MERGED Posthumous Mormon Baptisms

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RebeccaJ said:
I don’t get the sense that Mormons can or are willing to empathize with people who are offended by this practice. They just plain don’t care what the views of others are, unless it supports their “great apostasy” view. Most likely, they take the stance that opposition to this practice is an indication that what they are doing is right.

It’s pointless, really, to go on and on with them about how it affects the feelings and emotions of individuals and communities, because they aren’t listening, and don’t give a rat’s behind.
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I don’t know how any Mormon could claim to be faithful to their beleifs and tenets…honor their rites and rituals IF they bowed to the pressure to end the rites and rituals concerning the “redemption of the dead” any more than a Catholic would bow to “outside” pressure to stop praying for a deceased member or friend to “shorten their time in purgatory” when the family member or friend objecting to such prayers or masses being said because they believed such prayers, indulgences, novenas, masses said on behalf of the dead were ineffectual…Mormons are conducting their rites and rituals on behalf of the dead not to “tick anyone off” but to seek to “bring about the salvation and eternal life” of the individual to be with the Father…they would take a similar stance as Catholics if Catholics were asked to discontinue their prayers and masses on behalf of those in purgatory…they give no more “a rat’s behind” than Catholics would.🤷
 
I wish I could be a Quaker…everybody likes Quakers…nobody messes with Quakers…but my faith is binding, and I will remain a Catholic, God willing.
 
:shamrock2: LOL!!

The Jews I know love the Irish … and Italians…
 
KathleenGee said:
I wish I could be a Quaker…**everybody likes Quakers…**nobody messes with Quakers…but my faith is binding, and I will remain a Catholic, God willing.
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Not everyone…you’ve never been to an “anti-war” rally with a Quaker presence and heard the taunts or had fruit throw at you…or to protest the KKK by holding Meeting and almost get ridden down by police horses breaking up a more violent protest against them than Friends would do…or to sit “in Meeting” when Westboro Baptist church was making a hub-bub…or the “boos” and insults when Friends marched alongside their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters for equality…not everyone likes Quakers…we’re small in number…but “pesky”🙂
 
Joe_Kelley said:
I would suggest that they are doing what they think right to benefit the dead. I think God will honor their intention, though not their expected result, and apply it for the benefit of the one prayed for.

I pray for a lot of non-Christians who don’t believe in such prayers. Again, God will honor the intention and do what is best. However, I would never publicize my prayers, which would give offense and benefit no one.
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I think you’re right.👍
God understands so much that we cannot imagine. He knows that these folks mean the best by what they have done.

And I, too, pray for folks whose families would be appalled if they knew i pray for their beloved dead…
 
They hate us as well…but they are so extreme…it is the ordinary Christians and the rest who claim we are not Christian…or the ‘great w or h’…you know what I mean…that …
 
KathleenGee said:
They hate us as well…but they are so extreme…it is the ordinary Christians and the rest who claim we are not Christian…or the ‘great w or h’…you know what I mean…that …
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LOL…we’re told all the time we’re not Christians…even on this board since we don’t practice water baptism…it’s not a failing of “ordinary Christians”…it’s a failing all people have…to see the “other” in those before us…we will always as people find what we disagree and dislike about others rather than seek to find our commonality…even Friends.🙂
 
Do Mormons use the Protestant argument against infant Baptism that the infant has no say in his or her Baptism, and can only be Baptized when they reach the ‘age of reason’?
Because uh…the the departed have no say so either.
 
JustaServant said:
Do Mormons use the Protestant argument against infant Baptism that the infant has no say in his or her Baptism, and can only be Baptized when they reach the ‘age of reason’?
Because uh…the the departed have no say so either.
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In my discussions with Mormons…they have quoted from the Book of Mormon to clarify the baptism issue of children…not all Protestants refuse to baptize babies.

And while the departed have no say…they DO have a choice to accept the merits of the baptism done on their behalf since they can’t be baptized…as they are…well…dead…the ordinance of baptism for the dead is based on the belief that baptism by one having authority is necessary for the highest exhaltation/salvation…if a person dies without being baptized there must be a way that baptism can be applied to them in the next world if they so desire to accept the “grace” of baptism…unless someone is baptized on their behalf among the living…they have no opportunity to accept the baptism…even if they chose to be baptized…baptism for the dead gives them the opportunity to make that choice…not remove it…they do not have to accept the baptism offered to them by proxy…but the opportunity to do so is now there…where before it wasn’t.
 
