MERGED: Kneeling during consecration?

[Hereswith]

Wow - as a convert to Catholicism, I had no idea there were Catholic churches without kneelers.

One of the wonderful things about being Catholic for me is kneeling. It is a totally humble act. A total, sort of humbling yourself before God. I never knew such a feeling as a Protestant. Humility is a big part of Catholicism, and a part that I respect and cherish very much. I can’t imagine not being able to kneel to pray.

So if you value kneeling and want to, do it. Your embarrassment is only false pride, right? Is it not more important to honor God than to spare your pride? Think of the example you are providing, giving yourself up to God for this use.

When I am visiting a Protestant church, however, I would never kneel, because that would be to call attention to myself in worship. Not good. So if you are the only one kneeling - you might rethink it. But in a Catholic church - kneeling is GOOD.

 

[MarkThompson]

Wow - as a convert to Catholicism, I had no idea there were Catholic churches without kneelers.

Here’s one with no kneelers:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

What!? No pews either! Guess cold hard marble will have to do.

 

[Canto]

General Instruction of the Roman Missal

GIRM 43 But they should kneel at the consecration, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration…

Where it is the practice for the people to remain kneeling after the Sanctus until the end of the Eucharistic Prayer and before Communion when the priest says: Ecce Agnus Dei (This is the Lamb of God), this practice is laudably retained.

 

[Don9of11]

should kneel at the consecration

, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present,** no kneeler’s ** or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration…

They should revise this text to include no kneelers. At my parish where we have kneelers less than half kneel.

 

[roseb]

Thank you everyone for your replies! They reinforced what I already thought: That I should kneel.

Wow - as a convert to Catholicism, I had no idea there were Catholic churches without kneelers.

Until I went to this church I also did not know that there were Catholic churches without kneelers.

 

[Canto]

They should revise this text to include no kneelers. At my parish where we have kneelers less than half kneel.

Perhaps the text should say new churches must have kneelers and where possible (space wise) existing churches should install or re-install them.

 

[Hereswith]

Thanks MarkThompson for the photo. After looking at it, it occurred to me that I have indeed been in churches in France where there were no kneelers. I was told, however, that the people do kneel on the floor, or bring pillows to worship (as incidentally they did in the Middle Ages).

I was assuming that when whoever it was said there were no kneelers in some churches they were talking about the U.S. I may have been assuming wrong.

 

[MarkThompson]

Thanks MarkThompson for the photo. After looking at it, it occurred to me that I have indeed been in churches in France where there were no kneelers. I was told, however, that the people do kneel on the floor, or bring pillows to worship (as incidentally they did in the Middle Ages).

I was assuming that when whoever it was said there were no kneelers in some churches they were talking about the U.S. I may have been assuming wrong.

You’re welcome; of course I was being a bit facetious posting a picture of St. Peter’s But it’s worth being aware of, I guess, so that we don’t accidentally think, “But the Church would never expect people to kneel on the floor!”

 

[benedictgal]

You’re welcome; of course I was being a bit facetious posting a picture of St. Peter’s But it’s worth being aware of, I guess, so that we don’t accidentally think, “But the Church would never expect people to kneel on the floor!”

However, it is interesting to note that during the telecasts of the Papal Masses from St. Peter’s Basilica (and square), you will see quite a few of the faithful kneeling. Maybe they have folding chairs with kneelers in the back.

 

[Patchunky]

General Instruction of the Roman Missal

GIRM 43 But they should kneel at the consecration, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration…

Where it is the practice for the people to remain kneeling after the Sanctus until the end of the Eucharistic Prayer and before Communion when the priest says: Ecce Agnus Dei (This is the Lamb of God), this practice is laudably retained.

And the Holy Fathers of the Ecumenical Council of Nicea in 325 decreed in Cannon 20 that there is to be NO kneeling on Sundays and NO kneeling AT ALL from Easter Sunday through Pentecost…

 

[Canto]

And the Holy Fathers of the Ecumenical Council of Nicea in 325 decreed in Cannon 20 that there is to be NO kneeling on Sundays and NO kneeling AT ALL from Easter Sunday through Pentecost…

It seems good to stand for uniformity said the council

Acts 20 says

36 And when he had said these things, kneeling down, he prayed with them all.

Rom:14:11 For it is written: As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me and every tongue shall confess to God.

Eph:3:14 For this cause I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Phil:2:10 That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth:

 

[bmadamsberry]

I was at the Papal Mass just a few weeks ago for Easter Mass. It was cold, rainy (and I DO mean rain. It was pouring. Interestingly, it stop right at the consecration and began raining again right at the end of Mass). Anyway, there was noone that I saw kneeling for the consecration. Rather, most people just stood.

