MERGED Posthumous Mormon Baptisms

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Bezant said:
I’m afraid you can’t pussyfoot around the deceptiveness.

As I’ve pointed out before, some of the names were volunteered by family members (often through work with Mormon genealogists) who a) either didn’t know about the posthumous baptism controversy (and therefore couldn’t make a fully informed decision to volunteer the names), or b) were assured that their loved ones’ information wouldn’t be used for posthumous baptisms. Sorry, but someone was deceitful.

Furthermore, someone decieved not only families, but also the Mormon Church, according to it’s promises. The Mormon Church agreed in 1995 not to posthumously baptise Holocaust survivors.
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Okay, but how about in those cases where it didn’t involve deception? Like going to the cemetery or obituaries or the public records to get names? And how about cases where they didn’t break previous promises? They could get an old phone book from many decades ago and baptise everyone in there as the majority of those people listed would probably be dead by now. They could get a history book. They could go to a patent office where the names of inventors and their inventions are available for the public to see. They could go to IMDB.com and get names from movies of the silent era. They could just open to the obituaries page literally every day.

The possibilities are limitless and don’t deceive the survivors of the deceased. With those conditions, they aren’t using deception and (presumably) they aren’t breaking previous promises.
 
This controversy defies logic and reason on all sides.
  1. If Jews believe these posthumous baptisms “strip Holocaust victims of their Jewishness”, then they have to believe these baptisms are valid. They have to believe Joseph Smith was right and a true prophet of God. The louder they complain about it, the more it sounds like they believe in it.
  2. If Mormons believe baptism for the dead allows people into heaven, then why agree not to do it? Offending someone is irrelevant when the souls of these dead Jews are at stake. The more they grovel and back away from it, the more it sounds like they don’t really take it seriously.
 
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RebeccaJ:
The “belief” that Jesus is “a” god is on par with the Jehovah’s Witnesses. My JW co-worker & I discussed the Divinity of Christ Jesus one day & she agreed completely with the LDS’ take on that to which I was completely floored JW’s & LDS believe the same in this regard. :hypno:
 
Question - I have heard LDS believe once they are baptized, they have more Jewish blood than the Jews do?!* Can TexanKnight or anyone expand on this? Would this pertain to baptisms for the dead?
 
Holly3278 said:
I would be angry if I found out that I was going to be baptized by a Mormon after my death too. I don’t want to be posthumously baptized by a Mormon and I hope and pray that I am not. I believe that the baptism I received in 2005 was sufficient.
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GOD BLESS YOU HOLLY - WELCOME HOME!!! :hug1:
 
We all know that mormon baptisms for the living or the dead have no validity.

Where the problem lies is the fact they make it appear as though someone chose something when in fact they didn’t.

Many people, now, and in the future will see these records and say…Hmmmm, I didn’t know Aunt XX was mormon.

That is the disturbing part. re-writing history so to speak.
 
Alma147 said:
Katerini:

The fact that your recently reposed husband shows up on family search does not mean that he has been posthumously baptized by the LDS; it just means that his name is in a searchable database.

Alma
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But if family search shows an IGI record, then we can presume Mormon rites have been performed, no?
 
venite_adoremus said:
…Instead, enlist the help of the librarian at the LDS Family History Center nearest you. Make a visit, tell them your problem. They can get you into the hidden reaches of the New Family Search program and you can find out who the submitter was. Then, write a letter to that person’s bishop, requesting disciplinary action. LDS members can be disfellowshipped, excommunicated, or have their recommends revoked for both conspicuous name-gathering and for not respecting the right of precedence of the living…
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Um, is this avenue likely to be successful? I mean. have you tried this yourself? I am skeptical that the folks at the FHC are likely to be so helpful in an attempt to get someone ex-communicated.
 
Bezant said:
I’m afraid you can’t pussyfoot around the deceptiveness.

As I’ve pointed out before, some of the names were volunteered by family members (often through work with Mormon genealogists) who a) either didn’t know about the posthumous baptism controversy (and therefore couldn’t make a fully informed decision to volunteer the names), or b) were assured that their loved ones’ information wouldn’t be used for posthumous baptisms. Sorry, but someone was deceitful.

Furthermore, someone decieved not only families, but also the Mormon Church, according to it’s promises. The Mormon Church agreed in 1995 not to posthumously baptise Holocaust survivors.
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What makes holocaust survivors so special as to be specifically avoided with regards posthumous baptism?
 
twopekinguys said:
We all know that mormon baptisms for the living or the dead have no validity.

Where the problem lies is the fact they make it appear as though someone chose something when in fact they didn’t.

Many people, now, and in the future will see these records and say…Hmmmm, I didn’t know Aunt XX was mormon.

