MERGED: Should I stay kneeling?/Parish practices

[newangela]

Hi all-
I hope you can give me some advice about the Eucharist and when to kneel/stand.
In our parish, everyone kneels during Consecration, and then stands up to sing “Amen” while the host is still being raised. In other parishes I’ve been too, everyone remains kneeling until it’s time to begin Communion. I’ve seen some older folks remain kneeling, but I don’t want to be the odd man out.
Also, after I receive Communion, I would love to go back to my seat and kneel in prayer, but I was told in RCIA that “at our parish we all stand until everyone has received Communion as a show of community.” So, once again, I’d be the weird one kneeling while everyone else is being “a community.”
What to do??
Thanks,
Angela

 

[John_of_Woking]

Hi all-
I hope you can give me some advice about the Eucharist and when to kneel/stand.
In our parish, everyone kneels during Consecration, and then stands up to sing “Amen” while the host is still being raised. In other parishes I’ve been too, everyone remains kneeling until it’s time to begin Communion. I’ve seen some older folks remain kneeling, but I don’t want to be the odd man out.
Also, after I receive Communion, I would love to go back to my seat and kneel in prayer, but I was told in RCIA that “at our parish we all stand until everyone has received Communion as a show of community.” So, once again, I’d be the weird one kneeling while everyone else is being “a community.”
What to do??
Thanks,
Angela

Kneel until the Great Doxology has finished…“Through Him, with Him, In Him, In the unity…” Kneel after receiving the Eucharist if you wish. It is entirely up to you. You are not the weird one

 

[MarkThompson]

Hi all-
I hope you can give me some advice about the Eucharist and when to kneel/stand.
In our parish, everyone kneels during Consecration, and then stands up to sing “Amen” while the host is still being raised. In other parishes I’ve been too, everyone remains kneeling until it’s time to begin Communion. I’ve seen some older folks remain kneeling, but I don’t want to be the odd man out.
Also, after I receive Communion, I would love to go back to my seat and kneel in prayer, but I was told in RCIA that “at our parish we all stand until everyone has received Communion as a show of community.” So, once again, I’d be the weird one kneeling while everyone else is being “a community.”
What to do??
Thanks,
Angela

In the United States, the correct posture is to stand at the Amen at the end of the Eucharistic Prayer (the “Great Amen”), remain standing through the Our Father and the Agnus Dei, and then kneel unless it has been determined otherwise for your diocese. The GIRM explains (no. 43):
In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
So you definitely stand for the Amen, Our Father, etc. The question is whether to then kneel again later, after the Agnus Dei and through Communion. In most countries, the universal posture for this part of the Mass is standing; in the U.S., it’s only due to a longstanding contrary custom that our bishops were granted the right to a variation to permit kneeling, although individual bishops can dispense with the U.S. rule and revert to the universal rule instead.

My suggestion is to assume that the posture prescribed by your pastor is what your archbishop has instructed. If you find out that it is not and are still troubled by it, then the proper course would be to discuss it with the pastor and then write to the archbishop for clarification if necessary. In any event, you can feel confident that if you are standing for that portion of the Mass, you are doing what the great majority of Catholics worldwide are doing at the same time.

(I prefer the kneeling too, but there’s no need to get ourselves bent out of shape when there’s no strong reason for it. )

 

[SalesianSDB]

In the churches I go to, as soon as the priest goes to give the congregation communion, everyone sits down with and put the kneelers up so forcefully it sounds like we are in the middle of a battle field. I stay kneeling. That’s how my mom, a Catholic school teacher, taught me and I don’t care if everyone else is sitting, I kneel.

I say with regards to after taking communion, I would say kneel. I’ve never heard of standing until everyone finishes taking communion.

 

[Evan]

In the United States, the correct posture is to stand at the Amen at the end of the Eucharistic Prayer (the “Great Amen”), remain standing through the Our Father and the Agnus Dei, and then kneel unless it has been determined otherwise for your diocese. The GIRM explains (no. 43):
In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
So you definitely stand for the Amen, Our Father, etc. The question is whether to then kneel again later, after the Agnus Dei and through Communion. In most countries, the universal posture for this part of the Mass is standing; in the U.S., it’s only due to a longstanding contrary custom that our bishops were granted the right to a variation to permit kneeling, although individual bishops can dispense with the U.S. rule and revert to the universal rule instead.