I personally think that it’s best to follow what everyone else in the Church is doing when visiting a parish. During Mass is not the time, I think, to be making statements. Do that afterwards. Most people I’ve met that go against the crowd at Mass, such as maybe kneeling when everyone else stands, tend to be people that think of themselves as matyers and the holy of holy. I’m studying abroad in Scotland right now, and everyone here kneels from almost the same time in the US throughout the entire rest of the Mass. I follow what they do.

Anyway, that’s my own personal opinion.

 

[Canto]

I was at the Papal Mass just a few weeks ago for Easter Mass. It was cold, rainy (and I DO mean rain. It was pouring. Interestingly, it stop right at the consecration and began raining again right at the end of Mass). Anyway, there was noone that I saw kneeling for the consecration. Rather, most people just stood.

Was the Mass outside or inside?

I personally think that it’s best to follow what everyone else in the Church is doing when visiting a parish. During Mass is not the time, I think, to be making statements. Do that afterwards. Most people I’ve met that go against the crowd at Mass, such as maybe kneeling when everyone else stands, tend to be people that think of themselves as matyers and the holy of holy. I’m studying abroad in Scotland right now, and everyone here kneels from almost the same time in the US throughout the entire rest of the Mass. I follow what they do.

Anyway, that’s my own personal opinion.

I thinks its best to follow what the Church says
The US and Australian GIRM says to kneel
The Latin says to kneel too
Obviously if you are frail etc it says to stand and bow at the consecration
I don’t think people who kneel are trying to be martyers or think that they are holier than thou
I kneel because we are supposed to, I’m able to, and I personally find it more appropriate
At the name of Christ every knee should bend - how much more in his actual presence

The GIRM does say a common posutre is a sign of unity - and the common posture is to kneel.

 

[benedictgal]

Was the Mass outside or inside?

I thinks its best to follow what the Church says
The US and Australian GIRM says to kneel
The Latin says to kneel too
Obviously if you are frail etc it says to stand and bow at the consecration
I don’t think people who kneel are trying to be martyers or think that they are holier than thou
I kneel because we are supposed to, I’m able to, and I personally find it more appropriate
At the name of Christ every knee should bend - how much more in his actual presence

The GIRM does say a common posutre is a sign of unity - and the common posture is to kneel.

Great post!!!

 

[bmadamsberry]

I thinks its best to follow what the Church says
The US and Australian GIRM says to kneel
The Latin says to kneel too
Obviously if you are frail etc it says to stand and bow at the consecration
I don’t think people who kneel are trying to be martyers or think that they are holier than thou
I kneel because we are supposed to, I’m able to, and I personally find it more appropriate
At the name of Christ every knee should bend - how much more in his actual presence

The GIRM does say a common posutre is a sign of unity - and the common posture is to kneel.

Well, here’s a case in point: At the Mass at my college, there are about 30 students who attend Mass. Because it is a Protestant college (it’s not affiliated with any denomination, but its mindset is certainly Protestant), there is no Catholic chapel for us to celebrate in (I’m slowly trying to talk the archdiocese into building us a small chapel). Therefore the pews are built in a way that not only discourages kneeling, but also reception (the far left and right side of the pews are attatched to the wall. So after you receive communion you have to try to be reverant while squeezing inbetween people that are in line to receive communion). Anyway, we all stand from the Creed to after the reception of the Eucharist. If we knelt, not only are there kneelers but one’s back would be bent in an almost impossible and obviously painful way (because of the back of the pew in front of you). There is one person, however, who still kneels. I support her in what she is trying to do in theory, but what she is doing in practice is draws everyone’s attention over to her while she kneels (one can’t help it, because it is a movement in a small chapel). This distracts people, which shouldn’t be done even for a few minutes. Furthermore as the president of the club, I have had a few of the memebers come to me and ask if they were less holy for not kneeling.
So, there are cases where it is better to do as the rest of the Church does than to kneel. Most especially when it would draw undue attention to you.

 

[Canto]

Well, here’s a case in point: At the Mass at my college, there are about 30 students who attend Mass. Because it is a Protestant college (it’s not affiliated with any denomination, but its mindset is certainly Protestant), there is no Catholic chapel for us to celebrate in (I’m slowly trying to talk the archdiocese into building us a small chapel). Therefore the pews are built in a way that not only discourages kneeling, but also reception (the far left and right side of the pews are attatched to the wall. So after you receive communion you have to try to be reverant while squeezing inbetween people that are in line to receive communion). Anyway, we all stand from the Creed to after the reception of the Eucharist. If we knelt, not only are there kneelers but one’s back would be bent in an almost impossible and obviously painful way (because of the back of the pew in front of you). There is one person, however, who still kneels. I support her in what she is trying to do in theory, but what she is doing in practice is draws everyone’s attention over to her while she kneels (one can’t help it, because it is a movement in a small chapel). This distracts people, which shouldn’t be done even for a few minutes. Furthermore as the president of the club, I have had a few of the memebers come to me and ask if they were less holy for not kneeling.
So, there are cases where it is better to do as the rest of the Church does than to kneel. Most especially when it would draw undue attention to you.