That is the disturbing part. re-writing history so to speak.
Click to expand...
Genealogy is a hobby of mine, and I use LDS based websites, so I guess I’m guilty as charged. The way I see it, if someone in the future comes across my generations of Catholic relatives, they will see that the vast majority of them are interred in Catholic cemeteries (see findagrave.com or interment .net, besides Catholic records and obituaries). If they also happen to see any of us in an LDS registry, I’m certain they can figure out what has occurred. LDS posthumous baptisms are not a secret. And if they see any of them who died before 1820, when Mormonism was unheard of, listed as LDS, I’m hpoing they can discern the truth.
That said (and now I’m being flip again), those concerned should be sure to have engraved on their tombstone “I am not a Mormon!”
 
christofirst said:
If they also happen to see any of us in an LDS registry, I’m certain they can figure out what has occurred. LDS posthumous baptisms are not a secret.
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Presumably, when they do posthumously baptise someone, there would be a note or asterisk or something indicating that it was posthumously done by a living member, right?
 
Venite Adoramus…

Thank you for your insightful work…Yes, I do know that Mormons who want celestial heaven must do this.

I did not know they will also have some kind of rule over us in the next life as well.

Yes, church ecclesiastics in the late 60’s through the 70’s were in some kind of fog…referring now to Catherine Emmerich’s vision of a future condition of the Church.

The spirit of the world has infected the Church.

Sacramental records…sacrament…sacred…our reception of Christ in concrete form of the divine life of grace within.

I see the Church itself has having administrators who themselves have lost some sense of the sacred. I know of a bishop many years ago…of whom we all prayed for…believed the Eucharist ‘disappeared within minutes after reception’.

A Hebrew woman born on December 8…sounds like they are mixing up a feast day with Mary’s birthday of which we do not know but celebrate differently.

They have now a thousand year old recorded history of priests and religious whose vocation in life will now be used for this. Yes, the Mormons were miffed and thought they were entitled to these documents, and the Vatican said it was not an action the Mormon Church should now stop dialogue with the Church.

And considering their teachings and convictions about the Catholic Church, it was a great, great triumph to have the OK by the secular mayor of Rome to begin building their temple in the countryside of Rome, of which St. Justin the Martyr was describing of places of where the Mass was celebrated.

We shouldn’t be so passive, and should stick up for the dignity of our faith more to the world.

Of course, such actions are not warranted, do not hold weight…

Mormons say they believe in many things the same as us, including free will. You discuss Mormonism and you will see yourself walking down a hallway of mirrors tno…yes but no
 
PazzoGrande said:
Presumably, when they do posthumously baptise someone, there would be a note or asterisk or something indicating that it was posthumously done by a living member, right?
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I would certainly hope so, but I am not familiar enough with LDS practices to say for sure.
Just an aside, I have also found many of my relatives who were Protestant, and Masons, and quite possibly anti-Catholic. I was not wild about this, but facts are facts. All the more reason to pray for them, I say. Will they be offended?
 
Why is this a problem- one of the opponents of Obama the liberal messiah is Mormon!

If you were in a bad car accident and severely hurt so that you couldn’t help yourself - who would you rather see- an obama supporter who would take your wallet- or a Mormon who would make sure you got the help you need- as Jesse Jackson said walking down the street at night when I turned and saw it was two white boys I felt relieved- why should we have to fear young black men?- They have no fathers to teach them right from wrong.

Tried to start Boy Scout troop in inner city(read black and poor) years ago but didn’t work out because with Scouts you need the parents involved- they were happy to drop them off for meetings but with the Scouts now you need at least 4 adults on any trip so that there are never only one adult with a Scout, So could never do campinig or any outings.

For Mormons Scouting is almost a religion- it enforces all their edicts(sic) about family and socializing.
 
PazzoGrande said:
Okay, but how about in those cases where it didn’t involve deception? Like going to the cemetery or obituaries or the public records to get names? And how about cases where they didn’t break previous promises? They could get an old phone book from many decades ago and baptise everyone in there as the majority of those people listed would probably be dead by now. They could get a history book. They could go to a patent office where the names of inventors and their inventions are available for the public to see. They could go to IMDB.com and get names from movies of the silent era. They could just open to the obituaries page literally every day.

The possibilities are limitless and don’t deceive the survivors of the deceased. With those conditions, they aren’t using deception and (presumably) they aren’t breaking previous promises.
Click to expand...
If family information that’s obtained with the promise that the information won’t be misused, how secure is information that’s freely obtained from public records, without those promises? There may not be any deception in this case, and I doubt anything “bad” (e.g., identity theft) will happen to the information, but things can change, and bad things can happen, especially if the Mormon Church is/becomes limited (or unwilling) in its capacity to correct the problem.
 
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