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ConfusedTim
Guest
A friend of a friend has been “encouraged by the Holy Spirit” to plant new churches. My evangelical friend thinks this is ok but i didnt think it was. Are there any biblical arguments either way?
MERGED: Protestant Church Planting - Where is it in the Bible?
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4Squarebaby
Guest
There are many try Acts chapter 13 were evangelist are sent out by the Holy Spirit, not the human authority, on their mission.
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elvisman
Guest
Sorry, but you’re wrong. The early missionaries and evangelists were sent out by the heads of the Church – the Apostles, et al. It is the CHURCH that was led by the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15) to send these men out. So, when it says that they were sent by the Holy Spirit – they WERE but it was through the Church:
Acts 15:25-27
**“Since we have heard that some of our number (who went out) *without any mandate from *us have upset you with their teachings and disturbed your peace of mind, we have with one accord decided to choose representatives and to send them to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, who have dedicated their lives to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. **
**So we are sending Judas and Silas who will also convey this same message by word of mouth.” **
**Remember what they said in their letter to the Gentiles in Judea. **
**Acts 15:28 **-
’It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities”
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East_Anglican
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Naughty Annanias went to Paul without the churches permission. Acts 9:10-17
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FidesSpesCarita
Guest
Very true. A Christian sought the leadership of the Church. But all apostles (not the 12, but those that followed) were sent from the leadership of the Church (in biblical times that was the twelve and on some occasions those appointed by the twelve) and not of their own volition.
I think the issue the OP is going to run into is the disagreement with apostolic succession, the assumption of authority, and the evangelical pastor’s assumption that he is an apostle of Christ.
There is really nothing against it that you could say considering the evangelical rejection of apostolic succession and authority other than that he should not go alone since it is almost impossible to persevere in the faith as a lone Christian.
FSC
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elvisman
Guest
**Hmmm . . . can you show me the verse where Annanias planted a church without the Church’s permission? **
I can’t seem to find that anywhere . . .
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East_Anglican
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I reckon I’m going to be totally misunderstood. Nobody planted churches. There is only one true vine. More branches were grafted into the vine that is Christ.
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manualman
Guest
He evangelized Paul (which all believers are called to do), but did not found a local church with him on the spot. On the contrary, Paul had to come to the apostles, wait for them to be convinced of his real conversion and then wait some more before being commissioned to go off on his famously fruitful ‘church planting’ trips.
Something tells me that must have been quite an ordeal for Paul to await that commissioning. Not the kinda guy who liked to sit around and wait!
This kind of behavior among evangelicals might be one thing in far away lands that have not yet generally heard of Jesus. But there simply is no excuse here in the USA. We are certainly already fractured enough, but they just go for more and more. I call it “retreat and regroup christianity.” Here’s how it works:
- A group within an existing community (they call a church) becomes highly fired up and disenchanted with the lukewarm character of their overall congregation (or perceived corruption therein).
- That group breaks off and starts their own ‘church’ that consistly of ONLY fired up and enthusiastic believers.
- It grows rapidly, some from the old congregation, some from conversion.
- The old congregation staggers on, reduced in size and empty of vigor and fire. They may eventually peter out, but it often takes generations. With the exit of committed christians, new people with all sorts of weird beliefs take the reigns of leadership of what remains.
- The new group has kids, not all of them have the enthusiasm of their parents and the cycle starts over again.
The whole strategy is based on feel-goodism. How else to explain why they abandoned a nicely pre-provided pool of people desperately in need of evangelization?
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elvisman
Guest
**Yes, there is only one vine - and the Church is his Body. **
When Christ spoke of others being grafted in, he was speaking of Gentiles - others who were not Jewish. He wasn’t speaking of other churches or denominations.
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Rightlydivide
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pablope
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Romans 10:14-15 (English Standard Version)
14How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 1**5And how are they to preach unless they are sent? **As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”
How is your friend to know he has been sent? Did he undergo a discernment process?
Paul emphasizes the need for one of being “sent” so as to assure someone to who you will preach that you are not teaching something false, or that the one being sent is not a self appointed prophet.
