MERGED: Where are these 40,000 plus Protestant denominations

[Nine_Two]

Nor do all Protestants say that it is. Methodists, for example, believe in Scripture, Tradition, Reason, and Experience.

Which Methodists are these? The Wesley’s and Whitefield taught Sola Scriptura, even if they did place some value on tradition they would reject it if it opposed their interpretation of scripture. An example of this is bishops, which Wesley came to believe were against scripture. This of course came around the same time he needed to be able to start ordaining his own preachers for service in Scotland.

 

[jmcrae]

Let’s try to end this thread by settling on a figure. Some say 40,000, a few say 25,000, some 33,000. let’s take an average and call it a day!

Why can’t we just say “a great many,” or, “an unknown number”?

Giving some huge unbelievable number just side-tracks the conversation. If what you’re trying to do is to start an argument and watch someone get mad, this is, in fact, the perfect way to do it - but if you’re trying to open someone’s mind to the idea that Jesus never intended for there to be Protestantism, then just skip the numbers, point out that more than one is more than Jesus actually established, and then get them figuring out which one, in fact, Jesus established. It’s reasonably simple to show that the Catholic Church, with Peter as her Pope, was around in Apostolic times - and is therefore, at the very least, a qualifying candidate.

 

[Mikeoffaith]

Let’s try to end this thread by settling on a figure. Some say 40,000, a few say 25,000, some 33,000. let’s take an average and call it a day!

Can’t we just say that it is a numbr equal to the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin?

 

[jmcrae]

Which Methodists are these?

The Methodists who are out there walking around today. It’s called the “Wesleyan Quadrilateral” and is based on original Wesleyan teaching.

The Wesley’s and Whitefield taught Sola Scriptura, even if they did place some value on tradition they would reject it if it opposed their interpretation of scripture. An example of this is bishops, which Wesley came to believe were against scripture. This of course came around the same time he needed to be able to start ordaining his own preachers for service in Scotland.

Methodists do, in fact, have Bishops.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Mikeoffaith,

Most of the angels I know are getting old … and will probably just sit that dance out!

Seriously, I am sort of caught on this number issue. Any effort to use anything (number, fact, name, etc.) for either an unreliable source or a source that has been questioned is simply wrong - unless, of course, you preface this with some type of disclaimer that not everyone is in agreement with the number. Averaging threee (or more) invalid numbrers will not produce a valid answer… Now, that was the easy part…

The issue as I see it (living in the Houston area) is that there are over 200 independent churches in the phone book (of course Texas loves its ‘independence’… we even have Independent School Districts!). So, those who would say, as I think was posted - that there are only a “…couple of hundred…” have missed what I think is the essence of the argument - because of their withdrawal from the Catholic Church and necessary embrace of SS - they will simply continue to splinter as long as there are just two Protestants on earth!

The ideas of there being millions of denominations (those who disagree with the teaching of the church they are in or with the preacher) has some philosophical appeal because I think that is what really happens. But, there really is no way to reduce this to a valid number… so… … I just don’t know on the best approach to developing a resolution here.

Of course, we don’t really kinow how many grains of sand there are on a particular beach (then we would get into a discussion if the count was done at high or low tide and just how are we defining beach, and is there so out there who would ‘inflate’ the number of grains?

God bless

Can’t we just say that it is a numbr equal to the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin?

 

[Portrait]

Hi, Portrait,

Let me complement your posts - they are a pleasure to read

God bless

Dear Tom,

Cordial greetings from the UK and thankyou for your kind comments respecting my posts.

God bless you also dear friend.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait:tiphat:

Pax

 

[1holycatholic]

The number is 40,001. I witnessed the birth of a “denomination” a few hours ago. Much like the birth of a star - breathtaking.

Yes, breathtaking - like a punch to the solar plexus. :blackeye:

 

[Nine_Two]

The Methodists who are out there walking around today. It’s called the “Wesleyan Quadrilateral” and is based on original Wesleyan teaching.

A quick search of that term shows what I said, Scripture has primacy.

Methodists do, in fact, have Bishops.

American Methodists have an office called “Bishop”, British Methodists do not. The Wesley’s opposed calling the chief office such because he didn’t think there was anything special about bishops. The American Methodist office doesn’t claim apostolic succession, or anything of the sort.

