MERGED: Singing the Mass by Bishop Olmsted

[Cat]

You noticed that too, I see. It is easy to belittle something if you take a free hand with the words. Stuff like that is why I don’t put much stock in some of the extreme traditionalist opinions here.

It’s even easier to take the words to Latin hymns and corrupt them into something silly.

But why would I do that? That’s something I expect a small child to do because they are immature and think everything is funny. And it is funny when a small child misunderstands words.

I happen to love Here I Am, Lord. When my husband and I were considering converting from evangelical Protestantism to Catholicism, this hymn was a factor. It really spoke to us.

The Latin hymns meant nothing to us–they were “theater,” the kind of thing we were used to hearing in choral concerts at the university.

And chant also meant nothing to us. It was actually kind of creepy for us, who had grown up evangelical Protestant and who were used to hearing chant only in occult movies.

But this beautiful contemporary hymn, Here I Am, Lord, is straight out of the Scriptures, and we both were moved to tears when we heard it. It still gets me in the heart–we sang it yesterday at the Children’s Mass that I played for. (It was the processional hymn, so technicaly, it wasn’t actually part of the Mass.)

This hymn definitely was used by the Holy Spirit to help us to say, “Yes, Lord, here I am, ready to do your will and come home to the Catholic Church.”

IMO, if even one soul comes home to the True Church of Jesus Christ because of a hymn, that hymn is doing good work. I’m guessing that many more souls than just my husband and me have “come home” because of the Holy Spirit working through hymns like Here I Am, Lord.

Those of you who are cradle Catholic and touched more by traditional music may find it banal or objectionable for Mass liturgy, but please try to understand that for many Protestants, especially evangelical Protestants, this hymn is a perfect “bridge” hymn to help us to be drawn towards Catholicism. Many of us would be put off or even scared away by Gregorian chant. But a simple vernacular hymn with a strong melody like Here I Am, Lord is perfect–it helps us to feel comfortable in a Church that many of us all our lives have been taught (wrongly) is a cult.

BTW, for those who think it sounds like a television show theme (I can never remember if this is the Brady Bunch song or not, since I don’t hear it in the hymn), the introduction to the hymn has been changed in the Gather Hymnal. I’m wondering if it was changed in response to all the critics who claimed the hymn sounds like a TV show theme.

 

[pnewton]

You’re missing the point.

And you didn’t answer the question. That phrase is not to be ignored because it mitigates all the chant cheerleading here. Rather because parishes each have their own unique situations, the Catholic Church allows for decisions on music to be made locally. America is no longer the European culture it once was. Additionally, many parts of it are steeped in a Protestant culture. The challenges here are as complex as Africa or Asia.

You getting mad at them only makes public your own skewed liturgical perspective.

I wasn’t angry them. I merely pointed out that I noticed they were the wrong words and the re-write reflects on the person doing the re-writing, as does a propensity to assume emotion where none exists.

You say my perspective is skewed. I say that to a certain sense you are right. In accordance with the Church, I do skew my opinion to my particular parish the needs of the families here. That is perfectly proper. When I read the documents, I consider every phrase though, as it often makes sense of what is going on.

I am curious though if by skewed you mean outside of the mean. Do you think my perspective on music is more outside of the average Catholic parish or do you think yours is more outside the average Catholic parish?

 

[YoungTradCath]

Those of you who are cradle Catholic and touched more by traditional music may find it banal or objectionable for Mass liturgy, but please try to understand that for many Protestants, especially evangelical Protestants, this hymn is a perfect “bridge” hymn to help us to be drawn towards Catholicism. Many of us would be put off or even scared away by Gregorian chant. But a simple vernacular hymn with a strong melody like Here I Am, Lord is perfect–it helps us to feel comfortable in a Church that many of us all our lives have been taught (wrongly) is a cult.

I just wanted to say that I am a young male convert to Catholicism and I was almost irreparably confused when I went to my first Catholic Mass and heard hymns. It didn’t live up to my pop-culture formed expectations (yes, most movies still portray a Catholicism of 1950) and so I was like whaaaaaaaaat? But I persevered due to the intellectual aspect of Catholicism that was severely lacking in my evangelical background!

 

[YoungTradCath]

I think another good idea is the following.

I’ve noticed that several dioceses sponsor Sacred Polyphony choirs and Gregorian choirs. I’ve noticed that several others, if they don’t sponsor them, they endorse them and utilize their services. I think it would do a lot of good for each diocese to have a choir like this, probably attached to the cathedral parish, singing at Masses there regularly as well as at other important diocesan events diocese-wide like the dedication of a church and whatnot. This is what I see as the next logical step in the top down approach. Benedict’s Masses have been getting progressively fancier and more beautiful over his Pontificate so far. He has clearly been setting the example. Therefore the next logical step is for diocesan bishops, especially in countries like the USA, Canada, the UK, Germany, etc. (ie not poor countries), to get on the bandwagon.

