MERGED Posthumous Mormon Baptisms

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chosen_people said:
There was a time when we Jews thought that any and all deceitful conversions of Jews (alive or dead) ended with the Finaly affair:
isurvived.org/2Postings/Finaly-affair.html
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Mormons aren’t Catholic and Catholics aren’t Mormons, but I can see how to you can take the view of same stuff, different day.

I think you are already aware that the Catholic church doesn’t condone forced conversions. I can’t speak for everyone at CAF, but I would be extremely uncomfortable baptizing a child in secret. I couldn’t do it. People can/will go against Church teaching.

But that would be another topic for another thread. This one is about Mormons doing proxy baptisms of Jews. Apparently they performed a baptism for Anne Frank, again, this past Saturday. The Mormon church response is that proxy baptisms of holocaust victims is by policy not to be performed. Mormons keep doing them though. This is at least the 9th time a proxy baptism has been done for Anne Frank.

Elie Wiesel has also been submitted as “ready” for posthumous baptism, though, he’s not dead. He led the campaign in 2010 in getting the LDS church to stop the posthumous baptisms of holocaust victims.

For a church that is so meticulous about record keeping, they sure seem to get this one wrong a lot.
 
Chosen People.

You gravitate and fixate towards the worst of Catholicism. Such sentiments and practices were reflective of those who committed them and do not represent the Catholic faith.

Thank God there were many contrary witnesses of Catholic faith found in Pope Pius XII of whose work for the Jewish people was recognized by a garden in Rome sponsored by the Jewish people…the many Poles who laid down their lives for the Jews, and John Paul II who also worked to defend and protect the Jews.

My father was in the seminary then when rumors were coming out of Europe regarding Nazi atrocities committed against the Jews. ‘The Black Book of Poland’ documented atrocities and found its way into the American seminaries…and every one was greatly afflicted.

There were about 2,000 German — German Catholic priests who were executed by the Nazis during WWII.

You remember the Holocaust. So do I. But I also remember the German priests who were martyred, the Slavic people who were slaughtered by the Nazis as well as by their own people, the Communists.
 
Greetings, everyone:
I have just found the name of my recently reposed husband on FamilySearch.org, which means that my spouse, who began his life as a Roman Catholic, and ended his earthly life as a Roman Catholic, was posthumously baptized into the LDS Church.

This is extremely disrespectful to my husband and me. Not to mention the rest of his family – all Catholics as well. No one in the LDS Church contacted me for my approval in this matter. I see this action as a deliberate affront to our beliefs, and I want this baptism officially revoked. How do I go about getting that?
 
Mormon ‘baptism’ is totally invalid, even upon the living. It’s no more effective on the dead.

I wouldn’t be too bothered about it – it’s irrelevant but basically well-intentioned.
 
Katerini said:
Greetings, everyone:
I have just found the name of my recently reposed husband on FamilySearch.org, which means that my spouse, who began his life as a Roman Catholic, and ended his earthly life as a Roman Catholic, was posthumously baptized into the LDS Church.

This is extremely disrespectful to my husband and me. Not to mention the rest of his family – all Catholics as well. No one in the LDS Church contacted me for my approval in this matter. I see this action as a deliberate affront to our beliefs, and I want this baptism officially revoked. How do I go about getting that?
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Hello Katerini,

It is disrespectful. I most certainly would not want to be baptized in the LDS. Depending on the situation, it may show bad faith to wait until someone dies to baptize them in a sect they would not permit alive. This may interest you: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=642045&highlight=belgium+baptism+annulled
 
I am so sorry for your loss. There’s not really anything to revoke, since the “baptism” did absolutely nothing in the first place.
 
Katerini:

The fact that your recently reposed husband shows up on family search does not mean that he has been posthumously baptized by the LDS; it just means that his name is in a searchable database.

Alma
 
Alma147 said:
Katerini:

The fact that your recently reposed husband shows up on family search does not mean that he has been posthumously baptized by the LDS; it just means that his name is in a searchable database.

