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BebedeJesus
Guest
Of course you’d have difficulty envisioning Christ in any way other than the mystical way he has been presented f/ over 2,000 yrs. He was NOT poor! If so, why did he have a treasurer???
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BJRumph
Guest
Actually, the Bible is quite clear that when Christ returns, there* will* be an undeniable sign that he has done so. One that even the unbelievers will see and believe and know that it is Him.
Oh, wait… You think there is a true and a false gospel mixed into the Bible?
I apologize, I had written him and you off as just another ultra-fundamentalist with some new (old actually) spin to sell.
Now I realize you are just the newest incarnation of the gnostic movement.
Sorry for the confusion.
So, which parts of the Bible are the real ones, and which are the false? While I am incredibly sceptical, I am serious in desiring to see what you consider to be the true gospel.
Thanks.
Oh, wait… You think there is a true and a false gospel mixed into the Bible?
I apologize, I had written him and you off as just another ultra-fundamentalist with some new (old actually) spin to sell.
Now I realize you are just the newest incarnation of the gnostic movement.
Sorry for the confusion.
So, which parts of the Bible are the real ones, and which are the false? While I am incredibly sceptical, I am serious in desiring to see what you consider to be the true gospel.
Thanks.
A
asteroid
Guest
Lots of people claim to be Jesus.
The pastor of my former church used to work for a computer company on the South coast of England. One of his close friends there suddenly announced one day that he was Jesus and quit his job.
He now lives on the Isle of Wight and has hundreds of followers who have all sold their homes to follow him.
All these cases are very sad for all sorts of reasons.
In the UK a famous case was David Icke. He progressed from footballer to be the Son of God, wrote a book, made some prophecies and made a fortune in the process. Of course all the prophecies failed to come true and the Isle of Man hasn’t sunk into the sea. You would think with the false prophecies that no one would listen to him now. But no. He still runs sold out conferences that are very expensive to attend. And that shows something sad about the willingness of humans to believe.
The pastor of my former church used to work for a computer company on the South coast of England. One of his close friends there suddenly announced one day that he was Jesus and quit his job.
He now lives on the Isle of Wight and has hundreds of followers who have all sold their homes to follow him.
All these cases are very sad for all sorts of reasons.
In the UK a famous case was David Icke. He progressed from footballer to be the Son of God, wrote a book, made some prophecies and made a fortune in the process. Of course all the prophecies failed to come true and the Isle of Man hasn’t sunk into the sea. You would think with the false prophecies that no one would listen to him now. But no. He still runs sold out conferences that are very expensive to attend. And that shows something sad about the willingness of humans to believe.
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sea_oat
Guest
I was wondering that myself.
S
sea_oat
Guest
By the way, are you joking? I just have to make sure.Of course you’d have difficulty envisioning Christ in any way other than the mystical way he has been presented f/ over 2,000 yrs. He was NOT poor! If so, why did he have a treasurer???
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BebedeJesus
Guest
None of us have sold our homes or anything…we live normal lives. The difference is we understand that with one offering he made us Perfect, we are complete in Him and are Prosperous…I for one see myself and my family happy and I thank Him f/ opening our spiritual eyes.
Blessed with all spiritual blessings.
B
BJRumph
Guest
ditto. My scepticism is growing, and has added the expectation of stability to the list of doubts.
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BJRumph
Guest
B;
It is great that you think your happy and all, really it is. However, many followers of such gurus claim the same thing, not least among them are the mormons.
It is great that you are happy; but worldly satisfaction is not really a valid indicator of any “Christian” faith.
It is great that you think your happy and all, really it is. However, many followers of such gurus claim the same thing, not least among them are the mormons.
It is great that you are happy; but worldly satisfaction is not really a valid indicator of any “Christian” faith.
M
mystified
Guest
The Los Ángeles Times once ran a full-page ad signed by "Jesús Christ. The non-recalled copies of that edition are worth a forture
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The Bible repeatedly warns of false prophets. It also promises that when He does return, there will be no doubt. He didn’t charge large sums of money for his message 2,000 years ago, and I don’t suppose He’ll pass the basket when He returns.
