MERGED: Prayer Intercessions at Mass/Extemporaneous Prayers

[oremus]

I went to Mass at a different parish and this was a new one I have not experienced before. There were prayer petitions shouted out from the laity from the pews. I don’t think this is to be done, or is it? At least, I have not experienced this before at any other Mass. Kind of took me by surprise.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

Yes, it is ok. The general intercessions are supposed to be read by the laity during Mass. The priest then adds those of his wishes and who the Mass is being offered for, and then it is opened back up to the laity for personal intercessions. This is a common practice.

 

[heathernoel]

I see this done during Daily Mass at my Parish.

 

[oremus]

Well, now I know. I’ve been Catholic 54 years and have never seen this done before, at least not in the area I live in.

 

[markomalley]

I went to Mass at a different parish and this was a new one I have not experienced before. There were prayer petitions shouted out from the laity from the pews. I don’t think this is to be done, or is it? At least, I have not experienced this before at any other Mass. Kind of took me by surprise.

I have seen that before myself.

The GIRM (#71) says:

1. It is for the priest celebrant to direct this prayer from the chair. He himself begins it with a brief introduction, by which he invites the faithful to pray, and likewise he concludes it with a prayer. The intentions announced should be sober, be composed freely but prudently, and be succinct, and they should express the prayer of the entire community.

The intentions are announced from the ambo or from another suitable place, by the deacon or by a cantor, a lector, or one of the lay faithful.

The people, however, stand and give expression to their prayer either by an invocation said together after each intention or by praying in silence.

Before somebody accuses me of being some sort of liturgical Luddite, let me give you an anecdotal reason why having the general intercessions shouted out from the faithful in the pews.

I remember a few years ago I was unable to make it to my normal parish for Ash Wednesday. Now I realize that Ash Wednesday is not a Holy Day of Obligation, but I still like going to Mass and receiving ashes on that day, obligatory or not. So I went to a parish near my work site…for reasons that will become apparent, I will leave the name of the parish out of the discussion. It was your stereotypical happy-clappy type of Mass, up until the general intercessions. The people called out their prayers, followed by a solemn “Lord, hear our prayer”. One of the prayers was for the Holy Father to see the light and approve the ordination of women to the priesthood, Yes, the congregation (including the celebrant) intoned “Lord, hear our prayer” as if nothing was out of the ordinary.

I don’t know if this was a case of (a) nobody paying attention but me, (b) the celebrant not wanting to embarrass the woman in public, or (c) the view that was being taught at the parish, but assuming either choice (a) or (b), that illustrates why the general intercessions should be written up and read from a script, not ad-libbed by the faithful at Mass. (Of course, if it’s option (c), there is a completely different problem going on).

 

[TheMc]

I went to Mass at a different parish and this was a new one I have not experienced before. There were prayer petitions shouted out from the laity from the pews. I don’t think this is to be done, or is it? At least, I have not experienced this before at any other Mass. Kind of took me by surprise.

No, they should not.
GIRM
71. It is for the priest celebrant to direct this prayer from the chair. He himself begins it with a brief introduction, by which he invites the faithful to pray, and likewise he concludes it with a prayer. The intentions announced should be sober, be composed freely but prudently, and be succinct, and they should express the prayer of the entire community.

The intentions are announced from the ambo [not the pews] or from another suitable place, by the deacon or by a cantor, a lector, or [read:]one of the lay faithful.[Not many of the lay faithful, but one of the lay faithful.]

The people, however, stand and give expression to their prayer either by an invocation said together after each intention or by praying in silence.

 

[929dad]

I’ll agree that opening up the floor, as it were, makes the possibility of people praying for women’s ordination, etc., much more likely. But, if the instruction, as quoted a few times already, makes silent prayer included in the intercessions, is there a difference, spiritually speaking?

It seems to me, at least metaphorically, that all our prayers get bundled together and offered from the community. So if my prayer is spoken aloud or kept in my heart, it gets included.

I’m not looking to explore the value or appropriateness of one prayer over another. Understanding what kind of prayer God wants is way over my pay grade.

 

[TheMc]

I’ll agree that opening up the floor, as it were, makes the possibility of people praying for women’s ordination, etc., much more likely. But, if the instruction, as quoted a few times already, makes silent prayer included in the intercessions, is there a difference, spiritually speaking?

If this were a metaphorical or poetical text, maybe, but the rubrics are not metaphorical or poetical. They were written to be laws, and we need to take what it says literally. We simply should not be adding intentions from the pews. If you want to do that, have a prayer meeting.

 

[MarkThompson]

No, they should not.
GIRM
71. It is for the priest celebrant to direct this prayer from the chair. He himself begins it with a brief introduction, by which he invites the faithful to pray, and likewise he concludes it with a prayer. The intentions announced should be sober, be composed freely but prudently, and be succinct, and they should express the prayer of the entire community.

The intentions are announced from the ambo [not the pews] or from another suitable place,

Arguably, if a laypeople from the congregation are adding petitions, then the pews are a suitable place, unless you expect them each to troop up to the ambo in turn.

**by the deacon or by a cantor, a lector, or [read:]**one of the lay faithful.[Not many of the lay faithful, but one of the lay faithful.]

I’m not sure you can read too much into that. The Latin merely says “… vel a fideli laico,” not “… vel ab uno tantum ex fidelibus laicis” or something like that. I think the intent was to add another option, not (for instance) to prohibit having two lectors alternate petitions.