Alma
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To know if he was baptized or is on the list of people to be baptized you’d have to be able to search other databases. These other databases are kept hidden from non-LDS in keeping with their secrecy policy. While the sting of this disrespect is understandable maybe you could turn towards those who waste their time and talent, misplacing their hope in these human efforts instead of the hope we have in Christ.
 
It is an empty ritual without any real meaning. I wouldn’t worry about it.
 
Nine_Two said:
It is an empty ritual without any real meaning. I wouldn’t worry about it.
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This empty ritual is just as the Protestant Holy Communion, which is invalid as majority of Protestants do not believe in the real presence of Christ. As the Catholic Church is a Bible-believing Church, we believ in the real presence of Christ. If we do not believe that we are eating the body of Christ and drinking Christ’s blood, we will never understand what our sins are.
 
Some how I intuit the Mormon practices and responses…

They will go on baptzing the dead, including the Jews…sorry to hear about Anne Frank being baptized again.

They are not letting go…I believe this…of the 1,000 year old historical records of priests and religious, and assume they will baptize them anyway. I think this is a sin…to keep on doing such things to people who do not want them.

When authorities tell the Mormon religion not to do baptisms of Christian and Jewish believers, say they won’t and apologize…I don’t think they apologized to the Catholic Church when the Vatican clamped down in Spring of 2008…they acted very miffed about it…little conscience here…it is as a sin to me.
 
I thought of this last night after posting to Chosen People…

This is a good question that I am not knowing the answer right now, but know of many humanitarian Jews who have defended other people with courage.

How many Jews have been executed for defending Catholics?

Edith Stein was a Carmelite nun, and Jewish…who went to her death in the Nazi death camp. She died for Christ, she died for being a Jew.

If people refuse Catholic baptism…Christ acknowledges it.

How many Mormons have died defending people of other religions or for Christ Himself?
 
KathleenGee said:
I thought of this last night after posting to Chosen People…

This is a good question that I am not knowing the answer right now, but know of many humanitarian Jews who have defended other people with courage.

How many Jews have been executed for defending Catholics?

Edith Stein was a Carmelite nun, and Jewish…who went to her death in the Nazi death camp. She died for Christ, she died for being a Jew.

If people refuse Catholic baptism…Christ acknowledges it.

How many Mormons have died defending people of other religions or for Christ Himself?
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I know of this one…

Helmuth Hübener

Rare among LDS, because they believe that they must follow the “law of the land”. His bishop was a Nazi, and had him excommunicated as soon as he was arrested. He was posthumously reinstated.
 
RebeccaJ said:
. His bishop was a Nazi, and had him excommunicated as soon as he was arrested. He was posthumously reinstated.
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Only because they couldn’t find records of the excommunication procedure, and it was assumed that they didn’t follow proper procedure.
 
Jerusha said:
Only because they couldn’t find records of the excommunication procedure, and it was assumed that they didn’t follow proper procedure.
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I think they would have eventually anyway, even if only for appearances.
 
RebeccaJ said:
I think they would have eventually anyway, even if only for appearances.
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Well, they had to have an excuse for reversing it. Bishops having the divine authority and inspiration of the holy spirit, and all that. They couldn’t back down and say that a mistake had been made.

They didn’t have paper shredding machines back then, but fire will do just as well. :rolleyes:
 
I would suggest that they are doing what they think right to benefit the dead. I think God will honor their intention, though not their expected result, and apply it for the benefit of the one prayed for.

I pray for a lot of non-Christians who don’t believe in such prayers. Again, God will honor the intention and do what is best. However, I would never publicize my prayers, which would give offense and benefit no one.
 
It’s bad enough when any religion imposes their initiation process on someone, dead or alive. However, the LDS church is renowned for their record keeping. You’d think that once Anne Frank was ‘baptized’, they wouldn’t allow it 9 (yes nine) more times. Wasn’t the first time good enough? Or are they saying that they don’t even trust their own baptisms?

Next time a Mormon tells me I have to be baptized in their church for it to be valid, I’m going to ask how many are required before it is considered valid.
 
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