Your average Parish does not have this problem however

If people find the lady distracting perhaps they should focus more on Christ and less on her

I find it hard to believe that one person kneeling could so be distracting. Maybe if she was talking throughout the Mass or constantly moving around and fidgiting then that may be distracting.

 

[bmadamsberry]

Your average Parish does not have this problem however

If people find the lady distracting perhaps they should focus more on Christ and less on her

I find it hard to believe that one person kneeling could so be distracting. Maybe if she was talking throughout the Mass or constantly moving around and fidgiting then that may be distracting.

It’s not an issue of “maybe they should focus more on Christ and less on her”. It’s normal for one’s attention to be distracted, at least for a moment, when there is something out of the ordinary or some movement that is out of the ordinary (I say out of the ordinary not in reference to kneeling not being ordinary, but rather in reference to conformity).
To me, the issue in this particular case is when does uniformity take the place of kneeling.

I agree that the average Parish does not have this problem of space or no kneelers, but there are some that do.

 

[franklinf]

Well, here’s a case in point: At the Mass at my college, there are about 30 students who attend Mass. Because it is a Protestant college (it’s not affiliated with any denomination, but its mindset is certainly Protestant), there is no Catholic chapel for us to celebrate in (I’m slowly trying to talk the archdiocese into building us a small chapel). Therefore the pews are built in a way that not only discourages kneeling, but also reception (the far left and right side of the pews are attatched to the wall. So after you receive communion you have to try to be reverant while squeezing inbetween people that are in line to receive communion). Anyway, we all stand from the Creed to after the reception of the Eucharist. If we knelt, not only are there kneelers but one’s back would be bent in an almost impossible and obviously painful way (because of the back of the pew in front of you). There is one person, however, who still kneels. I support her in what she is trying to do in theory, but what she is doing in practice is draws everyone’s attention over to her while she kneels (one can’t help it, because it is a movement in a small chapel). This distracts people, which shouldn’t be done even for a few minutes. Furthermore as the president of the club, I have had a few of the memebers come to me and ask if they were less holy for not kneeling.
So, there are cases where it is better to do as the rest of the Church does than to kneel. Most especially when it would draw undue attention to you.

Why not just go to a Catholic Church?

 

[bmadamsberry]

Why not just go to a Catholic Church?

Because it’s important to develop a sense of a Catholic community for Catholic students in college, especially in such a secular and relativistic world like ours. There is no better place or way to grow stronger in community than Mass. Because the priests assigned to us is based at another college (about 1 hour away), we do go to the local parish for Holy Days of Obligation.
In no way is this group anything but dynamic. We have monthly adoration, and we’re hoping to turn that into adoration every other week. Like I said, we have Mass on Sundays, and we hope to add Mass on Mondays as well (in one of the meeting room at our college). This year we’ve started praying on Thursday mornings (taken from the Liturgy of the Hours), and this coming year we hope to add a volunteer/service day once a month as opposed to once every other month. We have Lectio Davina every Monday, and last year we went through the Theology of the Body. We do many other particular things, such as Operation Christmas Child, Archbishop’s Annual Appeal, etc., but those are too numerous to go into. All of this, by-the-way, as a totally student run organization with no funds from the Archdiocese. We have 60 members on our roster, and about an average of 30 attend Mass. Most of those students don’t have cars, and some are only ‘convieniant Catholics’, and so some of them wouldn’t attend Mass if it wasn’t on campus (but that’s only a small minority. Most of the CSA members would love to have Daily Mass). If you can’t tell, I’m proud of these students and what they do.

This is way off the OP’s topic, however, but I don’t mind continuing it if you have any other questions.

 

[bmadamsberry]

The lady distracting perhaps they should focus more on Christ and less on her

I find it hard to believe that one person kneeling could so be distracting. Maybe if she was talking throughout the Mass or constantly moving around and fidgiting then that may be distracting.

However, I would like to point one thing out. I, personally, have a problem with judging people. I don’t try to, but often it comes as a quick thought that I have to try and supress. As a result, it might be more distracting to me than it might be to you. That’s why I posted about the few CSA members that have come up to me saying something about the girl that kneels, to show myself as much as to show you that it did bother other people.

(the whole kneeling things, by-the-way, isn’t because we don’t want to. We want to kneel, but there’s just no possible way to really do it for most of the members and still be able to consentrate on Mass because of the pain/discomfort)