If memory serves, the (generally terrible) Directory for Masses with Children suggests having them each read a petition, so (although the directory is generally terrible) I don’t think anyone is interpreting this passage of the GIRM as somehow intending to express “only one.” I think it is also a common practice in multilingual Masses, including many Papal Masses if memory serves me right, to have petitions read by various speakers of different languages.

I certainly agree with the above remarks that this is usually an awful idea due to the likelihood of someone adding a petition for something heretical, or, almost as bad, for something immoral or partisanly political. In smaller groups or among people who know each other, however, the chance of those problems arising is pretty low. At a school Mass, for example, or a daily parish Mass with a dozen regulars, there is not much risk.

 

[TheMc]

Arguable, if a laypeople from the congregation are adding petitions, then the pews are a suitable place, unless you expect them each to troop up to the ambo in turn.

I’m not sure you can read too much into that. The Latin merely says “… vel a fideli laico,” not “… vel ab uno tantum ex fidelibus laicis” or something like that. I think the intent was to add another option, not (for instance) to prohibit having two lectors alternate petitions.

If memory serves, the (generally terrible) Directory for Masses with Children suggests having them each read a petition, so (although the directory is generally terrible) I don’t think anyone is interpreting this passage of the GIRM as somehow intending to express “only one.” I think it is also a common practice in multilingual Masses, including many Papal Masses if memory serves me right, to have petitions read by various speakers of different languages.

I certainly agree with the above remarks that this is usually an awful idea due to the likelihood of someone adding a petition for something heretical, or, almost as bad, for something immoral or partisanly political. In smaller groups or among people who know each other, however, the chance of those problems arising is pretty low. At a school Mass, for example, or a daily parish Mass with a dozen regulars, there is not much risk.

Thanks Mark. I always like to hear your take on things.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

I just returned from a daily Mass in which upon arriving at the prayer intentions the faithful in the pews would spontaneously mention something out loud like “for all those who are celebrating their birthdays today” then the priest would say “we pray to the Lord” and the congregation would respond as normal. Then another person would shout out “for my job interview tomorrow!”, the priest would say “we pray to the Lord”, etc.

While I found this sort of sweet and intimate, it didn’t seem very appropriate to me. Aren’t the General Intercessions at Mass supposed to be scripted in advanced and spoken by the priest, or was this all OK?

 

[MarkThompson]

I just returned from a daily Mass in which upon arriving at the prayer intentions the faithful in the pews would spontaneously mention something out loud like “for all those who are celebrating their birthdays today” then the priest would say “we pray to the Lord” and the congregation would respond as normal. Then another person would shout out “for my job interview tomorrow!”, the priest would say “we pray to the Lord”, etc.

While I found this sort of sweet and intimate, it didn’t seem very appropriate to me. Aren’t the General Intercessions at Mass supposed to be scripted in advanced and spoken by the priest, or was this all OK?

There is no requirement for them to be written in advance. If you want to read the rules governing the general intercessions, I’ve posted them before here, and there is a whole thread about your specific topic here. I remain of the view I expressed then that
this is usually an awful idea due to the likelihood of someone adding a petition for something heretical, or, almost as bad, for something immoral or partisanly political. In smaller groups or among people who know each other, however, the chance of those problems arising is pretty low. At a school Mass, for example, or a daily parish Mass with a dozen regulars, there is not much risk.

 

[TrueLight]

I just returned from a daily Mass in which upon arriving at the prayer intentions the faithful in the pews would spontaneously mention something out loud like “for all those who are celebrating their birthdays today” then the priest would say “we pray to the Lord” and the congregation would respond as normal. Then another person would shout out “for my job interview tomorrow!”, the priest would say “we pray to the Lord”, etc.

While I found this sort of sweet and intimate, it didn’t seem very appropriate to me. Aren’t the General Intercessions at Mass supposed to be scripted in advanced and spoken by the priest, or was this all OK?

Love the pictures in your siggy.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

There is no requirement for them to be written in advance. If you want to read the rules governing the general intercessions, I’ve posted them before here, and there is a whole thread about your specific topic here. I remain of the view I expressed then that
this is usually an awful idea due to the likelihood of someone adding a petition for something heretical, or, almost as bad, for something immoral or partisanly political. In smaller groups or among people who know each other, however, the chance of those problems arising is pretty low. At a school Mass, for example, or a daily parish Mass with a dozen regulars, there is not much risk.

Oh what would this forum be without you MarkThompson!?

Forget starting new threads, from here on out I’ll just PM you all my pesky question.

 

[MarkThompson]

Haha, I do what I can!

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I just returned from a daily Mass in which upon arriving at the prayer intentions the faithful in the pews would spontaneously mention something out loud like “for all those who are celebrating their birthdays today” then the priest would say “we pray to the Lord” and the congregation would respond as normal. Then another person would shout out “for my job interview tomorrow!”, the priest would say “we pray to the Lord”, etc.

While I found this sort of sweet and intimate, it didn’t seem very appropriate to me. Aren’t the General Intercessions at Mass supposed to be scripted in advanced and spoken by the priest, or was this all OK?

Sounds a lot like the “Joys and Concerns” section of many United Methodist services I’ve been to.

 

[ConstantineTG]

There is no requirement for them to be written in advance. If you want to read the rules governing the general intercessions, I’ve posted them before here, and there is a whole thread about your specific topic here. I remain of the view I expressed then that
this is usually an awful idea due to the likelihood of someone adding a petition for something heretical, or, almost as bad, for something immoral or partisanly political. In smaller groups or among people who know each other, however, the chance of those problems arising is pretty low. At a school Mass, for example, or a daily parish Mass with a dozen regulars, there is not much risk.

How about if someone yells, “Grant that the priest would stop doing this. Let us pray to the Lord”