MERGED Posthumous Mormon Baptisms

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I have to ask, was there anything to support Smith’s claims of authority?

With Jesus, there are miracles, most especially the Resurrection, that show us that Christ wasn’t making self-appointed claims.
Not that I’ve ever heard of that could be verified.
Sorry if this offends readers, but I really don’t understand what makes Mormonism click. Their beliefs are obviously far separated from Christianity; Christianity takes it root from the miracle of Easter, without which our religion would be a farce. You got to admit, Christianity comes with some claims that are rather out there, but we believe because Christ rose, Christ performed miracles, demons to this day are terrified of the mere wooden image of Christ on the Cross.
Mormonism grew pretty well, and frankly the Mormons I met are a ton nicer than a lot of priests I know. What makes them grow? What makes them tick? Why do they have faith in their religion? Smith didn’t rise from the dead. I have yet to hear of an exorcism being conducted in the name of Smith. Why do they believe?
🤷 I’ve never been able to figure out why anyone would believe Joseph Smith over anyone else who has made similar claims, and I have a lot of believing Mormon family. It is frankly how I came to convert to Catholicism, from a LDS to atheist background. I see no reason to believe any claims but those of Jesus Christ. Everything else is, to my view, rooted in a person or persons who just one day decided to fire up their own religion.
 
Not that I’ve ever heard of that could be verified.

🤷 I’ve never been able to figure out why anyone would believe Joseph Smith over anyone else who has made similar claims, and I have a lot of believing Mormon family. It is frankly how I came to convert to Catholicism, from a LDS to atheist background. I see no reason to believe any claims but those of Jesus Christ. Everything else is, to my view, rooted in a person or persons who just one day decided to fire up their own religion.
I’ve always been cautious about making judgements on LDS. I do read things that question Smith’s integrity. But as a Catholic, I know that Catholicism had been subject to unfair bias and oppression too. I always gave the LDS people the same benefit of the doubt, because we’re in the same boat in this country. We could also say Christ had questionable integrity, He hung out with whores, was driven out of places for speaking and was executed by the state as a criminal.

Since you know Mormonism better than I do, let me ask, did you ever see that episode of South Park where they discuss Morminism? Is their description about its founding accurate? It all just seems so strange to me.

Also, their President supposedly speaks to God (someone else started a thread on this but the question wasn’t answered last time I checked). Does the president claim to do it through inspiration? Or by direct contact with God? It would astound me if they could claim the latter.

I could go through the Bible and point out where Mormonisms claims contradict what we have in the Bible, but to be fair, protestants can do the same to us Catholics by bias and selectivity in their claims. I’m sure if you question Mormons on their beliefs that aren’t in harmony with authentic Scripture, they would have their apologist ways to explain it. Again, it’s hard for me to cirticise Mormonism because one could chock it all up to unfair bias by the critics. But their religion is as fascinating as reading Harry Potter.
 
LOL…we’re told all the time we’re not Christians…even on this board since we don’t practice water baptism…it’s not a failing of “ordinary Christians”…it’s a failing all people have…to see the “other” in those before us…we will always as people find what we disagree and dislike about others rather than seek to find our commonality…even Friends.🙂
Ah, well, and then there are the Baptists, who are convinced that I am “not really baptized” because (just to;) start something) I didn’t :rolleyes:get wet enough for them.
As far as I am concerned, Publisher, you are indeed a Christian.

As far as Anne Frank is concerned, I am :(saddened to realize that there are people out there who believe that this gentle young soul needed anything other than “Come ye blessed of my Father…” to enter into Heaven.
And I think that young Hugo Hubener is a saint also.
Final (possibley) word: We gotta get along better with each other.
 
Ah, well, and then there are the Baptists, who are convinced that I am “not really baptized” because (just to;) start something) I didn’t :rolleyes:get wet enough for them.
As far as I am concerned, Publisher, you are indeed a Christian.