 

[ufamtobie]

As a Catholic I am bemused by the number of times I see this or even much higher figures than 40,000 denominations thrown in to bolster an argument about why sola scriptura is wrong. I think it unfair in debate if it can’t be substantiated.

I want to see a list of these 40,000 denominations. I personally know of perhaps 20 or 30.

Roveau,

There is only One Church Established by Jesus Christ, aka Catholic Church. If you can find just one more church founded by man is one more church to many.

Ufamtobie

 

[RonTheNewJew]

Advent Christian Church
Adventists
African Methodist Episcopal Church
African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
Agapemone
Aglipayans
Amana Church Society
Amish Church
Anabaptists
Anglican Communion
Anglo-Catholic movement
Armenian Church
Arminianism
Assemblies of God
Baptists
Behmenites
Bereans
Beroeans
Bible Christians
Bible societies
Brethren in Christ
Brethren
Broad Church
Brotherhood of the New Life
Brownists
Burghers
Calixtines
Calvinism
Calvinistic Methodist Church
Camisards
Campbellites
Catholic Apostolic Church
Christadelphians
Christian Catholic Church
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
Christian Endeavor
Christian Reformed Church
Christian Science
Christian socialism
Christians
Church of Christ, Scientist
Church of England
Church of the Brethren
Church of the Nazarene
Churches of Christ
Churches of God, General Conference
Community of Christ
Confessing Church
Congregationalism
Covenanters
Cumberland Presbyterian Church
Diggers
Disciples of Christ
dissenters
Doukhobors
Dukhobors
Dunkards
Dunkers
Dutch Reformed Church
England, Church of
Episcopal Church, Reformed
Episcopal Church
Ethical Culture movement
Evangelical Alliance
Evangelical and Reformed Church
Evangelical Church
Evangelical United Brethren Church
Familists
Fifth Monarchy Men
Foursquare Gospel, International Church of the
Free Church of Scotland
Freewill Baptist Church
Friends, Religious Society of
fundamentalism
German Baptist Brethren
German Catholics
German Reformed Church
Gideons
Glassites
Harmony Society
High Church
Huguenots
Hussites
Hutterian Brethren
Illuminati
Independents
Ireland, Church of
Jehovah’s Witnesses
Latter-day Saints, Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter Day Saints, Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of
Levelers
Lollardry
Low Church
Lutheranism
Mennonites
Methodism
Moral Re-Armament
Moravian Church
Mormons
National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States of America
New Church
New Jerusalem, Church of the
New Thought
nonconformists
Oxford Group
Oxford movement
Peculiar People
Pentecostalism
People’s Temple
Pietism
Plymouth Brethren
Presbyterianism
Protestant Episcopal Church
Protestantism
Puritanism
Quakers
quietism
Racovian Catechism
Ranters
Reformation
Reformed Church in America
Reformed Church in the United States
Reformed churches
Reformed Episcopal Church
Reformed Presbyterianism
Remonstrants
Renewed Church of the Brethren
River Brethren
Sabbatarians
Salvation Army
Scotland, Church of
Scotland, Free Church of
Second Adventists
separatists
Seventh-day Adventists
Seventh-Day Baptists
Shakers
Social Gospel
Socinianism
Solemn League and Covenant
South India, Church of
Southern Baptist Church
Taborites
Tractarian movement
Tunkers
Unitarian Universalist Association
Unitarianism
Unitas Fratrum
United Brethren in Christ
United Church of Canada
United Church of Christ
United Methodist Church
United Presbyterian Church
United Zion Church
Unity
Universalist Church of America
Utraquists
Vaudois
Waldenses
World Council of Churches
Yorker Brethren
Zionites

This is a partial list… once you get past these, look at all the independant churchs, the non-demoninationals, etc. I don’t know that there is 40,000 but there are certainly thousands and growing.

Oops. You missed one: Roman Catholicism. I’ve known some over the years. They don’t always agree with each other on things such as abortion, homosexuality, what Protestants are, or are not, other non-Christian religions, whether Islam is a one-God Judeo-Christian faith and religion, was Christ on earth the God the Son of the “Old” Testament, was the religion God gave to the patriarchs and Moses a form of Christ-centered religion and faith, etc.

