MERGED: Where are these 40,000 plus Protestant denominations

[elvisman]

Perhaps the number of “44,000” is incorrect? However if thre is more than ONE [and certainly there are] can one not ask, because Jesus Founded only One New Faith, One New Covenant, One New Church. READ Eph. Chpter 4.[in excess of over 100 verses in the N.T. prove this]…

Is Jesus Himself the Father of these churches as He is of His CC? How can this be?

Love and prayers,
Pat

**Jesus began ONE Church - the Catholic Church (Matt. 16:18-19). He gave authority to that ONE Church - and that Church alone (Matt. 16:19, 18:15-18, John 16:12-15). He guaranteed that ONE, Church that the Holy Spirit would guide it to ALL truth. Paul referred to it as the “pillar and foundation of truth”. **

In John 17, he prayed fervently for the unity of that ONE Church.

**In Eph. 4:3-6 - Paul tells the Ephesians to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace: **
**ONE body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; **
**ONE Lord, one faith, ONE baptism; **
ONE God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

It is the mystical Body of Christ.

All Protestant denominations are seperated from the unity of that ONE Body of Christ. We pray for their return to the unity that is Body of Christ.

 

[Dokimas]

WRONG.

It lists them as follows:
Independents** (about 22000)
Protestants (about 9000)
"Marginals (about 1600) **
Orthodox** (781) **
Roman Catholics** (242) **
Anglicans** (168) **

---

The number 33,000 comes from these 6 major groups
****22000 + 9000 + 1600 + 781 + 242 + 168 = ****33,791

---

Independents (non-denominational sects), Protestants (mainline), Anglicans and Marginals are sub-categories under "Protestant".

Roman Catholic demoninations: 242

 

[Publisher]

Roman Catholic demoninations: 242

“More than one is too many.”

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Could someone explain to me this 242 Catholic denominations stuff?

 

[Todd520]

Actually no.

Actually Elvis, the answer is **YES **not no
Yes, their web site now indicates 9k Christian Denominations
Yes, they count new denominations for each country
Yes, the stats in your post are misleading

 

[Roy5]

Just want to re-emphasis one point.

A difference between Catholicism and Protestantism that is at the heart of all this is the freedom Protestants exercise in interpreting scripture as they choose to.

The choice is not all that simple.

Protestantism is very disunited, although there really are two main streams. One is liberal/moderate mainstream Protestantism which emphasizes the 'big tent'. In other words, it permits major differences of opinion. Thousands of such local churches hold together members with varying perspectives, rather like the USA holds together people of different and even conflicting views. Actually, they can take pride in their willingness to do that. "Think and let think" as John Wesley said 250 or so years ago.

 The other major branch of Protestantism is fervently sola scriptura. They can be quite dogmatic and have spun off many groups who disgree over this or that. The leaders of each group are likely to be quite sure that they have the full truth.

 Now, Catholicism requires their faithful to believe certain doctrines (although many actually don't). Thus a faithful Catholic has to believe, for example, that the Pope is infallibility when he speaks ex cathedra, that Mary was a perpetual virgin, is the Queen of Heaven, born sinless and always sinless, who was assumed into heaven, that invoking saints for special blessings is not only acceptable but encouraged, that transubstantiation takes place when the priest consecrates the communion elements, that the priest can absolve sinners, etc. 

 There is really no deviation permitted on such basic matters. And this is where dolks like me - raised with a mixed Catholic/Protestant heritage - have trouble. We certainly cannot be fundamentalist Protestants, but there is a fundamentalism in traditional Catholicism as well. No authentic freedom when it comes to doubting even one of the major tenets of Catholicism. If the magisterium says it, that becomes the ultimate and essential truth!

  So, how can I avoid finding liberal Protestantism attractive? It honors my interest in exploring doctrine without being told what I must believe.

 

[Todd520]

Could someone explain to me this 242 Catholic denominations stuff?

If church A is in Canada, USA and Mexico, it counts as three denominations instead of one.

Thus their country specific stats are probably good but their WW roll-up is useless.

 

[Publisher]

  So, how can I avoid finding liberal Protestantism attractive? It honors my interest in exploring doctrine without being told what I must believe.

And also that I stand within the Liberty and Freedom of Christ…I do not need to fear for my soul seeking for Truth.

 

[elvisman]

Roman Catholic demoninations: 242

That’s because you simply don’t understand Rites, as ooposed to denominations. Nor do you understand the difference betwwen a dissident group that is not in communion with the Church and a Rite that is.

A rudimentary study of history would clear things up for you.

 

[elvisman]

Actually Elvis, the answer is **YES **not no
Yes, their web site now indicates 9k Christian Denominations
Yes, they count new denominations for each country
Yes, the stats in your post are misleading

Ummm . . . in your last post, you listed only 38 Protestant denominations.
I responded with the fact that there are more than that in my town alone.

