MERGED: Is the Pope still a cardinal after he is elected?

[Filii_Dei]

PJM, I believed you are confusing titles of honour with titles of sacramental character, as well as titles of ecclesiastical status.

The titles of deacon, priest and bishop - insofar as they are used in contrast to each other - are sacramental, in that they describe the spiritual character of that individual - that being of deacon, priest and bishop. From the Pope to the lowliest Bishop of Whatiscalled, they are all of equal sacramental standing as they are all ordained bishops. Likewise, all priests are equally priests, and all deacons are equally deacons.

Ecclesiastical titles, however, are a different matter. An archbishop outranks a suffragan bishop of his province, and has certain responsibilities of oversight, even though both have been ordained equally as bishops. He is not an archbishop out of ‘honour’, but because he has these canonical responsibilities as the head of his ecclesiastical province. Likewise, the Pope has the canonical power to overrule other bishops, especially when a appeal is made to him, because he has this canonical primacy granted to him. If you merely mean that the word ‘Pope’ is an honorific then you may have an argument, but it is not true that there is ‘no difference’ between the Pope or any other bishop.

What is truly considered an ‘honorary title’, would probably be the various titular sees which auxiliary bishops and vicar apostolics hold. These are titles to sees which no longer function as dioceses, and are used more for the purpose of giving the bishop in question a see to his name. They hold no actual power over the diocese.

 

[Digitonomy]

Sorry to resurrect this twelve month old thread, but it is unexpectedly topical this week. And there is a new and considered opinion on this issue from respected canonist Ed Peters in his blog.

Now, prior to his election as pope in 2005, Joseph Ratzinger was a cardinal in the Roman Church and possessed certain rights and duties as a cardinal. I am not aware that he resigned that office (though he vacated his suburbicarian see of Velletri-Segni, which is now held by Cdl Arinze), so, I am thinking that, upon resigning the papacy, Benedict XVI simply resumes his place among the College of Cardinals, having never left it, and of course, would be a regular member of the College of Bishops (c. 336).

If the pope simply resumes his status as cardinal, a number of sticky problems are avoided: for example, he automatically falls under the exclusive jurisdiction of the next pope (c. 1405 § 1, 2º), and he would likewise enjoy faculties for sacramental confession everywhere (c. 967 § 1).

 

[R_C]

So here it goes…my understanding is that after retirement, we no longer can use the name Benedict XVI, but rather that he will again be officially referred to as Cardinal Ratzinger…can anyone clarify this (that’s if there is an actual clarification…this may be part of the “uncharted waters” we’ve heard of…).

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

So here it goes…my understanding is that after retirement, we no longer can use the name Benedict XVI, but rather that he will again be officially referred to as Cardinal Ratzinger…can anyone clarify this (that’s if there is an actual clarification…this may be part of the “uncharted waters” we’ve heard of…).

I would hope we can still call him Benedict; after all, we still call his predecessor John Paul II.

 

[RocketRM]

Sounds like His Holiness will be known going forward as:

Joseph Aloisius Ratzinger, Bishop of Rome, emeritus

(source: Greg Burke, Vatican’s senior communications adviser).

 

[R_C]

I would hope we can still call him Benedict; after all, we still call his predecessor John Paul II.

But his predecessor passed away being a Pope, and he will cease to be a Pope before that time arrives…I don’t have a specific preference, I am just curious to know if there’s any guideline around there

 

[Bl_Pope_Pius_IX]

Sounds like His Holiness will be known going forward as:

Joseph Aloisius Ratzinger, Bishop of Rome, emeritus

(source: Greg Burke, Vatican’s senior communications adviser).

Outrageous.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

I hope he doesn’t mind if I insist on calling him Benny(dict XVI).

 

[Vouthon]

I read in the Times newspaper this morning that Lombardi said he would be retaining the name “Benedict XVI”. However other reports contradict this, so I’m seeing very confusing things from the media I’m not sure anyone is certain at the minute tbh.

 

[Mumbles140]

I’m sure the way he is formally addressed (both in person and in writing) will use the Bishop Emeritus title. However, for the sake of future conversations, I cannot see myself referring to him as anything other than Pope Benedict XVI, in the same way I wouldn’t refer to Pope John Paul II as ‘The Late Pope John Paul II’.