The quoted document disagrees with your analysis. We used to stand for the Great Amen, but finally the diocese sent out a correction so all kneel through the Amen and stand for the Lord’s Prayer. Who ever heard of changing posture in the middle of a prayer?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Hi all-
I hope you can give me some advice about the Eucharist and when to kneel/stand.
In our parish, everyone kneels during Consecration, and then stands up to sing “Amen” while the host is still being raised. In other parishes I’ve been too, everyone remains kneeling until it’s time to begin Communion. I’ve seen some older folks remain kneeling, but I don’t want to be the odd man out.

You mean people are kneeling during the Sign of Peace and Agnus Dei?

Also, after I receive Communion, I would love to go back to my seat and kneel in prayer, but I was told in RCIA that “at our parish we all stand until everyone has received Communion as a show of community.” So, once again, I’d be the weird one kneeling while everyone else is being “a community.”
What to do??
Thanks,
Angela

Follow the direction of the Parish Pastor. From what I understand from the documents, the priest can direct the posture of the congregation during distribution of Communion for those in their pews.

 

[newangela]

For clarification:
Everyone stands up during the Great Amen, which seems odd to me…Amen is still part of the prayer, so why would you stand before it was over?
A

 

[MarkThompson]

The quoted document disagrees with your analysis. We used to stand for the Great Amen, but finally the diocese sent out a correction so all kneel through the Amen and stand for the Lord’s Prayer. Who ever heard of changing posture in the middle of a prayer?

Sorry, you’re right and that’s what I meant to say. I’m used to having a short chanted Amen rather than a drawn-out production, so I wasn’t giving much thought to the posture during the Amen, but yes, stand after the Amen.

 

[ConvertaKat]

In the churches I go to, as soon as the priest goes to give the congregation communion, everyone sits down with and put the kneelers up so forcefully it sounds like we are in the middle of a battle field. I stay kneeling. That’s how my mom, a Catholic school teacher, taught me and I don’t care if everyone else is sitting, I kneel.

I say with regards to after taking communion, I would say kneel. I’ve never heard of standing until everyone finishes taking communion.

You’ve never been to Los Angeles. Mahony territory here and the edict went out that all are to “stand in unity”.

Depending on the church, some do some don’t. Some can get very militant about it; fighting your wanting to bring the kneeler down, pushing it back up and hissing at you that you must stand!

I am of the mind that I would rather kneel before the Lord…and so, I do.

To the OP; what does your heart and soul say to do at that moment?
Kneel, stand? I’ve seen some who, at the moment of “This is the Lamb of God…”, do a dip of the knees while standing in respect.

 

[Brendan]

You’ve never been to Los Angeles. Mahony territory here and the edict went out that all are to “stand in unity”…

An edict? No, because this is not a matter that the GIRM delegates to the local Ordinary ( unlike the postion AFTER the Agnus Dei)

The USCCB, prior to the vote on this matter, discussed and agreed that the faithful may kneel when they return to their pew.

This again was affirmed by the Vatican when Cardinal George, acting as President of the USSCB and on behalf of the USCCB requested clarification on the matter. The Vatican ruled that the faithful may kneel when they return to their pew.

Any RCIA instructor ( or local Ordinary) who disagrees, needs to take it up with the Vatican.

adoremus.org/0703Kneel.html

“Numerous inquiries” received by the BCL led Cardinal Francis George, chairman of the BCL, to submit a dubium (doubt, question) to the Holy See’s Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments (CDW) on May 26, 2003:

Dubium: In many places, the faithful are accustomed to kneeling or sitting in personal prayer upon returning to their places after having individually received Holy Communion during Mass. Is it the intention of the Missale Romanum, editio typica tertia, to forbid this practice?

Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the CDW, responded to the question on June 5, 2003 (Prot. N. 855/03/L):

Responsum: Negative, et ad mensum [No, for this reason]. The mens [reasoning] is that the prescription of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, no. 43, is intended, on the one hand, to ensure within broad limits a certain uniformity of posture within the congregation for the various parts of the celebration of Holy Mass, and on the other, to not regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.

The BCL Newsletter continues: “In the implementation of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, therefore, posture should not be regulated so rigidly as to forbid individual communicants from kneeling or sitting when returning from having received Holy Communion” (p. 26. emphasis added.)