JustaServant said:
Do Mormons use the Protestant argument against infant Baptism that the infant has no say in his or her Baptism, and can only be Baptized when they reach the ‘age of reason’?
Because uh…the the departed have no say so either.
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They believe the souls of the dead are being taught by Mormon missionary souls. Just like in life, they come around knocking on your door apparently, and ask you if you want to be baptized. Since you’re well, you know, dead and don’t have a body to be baptized, let alone a discussion on water in an afterlife… (?)…and how could you say “No”, when it’s quite obvious that missionary souls most likely have the “it” package…they have Mormons here being baptized for the soul who they believe wants to be baptized.

They believe, the soul of the person can say “no” and in that case, the proxy baptism being done for them means what we all think it means…nothing.

Mormon “scripture” calls baptism of infants wicked and a mockery of God. But yes, Mormonism has roots in 19th century American Protestantism.
 
(Publisher…

One of my clients, a physician who was passing on, was a Quaker. And he said if he were to change, he’d be an Episcopalian or Roman Catholic.

But I never heard anything negative ever mentioned against Quakers…but now come to think of it, yes…I remember hearing of some references to the CO’s that were Quaker…but I didn’t have picture they were being especially singled out, but more as a group.

So where I come from, you Quakers are sooooo popular…and so beloved and sooo wonderfullllll…!!!

However…Come to think of a little more,…I do remember something else. In my freshman year in college, under the influence of my boyfriend, I did tell my father about becoming a Quaker. it was over the weekend, then Monday the idea left. He in turn told my Irish Catholic grandmother he couldn’t sleep the entire weekend…he and my mom called me every weekend all the years I was in college, and they really did not want me going out with any body either. Very old world, not like you modern Quakers.

Only Christ can judge and there is baptism of desire.)

Well, I still wish we could have some of the same favor the Quakers have…

NOW… will the Mormons apologize to the Vatican the way it is doing now at the moment to the Jews???
 
KathleenGee said:
(Publisher…

One of my clients, a physician who was passing on, was a Quaker. And he said if he were to change, he’d be an Episcopalian or Roman Catholic.

But I never heard anything negative ever mentioned against Quakers…but now come to think of it, yes…I remember hearing of some references to the CO’s that were Quaker…but I didn’t have picture they were being especially singled out, but more as a group.

So where I come from, you Quakers are sooooo popular…and so beloved and sooo wonderfullllll…!!!

However…Come to think of a little more,…I do remember something else. In my freshman year in college, under the influence of my boyfriend, I did tell my father about becoming a Quaker. it was over the weekend, then Monday the idea left. He in turn told my Irish Catholic grandmother he couldn’t sleep the entire weekend…he and my mom called me every weekend all the years I was in college, and they really did not want me going out with any body either. Very old world, not like you modern Quakers.

Only Christ can judge and there is baptism of desire.)

Well, I still wish we could have some of the same favor the Quakers have…

NOW… will the Mormons apologize to the Vatican the way it is doing now at the moment to the Jews???
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I’ve worshipped with Episcopalians, Methodists, Mennonites, Brethren in Christ over the years when a Friend’s Meeting wasn’t in a reasonable driving distance…I attended the Methodist church for two years…and served as “interim pastor” for a Mennonite Brethren congregation. I did my internship at a Brethren in Christ congregation…worked in the thrift store they ran and ministered in their home for unwed mothers for a time…well…until my internship requirments were fulfilled.

I doubt after 35+ years among Friends I’d ever feel comfortable for any length of time elsewhere…when I was in college many many moons ago, one of my instructors said something to the effect that no matter where we ended up worshipping…eventually we’d be drawn back to the Meeting…I certainly found this to be true…and many in the Meeting I attend have been among a myriad of various groups…and have returned to worship among Friends…my soul is fed in Meeting as no other place or manner I’ve worshipped…something profound occurs for me in the Living Silence.
 
RebeccaJ said:
They believe the souls of the dead are being taught by Mormon missionary souls. Just like in life, they come around knocking on your door apparently, and ask you if you want to be baptized. Since you’re well, you know, dead and don’t have a body to be baptized, let alone a discussion on water in an afterlife… (?)…and how could you say “No”, when it’s quite obvious that missionary souls most likely have the “it” package…they have Mormons here being baptized for the soul who they believe wants to be baptized.
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Thanks for that bit of info. It raises an important question though. What do they believe about the afterlife? It sounds as if when we die, we go to a world that isn’t very different from our current one and death isn’t the last call where you go onto judgement.