As far as Anne Frank is concerned, I am :(saddened to realize that there are people out there who believe that this gentle young soul needed anything other than “Come ye blessed of my Father…” to enter into Heaven.
And I think that young Hugo Hubener is a saint also.
Final (possibley) word: We gotta get along better with each other.
Indeed we do!!!👍
 
I’ve always been cautious about making judgements on LDS. I do read things that question Smith’s integrity. But as a Catholic, I know that Catholicism had been subject to unfair bias and oppression too. I always gave the LDS people the same benefit of the doubt, because we’re in the same boat in this country. We could also say Christ had questionable integrity, He hung out with whores, was driven out of places for speaking and was executed by the state as a criminal.
Yes, but Jesus didn’t participate in the questionable activities, he healed and forgave. Smith not only participated, but claimed he was inspired by God to do so.
Since you know Mormonism better than I do, let me ask, did you ever see that episode of South Park where they discuss Morminism? Is their description about its founding accurate? It all just seems so strange to me.
If you mean the one where a Mormon neighbor moves in, yes, it was accurate.
Also, their President supposedly speaks to God (someone else started a thread on this but the question wasn’t answered last time I checked). Does the president claim to do it through inspiration? Or by direct contact with God? It would astound me if they could claim the latter.
Both.
I could go through the Bible and point out where Mormonisms claims contradict what we have in the Bible, but to be fair, protestants can do the same to us Catholics by bias and selectivity in their claims. I’m sure if you question Mormons on their beliefs that aren’t in harmony with authentic Scripture, they would have their apologist ways to explain it. Again, it’s hard for me to cirticise Mormonism because one could chock it all up to unfair bias by the critics. But their religion is as fascinating as reading Harry Potter.
All religions can be fairly criticized. 🙂 While most Catholics I know aren’t adverse to putting a microscope to Catholicism, talking openly about “things gone wrong”, bad Popes, sinful clergy etc. Mormons hide anything that might paint their religion in a bad light, and view pointing these sort of things out as persecution.
 
That’s pretty bizarre.
Are the souls in Hell, Heaven, or in some spirutal ‘waiting room’?
Answer is: in Paradise, which is the spirit world, which I suppose can be considered a “waiting place” and a “learning place”.

Heaven for those waiting in the spirit world doesn’t happen until after their resurrection. See 1 Peter 3:18-10 and 1 Peter 4:6.
 
Answer is: in Paradise, which is the spirit world, which I suppose can be considered a “waiting place” and a “learning place”.

Heaven for those waiting in the spirit world doesn’t happen until after their resurrection. See 1 Peter 3:18-10 and 1 Peter 4:6.
We are judged at the moment of our death. Heb 9:27.

1 Peter 3:18-20 is speaking of the souls of those who died before Jesus was crucified. 1 Peter 4 doesn’t have any correlation to the scripture you sited from 1 Peter 3, and doesn’t say anything about heaven.
 
That’s just bizarre. Obviously, we know he can’t actually be speaking face-to-face with God. Therefore, he’s either delusional, or this is a massive scam. Since it’s unlikely that Mormon presidents have all been delusional in succession since the religion’s founding, then it suggests it’s a scam. It’s amazing. Really, how does this religion survive? This is practically the definition of the word “cult.”

I’m guessing that one becomes a Mormon president by being an upstanding Mormon. I wonder how one turns from an upstanding Mormon into someone who essentially lies about directly conversing with God.

It all just seems so fantastically made up. It makes me wonder if I’m being too lenient on automatically dismissing this religion off and I shouldn’t bother giving them the benefit of the doubt (not in the sense that their religion is the true one, but rather in the sense that there must be some logic to their beliefs – really it seems as if there’s no sense to it whatsover). How do they know it isn’t all just made up? Why do they believe it in the first place without something showing them it’s worth believing in?