 

[LegoGE1947]

I’m sure the way he is formally addressed (both in person and in writing) will use the Bishop Emeritus title. However, for the sake of future conversations, I cannot see myself referring to him as anything other than Pope Benedict XVI, in the same way I wouldn’t refer to Pope John Paul II as ‘The Late Pope John Paul II’.

This is definitely uncharted “waters”. We haven’t had a Pope resign from office for about 600 years. What happened when Pope Celestine resigned? What name did he go by after leaving office?

 

[Vouthon]

This is definitely uncharted “waters”. We haven’t had a Pope resign from office for about 600 years. What happened when Pope Celestine resigned? What name did he go by after leaving office?

Well his entry in the Martyrologium Romanum (he is a canonised saint) for 19 May reads as follows:

Ad Castrum Fumorense prop Alatrium in Latio, natalis sancti Petri Caelestini, qui, cum vitam eremeticam in Aprutio ageret, fama sanctitatis et miraculorum clarus, octogenarius Romanus Pontifex electus est, assumpto nomine Caelestini Quinti, sed eodem anno munere se abdicavit et solitudinem recedere maluit. At Castrum Fumorense near Alatri in Lazio

the birth of Saint Peter Celestine, who, when leading the life of a hermit in Abruzzo, being famous for his sanctity and miracles, was elected Roman Pontiff as an octogenarian, assumed the name Celestine V, but abandoned his office that same year and preferred to return to solitude.

“Peter Celestine”, would be equivalent to “Josef Benedict” Or it may be that “Celestine” refers order to his order of the Celestines. In that case he is referred to by his baptismal, birth name. I don’t think so though, because his order weren’t called “Celestines” until he adopted the papal name “Celestine V”.

I don’t know if that is a mere technicality. Everyone just refers to him as Saint Pope Celestine V.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Well his entry in the Martyrologium Romanum (he is a canonised saint) for 19 May reads as follows:

“Peter Celestine”, would be equivalent to “Josef Benedict” Or it may be that “Celestine” refers to his order to his order of the Celestines. In that case he is referred to by his baptismal, birth name.

I don’t know if that is a mere technicality. Everyone just refers to him as Saint Pope Celestine V.

Thanks:thumbsup:

 

[malphono]

I don’t know if that is a mere technicality. Everyone just refers to him as Saint Pope Celestine V.

Or, as in the Martyrology itself, S Peter Celestine.

In the current situation, I believe that, while he is still with us, he will not use or be formally known by his Papal name. However, when he is no longer with us, he will be again known and go down in history as Benedict XVI.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Or, as in the Martyrology itself, S Peter Celestine.

In the current situation, I believe that, while he is still with us, he will not use or be formally known by his Papal name. However, when he is no longer with us, he will be again known and go down in history as Benedict XVI.

I guess we will just have to let the earth take a few whirls and see what happens:shrug:

 

[YoungTradCath]

Or, as in the Martyrology itself, S Peter Celestine.

In the current situation, I believe that, while he is still with us, he will not use or be formally known by his Papal name. However, when he is no longer with us, he will be again known and go down in history as Benedict XVI.

This is what I think is officially most likely, but I know people will still call him Benedict regardless.

 

[DaveBj]

This is what I think is officially most likely, but I know people will still call him Benedict regardless.

Probably. It’s going to be a job of work to get people to call him something other than what they’re used to calling him (and still want to call him). Certainly when referring to things that he did while he was Pope it would be correct to call him by his current name.

 

[malphono]

Probably. It’s going to be a job of work to get people to call him something other than what they’re used to calling him (and still want to call him).

It shouldn’t be all that difficult since, from the way it sounds, he won’t be making public appearances.

Certainly when referring to things that he did while he was Pope it would be correct to call him by his current name.

Yes, of course.

 

[svid2]

Somewhere I read that he will be Cardinal Josef Ratzinger. After all, he will still be a Cardinal, though he’s too old to vote in the conclave.

 

[Vico]

The retired Cardinal-Patriarch H.E. Nasrallah Sfeir is called Patriarch emeritus of Antioch of the Maronites. He is 92 years old.

Perhaps something similar will occur for H.H. Pope Benedict XVI?

gcatholic.com/hierarchy/data/cardJP2-6.htm#155