.The Bible repeatedly warns of false prophets. It also promises that when He does return, there will be no doubt. He didn’t charge large sums of money for his message 2,000 years ago, and I don’t suppose He’ll pass the basket when He returns.
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BebedeJesus
Guest
I understand that sarcasm is the only way you know how to get your point across and that’s cute but if you read back you’ll find I NEVER stated there was a true and a false…
Well, the belief the Jews follow is called Circumsicion. This is the gospel that was given to the Jews also known as the Law of Moses, as read in John 7:22.
Now, the Bible also states that this Gospel was made for all (not only the Jews) BEFORE the cross. What purpose did the law serve (circumsicion)? In Galatians 3:19 & 25, it explains that it was necessary because of transgression. We were kept under guard by law BUT when faith came, we are no longer under a tutor which is law (circumsicion) .
In Galatians 2:7-9, we read that Peter was given the gospel of Circumsicion and Paul was given the gospel of Uncircumsicion which is for the Gentiles as we read in Ephesians 3:6-7 (this is everyone born NOT Jewish).
Why does the Bible state that Circumsicion was to be followed BEFORE the cross? Well, see, the Bible explains that once Christ died in the cross a NEW COVENANT was to be followed that the OLD COVENANT had expired (Hebrews 8:6-7). This covenant was established on BETTER promises. It explains that if Circumsicion (the OLD Covenant) was faultless, then, there would be no NEED for a second. In verse 13 of that same chapter it reiterates: In saying “NEW COVENANT” he made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
This blessed is Circimsicion: The Law of Moses that expired once Christ died in the cross. So NOW we are not under that law but instead under UNCIRCUMSICION ~ the grace of God ~ for faith and by faith. In Hebrews 8:12 Paul quotes the prophet that He will NEVER remember our sins/transgressions.
I declare the BEST day! Abba Father!
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BebedeJesus
Guest
lol…worldly satisfaction?? I never mentioned worldly satisfaction but let me clarify…my joy is not f/ what I see but what I know and believe…by faith and f/ faith.
Blessed.
B
BJRumph
Guest
So, just to be clear on what you are saying;
First, when Christ was crucified, he killed/destroyed ALL sin completely and permanently.
Second, your salvation (and incidentally your happiness) occurs through your faithful recognition of this event, and not through a personalized forgiveness of Christ to you of your sins.
Is this approaching your belief?
If so, then, let me ask; have you ever sinned?
First, when Christ was crucified, he killed/destroyed ALL sin completely and permanently.
Second, your salvation (and incidentally your happiness) occurs through your faithful recognition of this event, and not through a personalized forgiveness of Christ to you of your sins.
Is this approaching your belief?
If so, then, let me ask; have you ever sinned?
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BJRumph
Guest
Ignoring your silly snipe, lets get to the meat.
Sorry, but when you suggested that I was blinded and in error because I could not “divide” the scriptures/gospel correctly, it only stands to reason that there is, in practice, a correct (true) and an incorrect (false) gospel.
Even in your further elaborations, declaring the old covenant as being gone and the new covenant having replaced it, you are still asserting that it is the new covenant that is OUR “correct” one, rather than the old.
Granted, this model is distinct from that I originally surmised from your posts so far.
Perhaps if you would explain your remarks with a bit more substance from their intialization, we could evade unecessary conflict based upon half-statements and partial explanations.
Thanks
S
sea_oat
Guest
I’m pretty speechless right now.
It’s kind of like if someone tells you the moon is made of cheese, and really believes it. Where do you even begin?
Please, let’s all pray for whomever this new member is.
It’s kind of like if someone tells you the moon is made of cheese, and really believes it. Where do you even begin?
Please, let’s all pray for whomever this new member is.
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BebedeJesus
Guest
If you read the scriptures, you’ll see evidence that sin was taken away…it’s not there anymore. So, I think that in itself answers your question about my sinning. Obviously, I make mistakes but they aren’t held against me to where my salvation is taken from me. If so, then He’d have to die REPEATEDLY and the Bible states there is NO more offerings for sin (Hebrews 9:25-26)…so, those who say they are in sin and believe it…I got news for you…THERE IS NO MORE OFFERINGS!! (Hebrews 10:14)
As far as the New Covenant:
If you believe the Bible is the Word of God…then, in it you should find the guide to what our Father would like us to enjoy. And I for one REFUSE to step all over the blood of He who has given me all (Hebrews 10:29). I know it’s difficult for you to understand that EVERYTHING you have been taught and believed is not what you thought. This totally blows peoples minds…like the thought that Jesus of Nazareth may have married and had children…why not?? It was and is not a sin to marry.