Do they still teach that black people turn white when they become holy? I sat next to a Mormon on a flight once and had a conversation with him and he denied that claim, yet I do read that this really was Mormon doctrine. It’s also just weird. It suggests racism and you have to ask, is there any documented case where a black person turned white thanks to becoming a good Mormon?

I know that as Catholics, we do claim fantastic things, but at least we have miracles to back them up, such as Eucharistic miracles, miracles for canonisations, Marian Apparitions that even non-Christians have witnessed, etc. We still have miracles till this very day of an advanced scientific age; we don’t limit our miraculous happenings to the middle ages. Mormonism is a relatively new religion, coming to existence just as science was making great strides. Therefore, a black person turning into a good white Mormon should probably have been somehow documented and verified, right?

On this case, I’m judging them on the same basis that I welcome everyone to judge us Catholics; we have miracles to back up our teachings, reminding us that our religion is correct and that our fantastic claims are substantiated.

Mormonism seeks out to claim fantastic things as well… but aren’t Mormons yearning for proof? Like a black person turning white? That doesn’t seem too much to ask for, even if it’s exceedingly rare.
 
Publisher…I have a sense of an image of you…and it sounds like the Meeting is the right place for you and that you exhibit the Holy Spirit and its fruits.

You have the baptism of desire and to want to get along with everyone is a fruit of communion…some times it is the language that hangs us up…
 
PazzoGrande,

You might want to try a different resource for finding out facts rather than myths about what the words “speak to God” mean. There are plenty of resources to find out about that on the website:


You can try word combinations in the word search tool, such as “revelation” or “still small voice” or “latter day prophet” or “guidance of the Holy Ghost”. It will pull up several articles that will give you the real beliefs of the real people who are active Latter-day Saints.
 
Well…somebody out there correct me…but hell is reserved for former Mormons…or those who want to leave are told they will go to hell.

The issue is integrity.

You can only go so far with Mormon claims and stories…and the cover ups.

I say to the Mormon Church…please have some respect for our faith, and stop baptizing our dead…especially the souls of consecrated priests and religious whose records you have going back a thousand years.

Have respect for the convictions of other people.

And stop declaring as your base of faith all other doctrines are corrupt, an abomination. That is cultural and religious genocide of 2000 years of history, not counting the Jews who go back over 5,000 years.

Mormonism interprets the Sacred Scriptures, not according to JudeoChristianity…in the Holy Spirit…the true interpreter…but Joseph Smith.

Mormonism is best kept with your own books. Don’t mix the two.
 
Well…somebody out there correct me…but hell is reserved for former Mormons…or those who want to leave are told they will go to hell.

The issue is integrity.

You can only go so far with Mormon claims and stories…and the cover ups.

I say to the Mormon Church…**please have some respect for our faith, and stop baptizing our dead…**especially the souls of consecrated priests and religious whose records you have going back a thousand years.

Have respect for the convictions of other people.
And stop declaring as your base of faith all other doctrines are corrupt, an abomination. That is cultural and religious genocide of 2000 years of history, not counting the Jews who go back over 5,000 years.

Mormonism interprets the Sacred Scriptures, not according to JudeoChristianity…in the Holy Spirit…the true interpreter…but Joseph Smith.

Mormonism is best kept with your own books. Don’t mix the two.
Just a question…so you condone the baptizing of children/babies in danger of death even though it is or would be against the express wishes of the parents?

This thread is very “enlightening” to me concerning how some Catholics “respect” th faith traditions of others…“have respect for the convictions of other people”…good advice…but something just very unsettling in this thread on baptism under “Moral Theology”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=650189

It appears that baptizing the living against the will of parents is acceptable for some Catholics…even to the point of being “valid” and “licit”.

I found it interesting to read both threads in conjunction…anyone else find a “dissonance” of sorts? Very interesting exercise to read the condemnation of LDS…yet read the affirmation on baptism from Catholics on the other hand.

What’s your take on this thread…just out of curiosity?
 