 

[FNDRB58]

In the United States, the correct posture is to stand at the Amen at the end of the Eucharistic Prayer (the “Great Amen”), remain standing through the Our Father and the Agnus Dei, and then kneel unless it has been determined otherwise for your diocese. The GIRM explains (no. 43):
In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
So you definitely stand for the Amen, Our Father, etc. The question is whether to then kneel again later, after the Agnus Dei and through Communion. In most countries, the universal posture for this part of the Mass is standing; in the U.S., it’s only due to a longstanding contrary custom that our bishops were granted the right to a variation to permit kneeling, although individual bishops can dispense with the U.S. rule and revert to the universal rule instead.

My suggestion is to assume that the posture prescribed by your pastor is what your archbishop has instructed. If you find out that it is not and are still troubled by it, then the proper course would be to discuss it with the pastor and then write to the archbishop for clarification if necessary. In any event, you can feel confident that if you are standing for that portion of the Mass, you are doing what the great majority of Catholics worldwide are doing at the same time.

(I prefer the kneeling too, but there’s no need to get ourselves bent out of shape when there’s no strong reason for it. )

I DISAGREE!

There is indeed a great reason to be upset about parishioners not kneeling before our Lord!

First let me say that the diocesan bishop can ALLOW standing but no one can force anyone to not kneel according to the GIRM.
The Pastor may request everyone stand but I do not comply with that request. Just because a pastor has this opinion of it doesn’t mean we have to go with it. To ask us to change from a humble adoring posture to a standing less humble posture before our Lord is flat wrong. How can a priest restrict someone from kneeling and praying before our Lord! Ugh! I’m getting angry!!

I don’t see how everybody standing shows unity. Does a handful of people who choose to kneel show disunity? We are all there praising God in the one true Church. THAT shows unity. Asking people to stand during the consecration, after, and after receiving communion is the one of the worst abuses I have seen. How about showing unity by all kneeling to the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ. If Jesus came in our form and appeared before us we would do more than stand or kneel, we would probably all fall prostrate on the sight of our Lord with our hands over our faces in humility and awe. Yet, they ask us to stand in unity before the Real Presence of our Lord!?! Balderdash!

So kneel both times and don’t care about who sees you. Give proper adoration to our Lord and don’t worry about what others do. Many people in church are not that concerned about rubrics, many are just habitual Catholics anyway and go to communion in the state of mortal sin. I tend not to use fellow parishioners as a barometer on what I do. If you truly are in love with your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ then you will know what to do.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

Sit, stand kneel, it really does not matter all that much.

What does matter is that you approach the Eucharist with reverence. You can do that in any position of the body.

I personally sit, because I have significant arthritis. That has absolutely nothing to do with my reverence, or with my ability to worship. Only God, and myself, can know what level that is at.

 

[dconklin]

At five of our six Masses everyone is kneeling for the Great Amen - with exception of the cantor. At our 5:30 Sunday night Mass (which we usually attend) the entire choir stands to sing and the ‘band leader’ motions for everyone else to stand. My wife and I remain kneeling, however it would be nice to see the raised Host.

 

[FNDRB58]

Sit, stand kneel, it really does not matter all that much.

What does matter is that you approach the Eucharist with reverence. You can do that in any position of the body.

I personally sit, because I have significant arthritis. That has absolutely nothing to do with my reverence, or with my ability to worship. Only God, and myself, can know what level that is at.

Obviously arthritis or other medical condition would preclude one from kneeling. Those who are able should indeed kneel. If you could would you stand if our Lord came to us again and appeared in front of you at Mass in our bodily form? Standing certainly would not be reverential to the one who created us and gave us our being.

Kneeling is extremely important! The GIRM even states we HAVE to kneel (for those who can of course) during the consecration. It truly sickens me when people stand. They are clueless of what the Transubstation really is.

So you agree we must approach the Eucharist with reverence but don’t feel that the actual changing of bread and wine to the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ our Savior dictates a reverential posture?

I am getting almost as upset as Mother Angelica did in one of her discussions on the subject.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

If the Lord chose to appear to me, I would indeed stand. Just as the Priest stands during the Consecration.

Far too many people get hung up on FORM. They will argue, fight and destroy any semblence of reverence in the quest to do everything the “correct” way.