Furthermore, if the dead in the next life need a Mormon baptism to go into heaven, why aren’t those missionaries in the next life in that heaven already? How can they be in the same realm where they can do missionary work and baptise?

I wonder how that’s supposed to fit in with the Bible (I’m sure it makes sense with the Book of Mormon, but I wonder how they match up that Book of Mormon teaching with what’s in the Bible).

It makes you have to ask, why is there even death in this life when the next life supposedly isn’t any different?
 
PazzoGrande said:
Thanks for that bit of info. It raises an important question though. What do they believe about the afterlife? It sounds as if when we die, we go to a world that isn’t very different from our current one and death isn’t the last call where you go onto judgement.

Furthermore, if the dead in the next life need a Mormon baptism to go into heaven, why aren’t those missionaries in the next life in that heaven already? How can they be in the same realm where they can do missionary work and baptise?

I wonder how that’s supposed to fit in with the Bible (I’m sure it makes sense with the Book of Mormon, but I wonder how they match up that Book of Mormon teaching with what’s in the Bible).

It makes you have to ask, why is there even death in this life when the next life supposedly isn’t any different?
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Well I am not exactly sure how Mormons look at the last judgement compared to Catholics but, they do teach that Joseph Smith will determine whether you are worthy of the celestial kingdom.

I guess they forgot the Jesus part. So a man, who had loose morals, determines who deserves heaven. Ain’t that special?
 
PazzoGrande said:
It makes you have to ask, why is there even death in this life when the next life supposedly isn’t any different?
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There is a new book out that I have read the reviews on but don’t have the book, it is titled “In Heaven As It Is On Earth”. The author goes into the roots of Mormonism, and Joseph Smith, who suffered severe illness, and lost his brother at a young age. Later losing children of his own. Living in a time when death was present in everyday life and not sanitized as it is now. The author presents a case that it was Smith’s goal to get rid of death, and that is what is at the heart of Mormonism.

Their views on afterlife are millennial, believing all the souls of the dead are in a “spirit prison” waiting to be judged after Jesus returns and for a thousand years of doing their temple work…they have to get ALL the dead baptized. For them, Non-Mormons have one more chance to get it right., when the 1000 years is up, that’s it, no more second chances.
 
RebeccaJ said:
They believe the souls of the dead are being taught by Mormon missionary souls. Just like in life, they come around knocking on your door apparently, and ask you if you want to be baptized. Since you’re well, you know, dead and don’t have a body to be baptized, let alone a discussion on water in an afterlife… (?)…and how could you say “No”, when it’s quite obvious that missionary souls most likely have the “it” package…they have Mormons here being baptized for the soul who they believe wants to be baptized.
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That’s pretty bizarre.
Are the souls in Hell, Heaven, or in some spirutal ‘waiting room’?
 
RebeccaJ said:
There is a new book out that I have read the reviews on but don’t have the book, it is titled “In Heaven As It Is On Earth”. The author goes into the roots of Mormonism, and Joseph Smith, who suffered severe illness, and lost his brother at a young age. Later losing children of his own. Living in a time when death was present in everyday life and not sanitized as it is now. The author presents a case that it was Smith’s goal to get rid of death, and that is what is at the heart of Mormonism.

Their views on afterlife are millennial, believing all the souls of the dead are in a “spirit prison” waiting to be judged after Jesus returns and for a thousand years of doing their temple work…they have to get ALL the dead baptized. For them, Non-Mormons have one more chance to get it right., when the 1000 years is up, that’s it, no more second chances.
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I have to ask, was there anything to support Smith’s claims of authority?

With Jesus, there are miracles, most especially the Resurrection, that show us that Christ wasn’t making self-appointed claims.

Sorry if this offends readers, but I really don’t understand what makes Mormonism click. Their beliefs are obviously far separated from Christianity; Christianity takes it root from the miracle of Easter, without which our religion would be a farce. You got to admit, Christianity comes with some claims that are rather out there, but we believe because Christ rose, Christ performed miracles, demons to this day are terrified of the mere wooden image of Christ on the Cross.

Mormonism grew pretty well, and frankly the Mormons I met are a ton nicer than a lot of priests I know. What makes them grow? What makes them tick? Why do they have faith in their religion? Smith didn’t rise from the dead. I have yet to hear of an exorcism being conducted in the name of Smith. Why do they believe?
 
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