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tester
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In every verse mentioned above the Greek word used church is " ekklēsia"
ekklēsia means people , or the believers ,not an organization , not a building
A sports analogy: It is the players , not the team , not the stadium, not the franchise.
In the language of the the New Testament; If i go to where there are no believers: And non-believers become Christians; then a church has started ; ( group of believers has formed)
If you read the NT and keep in mind the meaning of the words as intended instead of today’s definition, then it makes more sense.
church = a group of people who are Christains
Blessings;
Saint Tester
ekklēsia means people , or the believers ,not an organization , not a building
A sports analogy: It is the players , not the team , not the stadium, not the franchise.
In the language of the the New Testament; If i go to where there are no believers: And non-believers become Christians; then a church has started ; ( group of believers has formed)
If you read the NT and keep in mind the meaning of the words as intended instead of today’s definition, then it makes more sense.
church = a group of people who are Christains
Blessings;
Saint Tester
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ConfusedTim
Guest
I have not seen any bible verses that give me the impression that it was ok for people to go off and do there own thing. In fact the Acts 15:25-27 verse below suggests the opposite to be true
“Since we have heard that some of our number (who went out) **without any mandate from us **have upset you with their teachings and disturbed your peace of mind, we have with one accord decided to choose representatives and to send them to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, who have dedicated their lives to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Surely people who go off and start a church must have some bible passages that even alude to the fact that it is ok to do so?
“Since we have heard that some of our number (who went out) **without any mandate from us **have upset you with their teachings and disturbed your peace of mind, we have with one accord decided to choose representatives and to send them to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, who have dedicated their lives to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Surely people who go off and start a church must have some bible passages that even alude to the fact that it is ok to do so?
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tester
Guest
acts 15:24
biblos.com/acts/15-24.htm
“some from us”
the word for “from” is"ex"
as in ex wife; as in ex Catholic; as in “no longer part of us”
can also mean “against”
biblos.com/acts/15-24.htm
“some from us”
the word for “from” is"ex"
as in ex wife; as in ex Catholic; as in “no longer part of us”
can also mean “against”
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elvisman
Guest
And that’s the way YOU see it. Unfortunately, that’s not the way GOD sees it.
Church doesn’t mean simply a group of Christians. The Bible doesn’t even infer that.
**According to the Bible and according to ****God, Church means - the ONE Body of Christ (John 17, 1 Cor. 12). **
It means the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
The Bible simply doesn’t support your idea of “Church”.
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agent_grey
Guest
While where at it… where is separation of church and state in the bible? Or freedom of religion?
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tester
Guest
ummm …wow
Any Catholics want to explain " ekklēsia" to him?and BTW. the Body of Christ is a a group of belivers
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ConfusedTim
Guest
Church means both an organisational structure (in order to protect the truth) and a body of beliverers. Not one or the other but BOTH
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tester
Guest
Are you sure?
oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Church%2C_The#I._THE_TERM_ECCLESIA
As signifying the Church, the word Ecclesia is used by Christian writers, sometimes in a wider, sometimes in a more restricted sense.
(a) It is employed to denote all who, from the beginning of the world, have believed in the one true God, and have been made His children by grace. …
(b) It may signify the whole body of the faithful, including not merely the members of the Church who are alive on earth but those, too, whether in heaven or in purgatory, who form part of the one communion of saints. .
(c) It is further employed to signify the Church Militant of the New Testament. Even in this restricted acceptation, there is some variety in the use of the term. The disciples of a single locality are often referred to in the New Testament as a Church
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elvisman
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**Uhhh, no. The Body of Christ is his Church - THE Church. Scripturally - this is not defined as a mere group of believers. It is THE group of believers of ALL his truth - not just parts of it. **ummm …wow
and BTW. the Body of Christ is a a group of belivers
**It is the Mystical Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12) - the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15) - the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23-24). It is the one and *ONLY *body of his faithful - not one of many. **
Read Jesus’ fervent for the unity of his Body in John 17 and tell me that he approves of splinter groups. Your idea of “Church” is simply not on the same plane as Christ’s.
Do me a favor - show me where the Bible claims that “Church” **(ekklēsia) is merely a gropup of “believers”. **
I eagerly await your reply . . .
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