Do you actually believe that there are only 38 denominations of Protestantism?

 

[Todd520]

Ummm . . . in your last post, you listed only 38 Protestant denominations.
I responded with the fact that there are more than that in my town alone.

Do you actually believe that there are only 38 denominations of Protestantism?

of course not. I showed my work by dividing with 238 countries. I expect the real number is between 100 and 1,000

 

[Dokimas]

**That’s because you simply don’t **understand Rites, as ooposed to denominations. Nor do you understand the difference betwwen a dissident group that is not in communion with the Church and a Rite that is.

A rudimentary study of history would clear things up for you.

Silly person. I got the info from your post as YOU were adding up all the denominations.

 

[elvisman]

Silly person. I got the info from your post as YOU were adding up all the denominations.

Hey - don’t blame me - I told you all that this is what is written in the “World Christian Encyclopedia”.

**I also qualified it by stating that they got the Catholic information wrong. they made the same blunder as you because they don’t understand the difference between Rite, dissident and denomination. I DO understand their bias, though.

After all - it WAS written by Protestants . . .

 

[elvisman]

of course not. I showed my work by dividing with 238 countries. I expect the real number is between 100 and 1,000

Where do you get 238 countries?
Most social statisticians agree that there are only 195 countries in the world.

 

[Nicea325]

If church A is in Canada, USA and Mexico, it counts as three denominations instead of one.

Thus their country specific stats are probably good but their WW roll-up is useless.

That does not make any sense at all. If church A is Roman Catholic and is located in the U.S.,Canada and Mexico all belong to the same church,not three different ones.

 

[Todd520]

Where do you get 238 countries?
Most social statisticians agree that there are only 195 countries in the world.

Well, the Christian Database currently counts 239 countries in their reporting, just follow the link I provided.
If the world figure is 195, they really do have issues with data integrity.

 

[PRmerger]

That does not make any sense at all. If church A is Roman Catholic and is located in the U.S.,Canada and Mexico all belong to the same church,not three different ones.

Right.

However, if church B is Assemblies of God and is located in the US, Canada and Mexico, those ought to be counted as 3 different ones, as each is independent of the other in authority and doctrine. Heck, there’s probably 45 different AOG denominations just in my large metropolitan area, each stating their own doctrines, based on their own fallible preacher’s interpretations.

 

[PRmerger]

"I personally believe, based on my experiences, that there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Protestant denominations, and the main reason for this is sola scriptura. Now, I admit that my “experiences” constitute anecdotal evidence, but I have found nothing to dissuade me from the notion that my anecdotal evidence is not indicative of a much more widespread phenomenon. And, for clarity’s sake, I define a Protestant denomination as a religious unit of one or more persons that has: 1) A particular set of beliefs on matters of faith and morals, which may or may not be unique to that group; and 2) Has its own structure of authority that ultimately answers to no human being outside of the denomination.

In the last 15 years or so, I have talked to hundreds and hundreds of Protestants, either on the radio, via email, on the phone, or in person. I have heard from the mouths of at least 2–3 dozen or so of those folks that while they may attend a church in a particular denomination, let’s say a Baptist church for example, they are not, however, members of that denomination. They have all said something close to this: “I only go to that church because that pastor comes the closest to what I believe.” The first time I heard that about 15 years ago it blew me away. But I have heard it time and time again since.

In other words,** these folks are their own little denomination within a denomination**. **They have their own set of beliefs and they are their own authority for what is, in essence, their own private denomination. They are the Pope, the pastor, and the chief theologian of their own personal denomination. ** Now, out of the several hundred Protestants I’ve talked to, the number who have said something along these lines accounts for about, let’s say, 2–3% of the total. I think the true percentage who are in this situation is much higher than that, however, because I have actually not even addressed this particular point with the vast majority of the Protestants I have talked to. So, there may be many more of the Protestants I’ve talked to who are in this same situation, but the topic simply never came up in our discussions. Plus, I have talked to any number of Protestants who have flat out stated that they do not need any church, all they need is a Bible. So, again, **I believe the percentage of Protestants who belong to their own private denomination is rather high. ** But, let’s use the 2–3% figure just to be conservative.

So, estimating that 2–3% of Protestants, just in this country, are members of their own private denominations –** they answer to no human authority in matters of faith and morals outside of themselves, and they have a particular set of beliefs they call their own – then we’re looking at the number of denominations as being in the millions. ** I have said many times that if God leaves us on this earth long enough there will eventually be one Protestant denomination for every Protestant or, at the least, one Protestant denomination for every Protestant family. And what is the main reason for this phenomenon? Sola Scriptura. Folks interpreting the Bible on their own to arrive at their own particular set of beliefs and subject only to their own authority.