Other denominations also have divisions within their overall basic doctrinal groupings. The idea might be that, in the final analysis, each individual has to read scripture and decide for themselves how to do what God the Son commanded.

 

[jmcrae]

A quick search of that term shows what I said, Scripture has primacy.

Right - but it’s not the sole rule of faith.

American Methodists have an office called “Bishop”, British Methodists do not. The Wesley’s opposed calling the chief office such because he didn’t think there was anything special about bishops. The American Methodist office doesn’t claim apostolic succession, or anything of the sort.

No, I realize that. They still have people called “Bishops” who rule over large numbers of parishes, and presumably some form of Bishops’ Council that makes decisions for the whole denomination - their parishes aren’t just little fly-by-nights that do whatever they want to do, based on private interpretation of Scripture.

I know that there are some forms of Protestantism that encourage that sort of thing (the Plymouth Brethren, for example), but Methodism isn’t one of them.

 

[Publisher]

Interesting that the list duplicates “Society of Friends” and “Quakers” as two separate groups…same group.

Also the list duplicated “Dunkers” and “Dunkards”…also called “River Brethren”…which I believe are now called “Brethren in Christ”…which is also listed.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, RonTheNewJew,

It was not missed becuase those that no longer follow the Bishop of Rome, the Vicar of Christ on Earth, are not Catholic. I have no idea what they are - but, those who encourage abortion, homosexual behavior and same sex unions are not in keeping with the teaching of the Church. Encouraing others to do is is heresy.

Does this mean that maybe there should have been a listing for “Abortion Encouraging Ex-Catholics” or a universaly term of just “Ex-Catholics” - I really do not know. But, there is not a division within the Church of Rome specific to matters of Faith or Morals.

There may be those who disagree with political or disciplinary actions taken by the Pope (was ‘enough’ done to punish those priests and religious who abused minors, was ‘enough’ done to help the vicitms of this sexual abuse, did the Vatican Bank engage in illegal money laundering and is the Pope responsible for this, etc.?) These are important matters but, not ones involving theology - sexually abusing others is a sin, stealing is a sin, and those who engage in moral depravity really are sinners.

I do not think the list you copied is in error.

God bless

Oops. You missed one: Roman Catholicism. I’ve known some over the years. They don’t always agree with each other on things such as abortion, homosexuality, what Protestants are, or are not, other non-Christian religions, whether Islam is a one-God Judeo-Christian faith and religion, was Christ on earth the God the Son of the “Old” Testament, was the religion God gave to the patriarchs and Moses a form of Christ-centered religion and faith, etc.

Other denominations also have divisions within their overall basic doctrinal groupings. The idea might be that, in the final analysis, each individual has to read scripture and decide for themselves how to do what God the Son commanded.

 

[Roy5]

Methodists in the USA have bishops. Not so in some other places, like UK.

Sometimes I think that the large number of Protestant denominations works in its favor. Most of these groups are busy recruiting, especially evangelicals. Almong Spanish Americans, for example, evangelicals have ‘converted’ many thousands of former Catholics.

 The real issue remains authority - at least for me. I am not attracted to sola scriptura Protestantism but liberal Protestantism does appeal to me. Perhaps it's just because I personally need the freedom to seek and weigh and question rather than have to believe what any church sets down as absolute truth. I guess I've come to the conclusion that this world is simply too mammoth, mysterious and miraculous for our finite minds to comprehend. So I live by faith in God, but am not convinced that we need to accept all sorts of doctrines, some of which were easier to believe centuries ago when there was more superstition and less education. For example, do I believe that St. Padre Pio levitated and bilocated? Try as I do, I don't. As for the stigmata, not sure. 

 Sometimes it can seem as though traditional Catholicism is a modified polytheism. True, saints are not seen as gods, but they are venerated, their intercession is requested, they exist for about every cause, vocation, country, etc. I even have trouble when I read that Mary, as much as I salute her, is Queen of the Universe, etc. That, to me, suggests that she has to be a goddess.

 Am I getting off the topic? Sorry. I really prefer to stay out of these Catholic vs Protestant encounters, but they are alluring. The God I worship looks at our hearts and not at our church affiliation. Heaven, I suspect, will be full of people from bizarre religions. They will be surprised to see us, and vice versa. My family heritage is mixed Catholic/Protestant and it's painful to read some of these wild accusations based on religious prejudice, often the result of false information.