I have been in the ministry for well over 17 yrs…YES, from the beginning and if this is false~~> I would expect God would’ve done away with it…don’t u think? I have read up on plenty of leaders that have proclaimed themselves some kind of prophet or whatever and don’t last long. Not to mention they usually isolate their followers from family and pretty much the world. We are very much living normal lives, travel, buy, sell and probably are your neighbors.
I am taking this time to explain how we come to the understanding that the Apostle Jose Luis de Jesus is THE OTHER Paul spoke about (1 Corinthians 3:10-11) and then in another scripture states the THE OTHER was Jesuschrist himself who would come to clarify and expose mysteries that for many years were hidden from man.(1 Corinthians 4:5 & Romans 16:25-26) I think it’s about time God takes care of Babylon.
I want to leave you with a thought:
If we were supposed to live and follow the steps of Jesus of Nazareth…then, why does Paul tell us that to go unto perfection we MUST leave the principles of Christ? He is obviously speaking of Jesus of Nazareth and he lists those principles which are baptism, laying of hands, resurrection of the dead and eternal judgement. (Hebrews 6:1-6) This is the foundation of repentance and we aren’t called to repentance but to reconciliation. The moment Jesus died we were reconciled and are one in Him. How could we be sitting with Him in celestial places if we are “sinners”??
I declare you what you are, as per the Bible:
Blessed with ALL spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3)
As far as the New Covenant:
If you believe the Bible is the Word of God…then, in it you should find the guide to what our Father would like us to enjoy. And I for one REFUSE to step all over the blood of He who has given me all (Hebrews 10:29). I know it’s difficult for you to understand that EVERYTHING you have been taught and believed is not what you thought. This totally blows peoples minds…like the thought that Jesus of Nazareth may have married and had children…why not?? It was and is not a sin to marry.
I have been in the ministry for well over 17 yrs…YES, from the beginning and if this is false~~> I would expect God would’ve done away with it…don’t u think? I have read up on plenty of leaders that have proclaimed themselves some kind of prophet or whatever and don’t last long. Not to mention they usually isolate their followers from family and pretty much the world. We are very much living normal lives, travel, buy, sell and probably are your neighbors.
I am taking this time to explain how we come to the understanding that the Apostle Jose Luis de Jesus is THE OTHER Paul spoke about (1 Corinthians 3:10-11) and then in another scripture states the THE OTHER was Jesuschrist himself who would come to clarify and expose mysteries that for many years were hidden from man.(1 Corinthians 4:5 & Romans 16:25-26) I think it’s about time God takes care of Babylon.
I want to leave you with a thought:
If we were supposed to live and follow the steps of Jesus of Nazareth…then, why does Paul tell us that to go unto perfection we MUST leave the principles of Christ? He is obviously speaking of Jesus of Nazareth and he lists those principles which are baptism, laying of hands, resurrection of the dead and eternal judgement. (Hebrews 6:1-6) This is the foundation of repentance and we aren’t called to repentance but to reconciliation. The moment Jesus died we were reconciled and are one in Him. How could we be sitting with Him in celestial places if we are “sinners”??
I declare you what you are, as per the Bible:
Blessed with ALL spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3)
M
mommyof4
Guest
I hear ya.
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BJRumph
Guest
Well, to be historically fair, 17 years is a drop in the bucket. We’ll see how the movement progresses after your leader dies, which is usually when these things fall apart (unless legal actions force it to happen earlier).
Thank you for sharing your interpretation of the particular verses you have quoted. Obviously, I’d have to disagree with them.
I find it interesting that as “Christians” we must abandon what Christ gave us.
Another question, if I may;
Is your group’s leader really, that is “exclusively”, Jesus Christ? Or is that teaching based upon the premise that all who follow Christ’s Gospel are themselves Christ? Are you, now or expecting to become, Jesus Christ?
IF he is claiming to the the exclusive Jesus Christ, why did he not return as the scriptures tell us he will, and why is he not, genetically rather than ritually, a Jew, as the actual Jesus was? According to the scriptures, Jesus will return to us in the same manner as he left, not “reborn” into new flesh.
Finally, how can Sin actually be non-existant, when yourself claims to have made “mistakes” which would otherwise be called sin, were you not automatically refusing to do so. Because of the historical singularity of the Crucifiction, is all murder that occurred after it no longer sinful? Basically, by removing the morality of it due to rejection of its “sinful” nature, nothing more than a selffish inconveinience to others? Why did Jesus, as recorded in scripture, bother trying to set everyone straight about the nature of Sin, the Law, and any doctrine at all regardless, if he was just going to eliminate the entire subject in a couple years at his death? Why are we expected to throw out God’s teachings for those of one of his followers?
I know the scriptural references you are using to make your position, yet it is becoming clear that they are not being used in their actual context, either within their immediate discourse, or within relation to the entirety of scripture.
Perhaps if you inderstood the Catholic position, you would see how it incorporates al these things into a unified, consistent, single teaching. For example, yes, Christ atoned for all sin in the singular act of his Passion, however, that does not mean we cannot sin, or that sin is now eliminated from the equasion. Otherwise, there would be no need for faith at all in Christ! We need to have faith in Christ now, not because it gives us a surety that we are safe because there is no “sin”, but precisely because we still do sin, and need continual recourse to His mercy.
As you have so far explained it, we cannot sin! We can make mistakes, which have the ususal social-ethical consequences, but we don’t really have to worry about that, because there is no Sin; we cannot spiritually screw up.
Again, I can see the basic appeal to this idea, as well as why living by it would make one seem to be happy. But such an edenic state of existence cannot occur under the circumstances we know are needed for it to, nor will adoption of this belief actually solve the evils found in the world today in a manner that will create it without them.
Thank you for sharing your interpretation of the particular verses you have quoted. Obviously, I’d have to disagree with them.
I find it interesting that as “Christians” we must abandon what Christ gave us.
Another question, if I may;
Is your group’s leader really, that is “exclusively”, Jesus Christ? Or is that teaching based upon the premise that all who follow Christ’s Gospel are themselves Christ? Are you, now or expecting to become, Jesus Christ?
IF he is claiming to the the exclusive Jesus Christ, why did he not return as the scriptures tell us he will, and why is he not, genetically rather than ritually, a Jew, as the actual Jesus was? According to the scriptures, Jesus will return to us in the same manner as he left, not “reborn” into new flesh.
Finally, how can Sin actually be non-existant, when yourself claims to have made “mistakes” which would otherwise be called sin, were you not automatically refusing to do so. Because of the historical singularity of the Crucifiction, is all murder that occurred after it no longer sinful? Basically, by removing the morality of it due to rejection of its “sinful” nature, nothing more than a selffish inconveinience to others? Why did Jesus, as recorded in scripture, bother trying to set everyone straight about the nature of Sin, the Law, and any doctrine at all regardless, if he was just going to eliminate the entire subject in a couple years at his death? Why are we expected to throw out God’s teachings for those of one of his followers?
I know the scriptural references you are using to make your position, yet it is becoming clear that they are not being used in their actual context, either within their immediate discourse, or within relation to the entirety of scripture.
Perhaps if you inderstood the Catholic position, you would see how it incorporates al these things into a unified, consistent, single teaching. For example, yes, Christ atoned for all sin in the singular act of his Passion, however, that does not mean we cannot sin, or that sin is now eliminated from the equasion. Otherwise, there would be no need for faith at all in Christ! We need to have faith in Christ now, not because it gives us a surety that we are safe because there is no “sin”, but precisely because we still do sin, and need continual recourse to His mercy.
As you have so far explained it, we cannot sin! We can make mistakes, which have the ususal social-ethical consequences, but we don’t really have to worry about that, because there is no Sin; we cannot spiritually screw up.
Again, I can see the basic appeal to this idea, as well as why living by it would make one seem to be happy. But such an edenic state of existence cannot occur under the circumstances we know are needed for it to, nor will adoption of this belief actually solve the evils found in the world today in a manner that will create it without them.