Plus, I disagree that you cannot blame Sola Scriptura for the disunity of faith within Protestantism that results from the “efforts to subordinate the authority of Scripture.” The essence of Sola Scriptura, whether its adherents realize it or not, is not the authority o f Scripture, but rather the authority of each individual’s interpretation of Scripture. Big difference. The authority of Scripture, and the authority given by Christ to the Church He founded, are actually usurped by sola scriptura adherents, again, whether they realize it or not. And this indirect, or inadvertent, usurpation of authority by the individual, which allows him to “authoritatively” pronounce right from wrong, true doctrine from false, all based on his own private authority, inevitably leads to individuals believing they have the authority to directly and knowingly usurp the authority of Scripture and the Church. It all stems from the same root." Taken from the latest newsletter of apologist John Martignoni (bold mine)

 

[jmcrae]

"I personally believe, based on my experiences, that there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Protestant denominations, and the main reason for this is sola scriptura. Now, I admit that my “experiences” constitute anecdotal evidence, but I have found nothing to dissuade me from the notion that my anecdotal evidence is not indicative of a much more widespread phenomenon. And, for clarity’s sake, I define a Protestant denomination as a religious unit of one or more persons that has: 1) A particular set of beliefs on matters of faith and morals, which may or may not be unique to that group; and 2) Has its own structure of authority that ultimately answers to no human being outside of the denomination.

In the last 15 years or so, I have talked to hundreds and hundreds of Protestants, either on the radio, via email, on the phone, or in person. I have heard from the mouths of at least 2–3 dozen or so of those folks that while they may attend a church in a particular denomination, let’s say a Baptist church for example, they are not, however, members of that denomination. They have all said something close to this: “I only go to that church because that pastor comes the closest to what I believe.” The first time I heard that about 15 years ago it blew me away. But I have heard it time and time again since.

In other words,** these folks are their own little denomination within a denomination**. **They have their own set of beliefs and they are their own authority for what is, in essence, their own private denomination. They are the Pope, the pastor, and the chief theologian of their own personal denomination. ** Now, out of the several hundred Protestants I’ve talked to, the number who have said something along these lines accounts for about, let’s say, 2–3% of the total. I think the true percentage who are in this situation is much higher than that, however, because I have actually not even addressed this particular point with the vast majority of the Protestants I have talked to. So, there may be many more of the Protestants I’ve talked to who are in this same situation, but the topic simply never came up in our discussions. Plus, I have talked to any number of Protestants who have flat out stated that they do not need any church, all they need is a Bible. So, again, **I believe the percentage of Protestants who belong to their own private denomination is rather high. ** But, let’s use the 2–3% figure just to be conservative.

So, estimating that 2–3% of Protestants, just in this country, are members of their own private denominations –** they answer to no human authority in matters of faith and morals outside of themselves, and they have a particular set of beliefs they call their own – then we’re looking at the number of denominations as being in the millions. ** I have said many times that if God leaves us on this earth long enough there will eventually be one Protestant denomination for every Protestant or, at the least, one Protestant denomination for every Protestant family. And what is the main reason for this phenomenon? Sola Scriptura. Folks interpreting the Bible on their own to arrive at their own particular set of beliefs and subject only to their own authority.

Plus, I disagree that you cannot blame Sola Scriptura for the disunity of faith within Protestantism that results from the “efforts to subordinate the authority of Scripture.” The essence of Sola Scriptura, whether its adherents realize it or not, is not the authority o f Scripture, but rather the authority of each individual’s interpretation of Scripture. Big difference. The authority of Scripture, and the authority given by Christ to the Church He founded, are actually usurped by sola scriptura adherents, again, whether they realize it or not. And this indirect, or inadvertent, usurpation of authority by the individual, which allows him to “authoritatively” pronounce right from wrong, true doctrine from false, all based on his own private authority, inevitably leads to individuals believing they have the authority to directly and knowingly usurp the authority of Scripture and the Church. It all stems from the same root." Taken from the latest newsletter of apologist John Martignoni (bold mine)

Sorry, but I disagree with him on that point. It is not possible to create a Protestant denomination out of thin air, or by accident - certainly not by attending a Church and disagreeing with its teachings, without actually taking steps to do something about it. It is not possible, in any religion or subset of religious systems, to become a “denomination of one” - and it’s especially impossible to do so unwittingly.

In the earliest days of Protestantism, it took an Act of Parliament (or local government equivalent), and even today, there are the minimum requirements of any organization, to gain religious tax exemption.

 

[Nicea325]

Right.

However, if church B is Assemblies of God and is located in the US, Canada and Mexico, those ought to be counted as 3 different ones, as each is independent of the other in authority and doctrine. Heck, there’s probably 45 different AOG denominations just in my large metropolitan area, each stating their own doctrines, based on their own fallible preacher’s interpretations.

Indeed. Authority has always been an issue with many Protestants from the get-go.