 

[1holycatholic]

Oops. You missed one: Roman Catholicism. I’ve known some over the years. They don’t always agree with each other on things such as abortion, homosexuality, what Protestants are, or are not, other non-Christian religions, whether Islam is a one-God Judeo-Christian faith and religion, was Christ on earth the God the Son of the “Old” Testament, was the religion God gave to the patriarchs and Moses a form of Christ-centered religion and faith, etc.

Other denominations also have divisions within their overall basic doctrinal groupings. The idea might be that, in the final analysis, each individual has to read scripture and decide for themselves how to do what God the Son commanded.

Hogwash. The Church is not a denomination, it is, in fact, the Church named (a nomination as it were) by Christ “my Church.” Dissenters within the Church do not constitute a different Church.

 

[Adam_Warlock]

Oh yeah I heard about that. Fundamentalist Grapevine Baptist Church split and now there’s Fundamentalist Grapevine Baptist Church of the Nazarene

*of the Nazarene of Prophecy just formed. 40,002!

 

[elvisman]

Oops. You missed one: Roman Catholicism. I’ve known some over the years. They don’t always agree with each other on things such as abortion, homosexuality, what Protestants are, or are not, other non-Christian religions, whether Islam is a one-God Judeo-Christian faith and religion, was Christ on earth the God the Son of the “Old” Testament, was the religion God gave to the patriarchs and Moses a form of Christ-centered religion and faith, etc.

Other denominations also have divisions within their overall basic doctrinal groupings. The idea might be that, in the final analysis, each individual has to read scripture and decide for themselves how to do what God the Son commanded.

**You didn’t miss Catholicism because it’s not a denomination - in the sense that ALL of the others are - because they all have roots in the Tree that is the Catholic Church.

**As for those who claim to be “Catholic” yet disgree with dogmatic positions of the Church - they are either dissidents or Protestants. In short - you cannot consider yourself a Catholic and reject the Church’s doctrines.
That’s what the Reformers did . . .

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Publisher,

I really think it is possible that there were some duplications on the list provided. By the same token, given the number of so-called “Independent” chruches, I think there were a lot of omissions. From my reading of the various posts, I think the most accurate thing to say is that there are a multiplicity of Protestant denominations - and not even try to offer a number. (However, whatever number it is, it is a finite one … and, maybe with better research tools we can get closer. But, I just don’t know…)

But of this, I am sure: Christ founded One Church on Peter (Matt 16) Luther, Calvin and Henry VIII split from the Catholic Church and then layer after layer splintered from them. So, if you work your way back from them … you will eventually wind up with the Catholic Faith as the orignial Christian religion.

God bless

Interesting that the list duplicates “Society of Friends” and “Quakers” as two separate groups…same group.

Also the list duplicated “Dunkers” and “Dunkards”…also called “River Brethren”…which I believe are now called “Brethren in Christ”…which is also listed.

 

[Publisher]

Hi, Publisher,

I really think it is possible that there were some duplications on the list provided. By the same token, given the number of so-called “Independent” chruches, I think there were a lot of omissions. From my reading of the various posts, I think the most accurate thing to say is that there are a multiplicity of Protestant denominations - and not even try to offer a number. (However, whatever number it is, it is a finite one … and, maybe with better research tools we can get closer. But, I just don’t know…)

But of this, I am sure: Christ founded One Church on Peter (Matt 16) Luther, Calvin and Henry VIII split from the Catholic Church and then layer after layer splintered from them. So, if you work your way back from them** … you will eventually wind up with the Catholic Faith as the orignial Christian religion.**

God bless

Only if I work “my way back” using Catholic histories…non-Catholic…and some still Catholic…whom many call “reconstructionists”…“liberal”…“heretics”…tell a completely different story than Catholics tell.

 

[1holycatholic]

Don’t forget:The Western Branch of American Reform Presbylutheranism

**"**The Schism of Lourdes in 1573 marked the Presbylutherans’ official split from the Roman Catholic Church over the Presbylutherans’ right to attend church with wet hair. That right has since been abolished."
​

Which is about as good a raison d’êtreas as offered by any actual denomination. :coffeeread: