saturday evening Mass or Sunday morning Mass for 2nd Sunday of Advent for my Sunday obligation.

 

[FrDavid96]

There is an instruction from the Congregation for Rites which MIGHT be addressing this issue. I’m having some problems with the Latin, and online translations aren’t helping much.

Perhaps someone better able to translate the Latin might be able to help here.

Here’s the original document
notitiae.ipsissima-verba.org/pdf/notitiae-1974-222-223.pdf

and here’s the Latin text typed-out

Instructio Eucharisticum mysterium, n. 28 statuit: « Sicubi ex concessione Apostolicae Sedis permittitur ut vespere sabbati praecedentis satisfieri possit praecepto de Missa participanda die dominica … celebretur Missa sicut in Calendario pro die dominica assignatur, homilia et oratione fidelium minime exclusis.

Quae omnia dicenda sunt etiam de Missa quae, eadem de causa, ad vesperam pridie diei festi de praecepto alicubi celebrari permittitur ».

Haec est norma generalis. Dubium tamen exurgit quando quaedam sollemnitas de praecepto sabbato vel feria II occurrit. Nam vespere primi diei festivi (sabbato vel dominica) occurrentia habetur inter duos dies liturgicos quia « celebratio dominicae et sollemnitatum incipit iam vespere diei praecedentis » (cf. Normae universales de anno liturgico et de calendario, n. 3), et in eadem celebratione alli conveniunt fideles ad satisfaciendum praecepto de die currenti et alii de die sequenti. Ita, v. gr. evenire potest ut vespere dominicae IV Adventus, quando haec incidit die 24 decembris, insimul habeatur Missa vespertina dominicae et Vigiliae Nativitatis Domini. Eodem modo, quando Nativitas Domini sabbato incidit, vespere concurrentia habetur inter Missam Nativitatis et Missam anticipatam de Sacra Familia.

Hi et similes casus solvi non possunt per normam universalem, quia necessitates pastorales et consuetudine [sic] fidelium diversae inveniuntur.

Quapropter sequentes indicationes dari possunt:

1. Principium generale pro celebratione Missae festivae diei de praecepto anticipatae vespere diei antecedentis illud est quod invenitur in n. 28 Instructionis Eucharisticum mysterium.
2. In casu occurrentiae inter dominicam et sollemnitatem, integritas celebrationis totius diei liturgici generatim melius obtineri potest applicando celebrationi Missae vespertinae ea quae statuuntur pro Vesperis, scilicet: « Si eodem die celebrandae sint vesperae Officii currentis et I Vesperae diei sequentis, praevalent vesperae celebrationis quae in tabula dierum liturgicorum superiorem obtinent locum; in casu autem paritatis vesperae diei currentis » (cf. Normae universales de anno liturgico et de calendario, n. 61).
3. In Vigilia sollemnitatum in quibus peculiaris Missa vigiliae habetur (Nativitas Domini, Nativitas S. Ioannis Baptistae, SS. Petrus et Paulus, Assumptio B. Mariae V.), haec dicatur etiamsi die dominica incidat.
4. Attentis adiunctis naturae pastoralis, praxis sequenda in ambitu dioecesano indicetur initio anni ab Ordinario loci in Calendario liturgico proprio, etiam si casus fert derogando iis quae supra dicta sunt, cum, ob rationes pastorales, praeferenda videtur celebratio unius alteriusve Missae.

 

[Don_Jackson]

If we understand that Jesus is the Bread of Life, this wouldn’t even be a question.

You never hear anyone say, “I ate yesterday, do I have to eat again today, or is it okay if I go hungry?”

 

[3DOCTORS]

I like the term “Holyday of Opportunity” a priest at one of my former parishes liked to use.

I think some of the confusion has arisen because the U.S. Bishops have sometimes dispensed the Holyday Obligation/Opportunity when it fell near a Sunday. If I had my druthers they would not do this but it’s not my job to tell them so, I’m just expressing a preference. I also (druthers again) would bring back celebration of the Ascension of Our Lord on a Thursday. :twocents:

 

[TimothyH]

Forget about canons and rules and girms. Just go to Mass both days.

More Mary. More Eucharist. More Jesus.

-Tim-

 

[Theophorus]

There is an instruction from the Congregation for Rites which MIGHT be addressing this issue. I’m having some problems with the Latin, and online translations aren’t helping much.

Perhaps someone better able to translate the Latin might be able to help here.