This way, people of each diocese will start to see these kinds of things, if not on a regular basis then at least sometimes. I think a lot of this fear of more sacred music is due, more than anything else, to unfamiliarity.

 

[liturgyluver]

I think another good idea is the following.

I’ve noticed that several dioceses sponsor Sacred Polyphony choirs and Gregorian choirs. I’ve noticed that several others, if they don’t sponsor them, they endorse them and utilize their services. I think it would do a lot of good for each diocese to have a choir like this, probably attached to the cathedral parish, singing at Masses there regularly as well as at other important diocesan events diocese-wide like the dedication of a church and whatnot. This is what I see as the next logical step in the top down approach. Benedict’s Masses have been getting progressively fancier and more beautiful over his Pontificate so far. He has clearly been setting the example. Therefore the next logical step is for diocesan bishops, especially in countries like the USA, Canada, the UK, Germany, etc. (ie not poor countries), to get on the bandwagon.

This way, people of each diocese will start to see these kinds of things, if not on a regular basis then at least sometimes. I think a lot of this fear of more sacred music is due, more than anything else, to unfamiliarity.

I think this is an excellent suggestion - especially because it is realistic, and is about pooling resource for maximum benefit of all in the Diocese. As I have said countless times, I sometimes enjoy going to a solemn mass with the chanted propers, but it is unrealistic to imagine that every mass could follow this pattern, but this would allow people to learn and develop into this.

I also think we need better hymnals that focus on the liturgical year and saints days. The New English Hymnal is a great Anglican hymnal that follows this pattern but also includes things like the Lent Prose, sequences for All Saints and hymns for Saint Days, plus office hymns (but on the downside or upside depending on your opinion!) it excludes most of the modern Catholic repetoire, that I think has become typical of the hymns sung at many churches without incoporating the beautiful ancient hymns (many of them translated from Latin by J. Neale in the 19th Century). We need something similar for the Catholic Church.

 

[ProVobis]

I happen to love Here I Am, Lord. When my husband and I were considering converting from evangelical Protestantism to Catholicism, this hymn was a factor. It really spoke to us.

The Latin hymns meant nothing to us–they were “theater,” the kind of thing we were used to hearing in choral concerts at the university.

If I may interject a comment here, it seems in all your posts you are trying to inspire the congregation with what you think is good for your personal life and feel frustrated because no one else follows along. So you end up knocking what they think is more appropiate.

But shouldn’t the Mass inspire the music rather than the reverse? It seems that classical music writers and even some modern writers like Proulx took their cues from the spirit of the Mass, not try to fit popular songs into the Catholic environment.

 

[pnewton]

If I may interject a comment here, it seems in all your posts you are trying to inspire the congregation with what you think is good for your personal life and feel frustrated because no one else follows along. So you end up knocking what they think is more appropiate.

But shouldn’t the Mass inspire the music rather than the reverse?

Ideally, you are right. Practically, you are giving a good guideline. There is such a vast array of music that one often finds the most perfect hymn coinciding with a particular Mass, even if it wasn’t written for it. As a Protestant, one might find a wonderfully, moving hymn and sing it at any service. As a Catholic, one needs to make sure any song or hymn is seasonally appropriate, specifically appropriate to the day and readings, theologically appropriate, and suitable to one’s parish. This would be hard if not for the availability of so much music. Therefore, if one wants “Here I Am”, to use Cat’s example, it usually would not be a good fit. However, over the course of a year, it might work well, if the reading is on the call of Samuel, or in the context of readings on the need for vocations or stewardship.

On the other hand, hymns written that come from the Mass can also be rather dismal. I am reminded of some of the works of staff composers for the major companies. They have to write a specific song for a specific purpose and it turns out rather uninspired and insipid. I think the new translation of the Mass saw many such works. Some Mass specific music is great, the Celtic Alleluia comes to mind, but when a person tries from scratch within a deadline to write a new work, sometimes the results are not so good.

I feel the same way about chant. Some is really good. Some I find completely unbearable, especially some of the latter stuff.

 

[superamazingman]

Ideally, you are right. Practically, you are giving a good guideline. There is such a vast array of music that one often finds the most perfect hymn coinciding with a particular Mass, even if it wasn’t written for it. As a Protestant, one might find a wonderfully, moving hymn and sing it at any service. As a Catholic, one needs to make sure any song or hymn is seasonally appropriate, specifically appropriate to the day and readings, theologically appropriate, and suitable to one’s parish. This would be hard if not for the availability of so much music. Therefore, if one wants “Here I Am”, to use Cat’s example, it usually would not be a good fit. However, over the course of a year, it might work well, if the reading is on the call of Samuel, or in the context of readings on the need for vocations or stewardship.