The Lord rejected that approach throughout his ministry. He repeatedly labeled the Pharisees as being hyprocritical in their demands for a specific FORM, and not giving a whit about reverence. Those that demand compliance with their version of what is proper are nothing more than modern Pharisees.

I would strongly suggest that those that believe that only one manner of worship is the “correct” way actually read the Gospels. They need to refresh their understanding of the teachings of Jesus, and stop relying on what some ignorant person has taught them.

 

[StTommyMore]

If the Lord chose to appear to me, I would indeed stand. Just as the Priest stands during the Consecration.

Far too many people get hung up on FORM. They will argue, fight and destroy any semblence of reverence in the quest to do everything the “correct” way.

The Lord rejected that approach throughout his ministry. He repeatedly labeled the Pharisees as being hyprocritical in their demands for a specific FORM, and not giving a whit about reverence. Those that demand compliance with their version of what is proper are nothing more than modern Pharisees.

I would strongly suggest that those that believe that only one manner of worship is the “correct” way actually read the Gospels. They need to refresh their understanding of the teachings of Jesus, and stop relying on what some ignorant person has taught them.

Actually, liturgy is not a free-for-all. There is a rubric that is to be followed, unless there are extenuating circumstances. If you choose not to follow the rubrics “just because you don’t want to,” is this not, at least on some level disobedience to proper authority? I am making no statement with regard to the severity of the offence, but that it is an offense if you break from the rubrics without significant reason.

 

[FNDRB58]

If the Lord chose to appear to me, I would indeed stand. Just as the Priest stands during the Consecration.

Far too many people get hung up on FORM. They will argue, fight and destroy any semblence of reverence in the quest to do everything the “correct” way.

The Lord rejected that approach throughout his ministry. He repeatedly labeled the Pharisees as being hyprocritical in their demands for a specific FORM, and not giving a whit about reverence. Those that demand compliance with their version of what is proper are nothing more than modern Pharisees.

I would strongly suggest that those that believe that only one manner of worship is the “correct” way actually read the Gospels. They need to refresh their understanding of the teachings of Jesus, and stop relying on what some ignorant person has taught them.

That last sentence of yours was presumptuous don’t you think? Lets see…

You are correct about the Pharisees. The Lord rejected the people obeying the law IN VAIN. They felt that because they obeyed a law that God owed them something. I hope you are not asserting that that is my contention. We kneel because we love and adore our Lord! Big difference than the Pharisee.

Jesus says that he who is faithful in little things, can be trusted with much more (Mt 25:21; Lk 16:10). Scripture also tells us that Jesus is concerned with every iota and every dot of the law and that it’s not a good thing to relax even the least of the commandments (Mat 5:18-19). So, even though it may be a “little thing,” should we not strive to be faithful in all things?

We are also to obey the Church. In this regard the Church has dictated that it is proper to kneel during the Consecration.

Does it not say in the bible that, “Every knee shall bend before the Lord.”

And the priest stands because he is at the altar. It would be pretty odd to see him kneeling while consectrating don’t you think?

If one truly loved our Lord, I don’t know if one would be able to refrain from falling to one’s knees in adoration. We stand for the singing of the national anthem and while waiting in line for a half cappucino not before our Lord and Savior and the Real Presence is He.

 

[FNDRB58]

Also, do you really believe that priests would remain standing if the Lord appeared to them? Don’t they prostrate themselves when they take their final vows???

 

[dconklin]

Along these lines… After Communion everyone usually stays kneeling until the priest takes his seat. I recently heard we can sit once the Blessed Sacrament has been put into the Tabernacle. This makes sense since we are showing reverence to the Eucharist - not the priest. Right?

 

[Evan]

Along these lines… After Communion everyone usually stays kneeling until the priest takes his seat. I recently heard we can sit once the Blessed Sacrament has been put into the Tabernacle. This makes sense since we are showing reverence to the Eucharist - not the priest. Right?

That is a difficult question. The priest is acting in persona Chrsti so while the priest is distributing communion is he acting the Christ present among us or did that role expire after the Eucharistic Prayer? His hands are still the hands that confected the Eucharist. So you may be kneeling on honor of the actions he has just completed.

… another thought…

Between the time the Eucharist is reposed and the priest sits, what is he doing? In our parish he is purifying the holy vessels, so the particles of Christ from the fractured host and the remnants of the blood of Christ are still present on the altar until he has consumed them. There is very little time between the completion of the purification and when he sits.