Here’s the original document
notitiae.ipsissima-verba.org/pdf/notitiae-1974-222-223.pdf

and here’s the Latin text typed-out

Instructio Eucharisticum mysterium, n. 28 statuit: « Sicubi ex concessione Apostolicae Sedis permittitur ut vespere sabbati praecedentis satisfieri possit praecepto de Missa participanda die dominica … celebretur Missa sicut in Calendario pro die dominica assignatur, homilia et oratione fidelium minime exclusis.

Quae omnia dicenda sunt etiam de Missa quae, eadem de causa, ad vesperam pridie diei festi de praecepto alicubi celebrari permittitur ».

Haec est norma generalis. Dubium tamen exurgit quando quaedam sollemnitas de praecepto sabbato vel feria II occurrit. Nam vespere primi diei festivi (sabbato vel dominica) occurrentia habetur inter duos dies liturgicos quia « celebratio dominicae et sollemnitatum incipit iam vespere diei praecedentis » (cf. Normae universales de anno liturgico et de calendario, n. 3), et in eadem celebratione alli conveniunt fideles ad satisfaciendum praecepto de die currenti et alii de die sequenti. Ita, v. gr. evenire potest ut vespere dominicae IV Adventus, quando haec incidit die 24 decembris, insimul habeatur Missa vespertina dominicae et Vigiliae Nativitatis Domini. Eodem modo, quando Nativitas Domini sabbato incidit, vespere concurrentia habetur inter Missam Nativitatis et Missam anticipatam de Sacra Familia.

Hi et similes casus solvi non possunt per normam universalem, quia necessitates pastorales et consuetudine [sic] fidelium diversae inveniuntur.

Quapropter sequentes indicationes dari possunt:

1. Principium generale pro celebratione Missae festivae diei de praecepto anticipatae vespere diei antecedentis illud est quod invenitur in n. 28 Instructionis Eucharisticum mysterium.
2. In casu occurrentiae inter dominicam et sollemnitatem, integritas celebrationis totius diei liturgici generatim melius obtineri potest applicando celebrationi Missae vespertinae ea quae statuuntur pro Vesperis, scilicet: « Si eodem die celebrandae sint vesperae Officii currentis et I Vesperae diei sequentis, praevalent vesperae celebrationis quae in tabula dierum liturgicorum superiorem obtinent locum; in casu autem paritatis vesperae diei currentis » (cf. Normae universales de anno liturgico et de calendario, n. 61).
3. In Vigilia sollemnitatum in quibus peculiaris Missa vigiliae habetur (Nativitas Domini, Nativitas S. Ioannis Baptistae, SS. Petrus et Paulus, Assumptio B. Mariae V.), haec dicatur etiamsi die dominica incidat.
4. Attentis adiunctis naturae pastoralis, praxis sequenda in ambitu dioecesano indicetur initio anni ab Ordinario loci in Calendario liturgico proprio, etiam si casus fert derogando iis quae supra dicta sunt, cum, ob rationes pastorales, praeferenda videtur celebratio unius alteriusve Missae.

The Latin would certainly back up FrDavid96

celebratio dominicae et sollemnitatum incipit iam vespere diei praecedentis

The celebration of the Sunday/Lords Day and Solemnities begins on the evening of the preceding day.

It is a reference to the “Normae universales de anno liturgico et de calendario”

This would seem to be the stipulation in Can. 202 §1. About “other provision is expressly made”. The Mass of Saturday evening is the Vigil of Sunday and not a Mass of the immaculate Conception as by then, liturgically speaking, the 8th of December is over.

The solution of TimothyH is the best one if possible. More Mass is always better

 

[Pug]

Forget about canons and rules and girms. Just go to Mass both days.

More Mary. More Eucharist. More Jesus.

-Tim-

Don Jackson:

If we understand that Jesus is the Bread of Life, this wouldn’t even be a question.

You never hear anyone say, “I ate yesterday, do I have to eat again today, or is it okay if I go hungry?”

I am going to go on both days. That has been my plan* all along*. I am not trying to weasel out of mass.

I strongly prefer to attend as a family, and not split up to different masses. That is my concern, and also that I meet the law, of course. But the law wins over anything I’d like, of course. I’ve read the official apologists here at CAF before and they have said that the Sat evening mass is fine for Immaculate Conception. Thus when I read the paper, I felt I needed to investigate.