Hi Publisher…

And I also want to extend my sympathies for the loss of your child. I also think of the child’s parents’ beliefs…and if the child were to live, he/she would be of the culture of the parents. As I said about you…I see you baptized with desire.

Yes. there is gray area.

Again it is not Church practice to baptize babies. There is the baptism of water, desire, and blood.

I do not baptize others’ babies, but I know those who are aborted definitely die the baptism of the blood.

What about the babies who were killed by Herod?

What I do, though, is pray for the perseverance of the just and the conversion of sinners, and pray to put all of humanity in Christ.

Secondly, as a Catholic, we see Truth as objective and personified alone only in Christ.

We do not see things as relative. We know that many are called, but few chosen…meaning the world hears the Word of Christ, see witness of Christ, but refuse Him or choose to not seek Him. Those who seek Truth will find it.

Those who are lost do not seek the Truth nor desire it.

So we can’t say everything is relative.

And the Church is not bent to baptize everybody, even the dead, to be the number one church.

Quakerism is not on the radar screen like Catholicism is. You may have your enemies who are more associated with parts of the military, but you are not knowing the inbred emnity by other Christians or Mormons, as we do.

The Catholic faith is based on truth, not relativism. The spirit of the Church is to propose, but not impose.
 
Publisher…I also reflecting…while signing off for work…

You say if it is good for the goose, it is good for the gander…

But where we share the same…if somebody baptized us or our own against our will, we would be enraged…

The Church has come to the understanding now…that there is no limbo…

I was on two hospice cases where nearing the point of death, two clients were under great siege…wanting to flee their beds, thrashing back and forth when before immobile…I responded to comments–note responded and did not initiate…‘I lived a bad life’…and with the help of Gentle Mary, was able to give them confidence in God’s forgiveness, and they died in much peace and grace of God. I don’t know if they were baptized, and I did not baptize them, but counselled them.

They did not enter the Catholic Church…its purpose no longer needed…but I believe they went to the merciful and loving hand of God.
 
Publisher…I also reflecting…while signing off for work…
**
You say if it is good for the goose, it is good for the gander…**
But where we share the same…if somebody baptized us or our own against our will, we would be enraged…

The Church has come to the understanding now…that there is no limbo…

I was on two hospice cases where nearing the point of death, two clients were under great siege…wanting to flee their beds, thrashing back and forth when before immobile…I responded to comments–note responded and did not initiate…‘I lived a bad life’…and with the help of Gentle Mary, was able to give them confidence in God’s forgiveness, and they died in much peace and grace of God. I don’t know if they were baptized, and I did not baptize them, but counselled them.

They did not enter the Catholic Church…its purpose no longer needed…but I believe they went to the merciful and loving hand of God.
Yes…I firmly believe we should get our own house in order before we instruct others to do the same…splinters verses logs and such…🤷
 
The Mormon administration will continue to do what is part of their beliefs.

I like the article that came out questioning some Mormon prosletyzer’s instructions to his missionaries who were placed at the Vatican. The article said such behaviors are disrespectful and Mormons should always be respectful towards others.

www.fairlds.org/authors/johnson-cooper/mormon-missionaries-the-vatican-and respect

www.fairlds.org/…/authors/ johnson-cooper…mormon - missionaries - the - vatican - and - respect…

I also deeply recall a sharing on ex-mormon.org by a Mormon girl who was in Italy, passing out leaflets to devout Catholics who were entering and leaving their churches and cathedrals, and the contempt she encountered, as well as the sense what she was doing was wrong.

Mormonism is based on the conviction that all beliefs are corrupt and an abomination but theirs. That is the talk of a man, and not of God.

Again, I put a link in that is not connecting…the writer was questioning the behavior of Mormon missionaries…and Mr. C Gerald Parker, who headed the missions in Rome, came on to partly defend the leader, saying may be that person was misjudged…was not intending to do so.
 
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