On the other hand, hymns written that come from the Mass can also be rather dismal. I am reminded of some of the works of staff composers for the major companies. They have to write a specific song for a specific purpose and it turns out rather uninspired and insipid. I think the new translation of the Mass saw many such works. Some Mass specific music is great, the Celtic Alleluia comes to mind, but when a person tries from scratch within a deadline to write a new work, sometimes the results are not so good.

I feel the same way about chant. Some is really good. Some I find completely unbearable, especially some of the latter stuff.

That’s the whole problem we’re talking about here! Composers who write trashy music for Mass. That just shows their own lack of composing talent. If they can’t write good music for the Mass, then maybe they shouldn’t try, or maybe the publishing companies shouldn’t sell it.

But that’s the whole point we’re arguing for: better music at Mass!

 

[YoungTradCath]

I wouldn’t necessarily say composers don’t have talent. I’m sure they do but they are trying to make the $$$$$$$$, and so are awful publishers like OCP. Publishers for the most part don’t care about quality, they care about money.

 

[pnewton]

That’s the whole problem we’re talking about here! Composers who write trashy music for Mass. That just shows their own lack of composing talent.

I will go off on my own opinion here, but I do not think anyone has that kind of talent. I think that the only music worthy to be in Mass is that which taps into the divine, which we find everywhere, but not in great quantities. As I see it, Gregorian Chant rose not from the good composers, but from the holiness of the monks. As time went on, some choirmasters wanted their own legacy and would create new compositions to insure this, and it shows in the result. Then many of the great hymns of the eighteenth and nineteenth century (my own favorite genre) you have compositions that were inspired by the spiritual experieces of the composers, most of who only have one hymn that remains past their life. In both modern Christian music and in secular music, we have artist that will have an amazing song, or maybe two, that rises them in popularity, then as they try to produce album after album, they never, or seldom reach that same level of inspiration one hears in that first song.

A hundred years from now I think we will still have around a song or two from composers today that are paid employees of OCP and GIA, but most of the stuff will be lost to time as unworthy to continue.

 

[superamazingman]

I will go off on my own opinion here, but I do not think anyone has that kind of talent. I think that the only music worthy to be in Mass is that which taps into the divine, which we find everywhere, but not in great quantities. As I see it, Gregorian Chant rose not from the good composers, but from the holiness of the monks. As time went on, some choirmasters wanted their own legacy and would create new compositions to insure this, and it shows in the result. Then many of the great hymns of the eighteenth and nineteenth century (my own favorite genre) you have compositions that were inspired by the spiritual experieces of the composers, most of who only have one hymn that remains past their life. In both modern Christian music and in secular music, we have artist that will have an amazing song, or maybe two, that rises them in popularity, then as they try to produce album after album, they never, or seldom reach that same level of inspiration one hears in that first song.

A hundred years from now I think we will still have around a song or two from composers today that are paid employees of OCP and GIA, but most of the stuff will be lost to time as unworthy to continue.

Indeed. Truer words were never spoken. And chances are, it’ll probably not be something by Haugen, Haas, or Schutte.

 

[liturgyluver]

Then many of the great hymns of the eighteenth and nineteenth century (my own favorite genre) you have compositions that were inspired by the spiritual experieces of the composers, most of who only have one hymn that remains past their life. In both modern Christian music and in secular music, we have artist that will have an amazing song, or maybe two, that rises them in popularity, then as they try to produce album after album, they never, or seldom reach that same level of inspiration one hears in that first song.

I would agree with this. The hymns of the 18th and 19th Century are my favourite genre too, and many were written by devout clergmen. They have never been bettered and it’s a pity that these great hymns - which meet the criteria you described in your previous post - make such rare appearances in the Catholic Church.

 

[opus101]

If I may interject a comment here, it seems in all your posts you are trying to inspire the congregation with what you think is good for your personal life and feel frustrated because no one else follows along. So you end up knocking what they think is more appropiate.

But shouldn’t the Mass inspire the music rather than the reverse? It seems that classical music writers and even some modern writers like Proulx took their cues from the spirit of the Mass, not try to fit popular songs into the Catholic environment.

 

[opus101]

superamazingman and YoungTradCAth: You both speak of the need for quality music, and rightly so. But music for the Mass has to be both high quality and liturgically appropriate. I know that you already know this, but thought I’d just throw that in for clarification.

PNewton: As much as I appreciate many of the things you say, IMHO, you are WAY off base with your ideas about inculturation issues in the US. The only time that inculturation comes into play is mainly in non-western societies that have converts from entirely other religions. Maybe your ideas would be fitting for services and other things that take place outside of the Mass.