If Fr. David and the diocesan paper are correct, and this is in fact universal law, then the AAA apologist perhaps ought to delete or edit or something the post. (note it is an older post). I probably read it back then and followed its advice last time this came up.

Do I email the apologist, perhaps, if we decide the apologist is incorrect?

 

[Pug]

I like the term “Holyday of Opportunity” a priest at one of my former parishes liked to use.

I think some of the confusion has arisen because the U.S. Bishops have sometimes dispensed the Holyday Obligation/Opportunity when it fell near a Sunday. If I had my druthers they would not do this but it’s not my job to tell them so, I’m just expressing a preference. I also (druthers again) would bring back celebration of the Ascension of Our Lord on a Thursday. :twocents:

I, too, miss Ascension Thursday as a real Thursday.

 

[TimothyH]

I am going to go on both days. That has been my plan* all along*. I am not trying to weasel out of mass.

I strongly prefer to attend as a family, and not split up to different masses. That is my concern, and also that I meet the law, of course. But the law wins over anything I’d like, of course. I’ve read the official apologists here at CAF before and they have said that the Sat evening mass is fine for Immaculate Conception. Thus when I read the paper, I felt I needed to investigate.

If Fr. David and the diocesan paper are correct, and this is in fact universal law, then the AAA apologist perhaps ought to delete or edit or something the post. (note it is an older post). I probably read it back then and followed its advice last time this came up.

Do I email the apologist, perhaps, if we decide the apologist is incorrect?

I understand. My daughter was invited to sleepovers on both Friday and Saturday nights. Then there are basketball games, and a whole host of other activities, then Father says he would like adult altar servers at such-and-such Mass and that isn’t the Mass I wanted to go to…

Next thing you know its like trying to stuff ten pounds of potatoes into a five pound bag. I was planning on going to both days myself, and something else has to give.

-Tim-

 

[porthos11]

A Catholic paper says on the top of the front page that:
This year, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception holy day of obligation falls on a Saturday. But your Saturday evening Mass will not fulfill your obligation.

So far as I know, canon law does not say this (canon 1248). I ought to be able to use any legitimate mass on Saturday to fulfill a Saturday Holy Day. Of course on Sunday I must go to mass for Sunday obligation. No two for one deals.

Is this a case of the bishop having announced a special rule for his diocese that trumps canon law? The article did not report it as coming specially from the bishop, so it may just be some reporter’s word choice.

Thoughts?

(This post applies to the USA.)

The vigil Mass said on Saturday evening is not a Saturday Mass. It’s a Sunday Mass. You have to attend either a Friday evening Mass,(vigil Mass for Saturday) or a Saturday daytime Mass to fulfill your obligation for the Holy Day, and your regular time for Mass for your Sunday obligation. Enjoy your time with our Lord that weekend.

Both the paper and this quote are incorrect. The Saturday evening Mass DOES fulfill the Immaculate Conception, but one does need to attend the Sunday Mass to fulfill the Sunday obligation. You will however attend two identical Masses, i.e. Sunday.

Or one can attend a Saturday morning Mass for the Immaculate Conception and the Saturday evening Mass for Sunday. That’s fine as well.

Or you can attend a Friday evening Mass for Immaculate Conception and Saturday evening Mass for Sunday.

The readings, propers, collects, etc. are irrelevant and do not impact one’s fulfillment of the obligation.

What kind of celebration is held is a matter of liturgical law, but one’s obligation is a matter of Canon Law and for Canon Law, a day runs midnight to midnight.

Further, Canon Law allows the fulfillment in any Catholic rite (which should include Eastern rites that don’t even observe the holy day).

And last of all, Church law is always interpreted to favour the faithful.

 

[dans0622]

There is an instruction from the Congregation for Rites which MIGHT be addressing this issue. I’m having some problems with the Latin, and online translations aren’t helping much.

Perhaps someone better able to translate the Latin might be able to help here.

Here’s the original document
notitiae.ipsissima-verba.org/pdf/notitiae-1974-222-223.pdf

and here’s the Latin text typed-out

…

Father,

It is instructive to note that this document says “et in eadem celebratione alli conveniunt fideles ad satisfaciendum praecepto de die currenti et alii de die sequenti.” Some of the faithful attend a Mass (such as one which will occur on the evening of December 8, 2012) and fulfill the precept of the current day and others, at the same celebration, the precept of the following day.