I
inJESUS
Guest
am speechless…at least Muhammad had the integrity not to claim to be Jesus 
but these are simply nutcases…worse yet, people believe them !! and i still wondered how some people believed someone like Muhammad to be a prophet 
Lord have mercy ! satan is working very hard to delude as many as possible.
that nutcase must be dealt with…bring him to some knowlegeable Christians and let them ridicule him infront of all people by showing his true colours…
Who is this Jesus that all people are waiting for…
but these are simply nutcases…worse yet, people believe them !! and i still wondered how some people believed someone like Muhammad to be a prophet Lord have mercy ! satan is working very hard to delude as many as possible.
that nutcase must be dealt with…bring him to some knowlegeable Christians and let them ridicule him infront of all people by showing his true colours…
Who is this Jesus that all people are waiting for…
C
ChristianWAB
Guest
BebedeJesus. Thank you for trying to help educate others in your faith. I just wanted to make a few comments/questions:
1.) In an earlier post, you’d mentioned that you’ve been in the ministry for over seventeen years and you suspected that if you were in a false belief system (paraphrasing), then God would’ve done away with it by now. However, even you would have to agree that the Mormons, Protestants, Scientologists, Catholics, Muslims, Satanists, etc have all pre-existed Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda’s movement, so clearly, God hasn’t done away with any of these other religions yet.
If Jose plans to eradicate all of these other religions, wouldn’t he have done so by now? Can he, then, be blamed for not preventing the horrible events of 9/11 five years ago, predicated upon a belief system that you would believe to be false?
2.) If this guy is the second coming of Jesus, why would he contradict the Jesus of over 2,000 years ago by telling us that there is no more devil or hell? Where is all of the *“weeping and gnashing of teeth” *going to happen if the devil’s gone? I’d also have to wonder why people are still sinning if sin has been eradicated. Acts like murder never stopped being a sin and people are murdered every year.
I fear that the soul of Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda *(as well as your soul, sadly) *is in SERIOUS peril if he stays on the path he is on now. It’s one thing to believe in a false doctrine. It’s quite another to lead countless other people to believe the same lies while getting rich off of their misguided faith.
The soul of a human being is nothing to toy with and certainly nothing to leverage for one’s own financial gain.
How many disillusioned souls have helped him to buy his gold and diamond-encrusted vestments? Please give SERIOUS thought to this. This is one area in life where you cannot afford to be duped.
1.) In an earlier post, you’d mentioned that you’ve been in the ministry for over seventeen years and you suspected that if you were in a false belief system (paraphrasing), then God would’ve done away with it by now. However, even you would have to agree that the Mormons, Protestants, Scientologists, Catholics, Muslims, Satanists, etc have all pre-existed Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda’s movement, so clearly, God hasn’t done away with any of these other religions yet.
If Jose plans to eradicate all of these other religions, wouldn’t he have done so by now? Can he, then, be blamed for not preventing the horrible events of 9/11 five years ago, predicated upon a belief system that you would believe to be false?
2.) If this guy is the second coming of Jesus, why would he contradict the Jesus of over 2,000 years ago by telling us that there is no more devil or hell? Where is all of the *“weeping and gnashing of teeth” *going to happen if the devil’s gone? I’d also have to wonder why people are still sinning if sin has been eradicated. Acts like murder never stopped being a sin and people are murdered every year.
I fear that the soul of Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda *(as well as your soul, sadly) *is in SERIOUS peril if he stays on the path he is on now. It’s one thing to believe in a false doctrine. It’s quite another to lead countless other people to believe the same lies while getting rich off of their misguided faith.
The soul of a human being is nothing to toy with and certainly nothing to leverage for one’s own financial gain.
How many disillusioned souls have helped him to buy his gold and diamond-encrusted vestments? Please give SERIOUS thought to this. This is one area in life where you cannot afford to be duped.
P
Persephone
Guest
Hi Bebe,
If you don’t mind my asking, what convinced you that this guy is the real deal? Have you met him personally? This is the first I’ve heard of him, so please forgive my ignorance.
If you don’t mind my asking, what convinced you that this guy is the real deal? Have you met him personally? This is the first I’ve heard of him, so please forgive my ignorance.
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