Dan

 

[FrDavid96]

I am going to go on both days. That has been my plan* all along*. I am not trying to weasel out of mass.

I strongly prefer to attend as a family, and not split up to different masses. That is my concern, and also that I meet the law, of course. But the law wins over anything I’d like, of course. I’ve read the official apologists here at CAF before and they have said that the Sat evening mass is fine for Immaculate Conception. Thus when I read the paper, I felt I needed to investigate.

If Fr. David and the diocesan paper are correct, and this is in fact universal law, then the AAA apologist perhaps ought to delete or edit or something the post. (note it is an older post). I probably read it back then and followed its advice last time this came up.

Do I email the apologist, perhaps, if we decide the apologist is incorrect?

First of all, I do understand that you’re not “trying to weasel out of Mass” and hope that others do as well. There’s nothing wrong with a nice polite discussion about this because it’s certainly a confusing issue.

In the past few days (because of this and similar threads) I’ve checked the communications from my own diocese as well as those of several dioceses around the U.S. They all come to the same conclusion.

The Feast of the Immaculate Conception ends and the 2nd Sunday of Advent begins on Saturday evening. A Catholic must attend Mass before Sat. evening in order to fulfill the precept of attending Mass for the feast day.

Chicago archchicago.org/bulletin/

Cleveland dioceseofcleveland.org/index.php?view=details&id=124%3Aimm-conception-holy-day&option=com_eventlist&Itemid=108

Youngstown doy.org/images/Communique2012/nov.%202012%20communique%20pdf.pdf

 

[FrDavid96]

Father,

It is instructive to note that this document says “et in eadem celebratione alli conveniunt fideles ad satisfaciendum praecepto de die currenti et alii de die sequenti.” Some of the faithful attend a Mass (such as one which will occur on the evening of December 8, 2012) and fulfill the precept of the current day and others, at the same celebration, the precept of the following day.

Dan

Dan,

Thanks for the Latin translation.

What I’m concerned about is that the original letter dates from the 1917 Code of Canon law, in which the evening Masses were “anticipated Masses” for the next day. Under the current code, that no longer applies as the day of a solemnity actually “begins” in the evening.

Even though I was the one to post the information, my concern (but not a definite conclusion) is that “option” or “opportunity” for the faithful to fulfill either obligation by attending a Mass in the “overlapping” timeframe of evening-before, might no longer be the case in the current Code, even though that apparently was the case in the '17 Code.

The reason why I feel I can say this is because I’ve checked several US dioceses (more or less at random) webpages and every one that I can find which addresses the issue all come to the same conclusion that attending Mass on Saturday evening (of this year) does not fulfill the Immaculate Conception precept. Could all of those bishops be wrong? Yes, it’s possible, but at the same time I feel it’s rather unlikely that they would all come to the same incorrect conclusion. Of course, I did not check with every diocese in the US. What I have is only a sampling, not a consensus; and “absence of proof is not proof of absence.” But I cannot find (nor has anyone yet posted) information from any diocese where the bishop comes to a different conclusion.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Here is one more example with the same conclusion.

Saturday, December 8th is the Feast of the Immaculate Conception

Saturday, December 8th is the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, a Holy Day of Obligation.

Masses for the Holy Day will be celebrated on Friday, December 7th at 7:30pm and Saturday, December 8th at 6:15am, 9am and 12 noon.

The 5:30 Mass on December 8th will be the Vigil Mass for Sunday.

This is from my parish website. Since one of our priests has served as the Bishop’s MC, I’m sure this is our Bishop’s conclusion also.

 

[Chatter163]

The Holy See decided in 1990 that the Second Sunday of Advent is never trumped so next year the Immaculate Conception gets moved to Monday 9th.

Actually that was decided when the missal of Paul VI was promulgated in 1969. It has been that way ever since. (Previously, the Extraordinary Form kalendar did celebrate the Imamculate Conception on Sunday.)

Wow, I had no idea that it would be transferred to Monday. I thought it would basically come before anything else given that it’s our patronal feast day. Interesting. So do you think that next year on December 8 the hymns/homily/bulletin, etc. won’t really have to do with the Immaculate Conception? Or do you think most parishes will just do it anyway?

It will certainly not be the first time since 1970 that the Immaculate Conception has fallen on a Sunday. It also did in 1974, 1985, 1991, 1996 and 2002. In each of those years the feast was transferred to the next day, as well. It is a fairly routine occurrence.