MERGED: Where are these 40,000 plus Protestant denominations

  • Thread starter Thread starter roveau
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Just want to re-emphasis one point.

A difference between Catholicism and Protestantism that is at the heart of all this is the freedom Protestants exercise in interpreting scripture as they choose to.
Code:
The choice is not all that simple.

Protestantism is very disunited, although there really are two main streams. One is liberal/moderate mainstream Protestantism which emphasizes the 'big tent'. In other words, it permits major differences of opinion. Thousands of such local churches hold together members with varying perspectives, rather like the USA holds together people of different and even conflicting views. Actually, they can take pride in their willingness to do that. "Think and let think" as John Wesley said 250 or so years ago.

 The other major branch of Protestantism is fervently sola scriptura. They can be quite dogmatic and have spun off many groups who disgree over this or that. The leaders of each group are likely to be quite sure that they have the full truth.

 Now, Catholicism requires their faithful to believe certain doctrines (although many actually don't). Thus a faithful Catholic has to believe, for example, that the Pope is infallibility when he speaks ex cathedra, that Mary was a perpetual virgin, is the Queen of Heaven, born sinless and always sinless, who was assumed into heaven, that invoking saints for special blessings is not only acceptable but encouraged, that transubstantiation takes place when the priest consecrates the communion elements, that the priest can absolve sinners, etc. 

 There is really no deviation permitted on such basic matters. And this is where dolks like me - raised with a mixed Catholic/Protestant heritage - have trouble. We certainly cannot be fundamentalist Protestants, but there is a fundamentalism in traditional Catholicism as well. No authentic freedom when it comes to doubting even one of the major tenets of Catholicism. If the magisterium says it, that becomes the ultimate and essential truth!

  So, how can I avoid finding liberal Protestantism attractive? It honors my interest in exploring doctrine without being told what I must believe.
Dear Roy5,

Cordial greetings dear friend. I should like to reply to your comments above.

Liberal Protestantism is decidedly unattractive because it delights in debunking or rethinking the fundamental tenets of Christian orthodoxy, shared by all Christians, and leads to moral relativism; a wishy-washy sort of religion that is totally effete and unfit for purpose as regards meeting the pressing needs of our troubled age.

What is so very unappealing about being told what to believe? That is surely more an anti-authoritarian issue; it reflects the desire of fallen man to live his life on his own terms and to construct his own belief system. Sometimes this problem is so deep-seated that even when convinced of the error of his ways, doctrinally or morally, man continues with obdurate independence to scratch and claw for autonomy. Moreover, the alternative of going solo and “thinking and let think” leads one along a very subjective path to an ultimate quagmire of competing opinions and often bizzare insights, far removed from authentic and apostolic Christianity. In short it leads to both moral laxity and doctrinal bedlam, witness the terminal decline of all the mainline Protestant denominations. If John Wesley, for example, could observe the deplorable state of modern liberal Methodism he would surely turn in his grave and repent that he ever advocated his “Think and let think” policy.

In our rebellious age, with its intense dislike of dogmatism, especially in religious matters, it is exceedingly difficult for men to acknowledge the sin of defiant independence as the root of all their problems. Nevertheless, this is the very cause of all our ills and it is of no use brushing the matter under the carpet and seeking to rationalize the problem by offering specious explanations.

When we contrast the manifestly obvious uncertainties of private judgement then, and then only, can we see the appeal of the infallible and authoritative Catholic Church. The fragmented condition of Protestantism and the unbroken unity of Rome is apparent even to the most casual unbiased observer. Men are confronted today, as indeed they always have been, with a multiplicity of rival opinions and the infallible guide that leads men to a common conviction as they share in the life of the one true Fold under the one Shepherd. The so-called dissentiant voices within the Roman obedience who argue against and sadly reject the teaching of the Magisterium, do not destabalise the unity of the Catholic Church one bit. These dissentiant voices are just that, they are not the Magisterium and hence have no authority whatsoever. All this demostrates is that the Church contains some arrogant and rebellious men who will not submit to the authority of their Church.

BTW, none of this is a matter of opinion or personal taste, but a self-evident truth which emerges from the character of God. Now just as we would infer from the justice of God that deception by Him is inconceivable, so we may likewise infer from God’s love for His Church and His high purposes for it that is inconceivable that He should leave it to fall into error and fragment into a tragic multiplicity of denominations. Thus we can clearly see that a visible guide and an authoritative Magisterium is an inevitable consequence of the character and purposes of God.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Hi, Byzantine_Wolf,

Apparently, in your ‘enthusiasm’ to get the answer you wanted - you failed to preceive my tongue in cheek response. In conscience, I can not allow you to just snip this part off (apparently you are quite good at this) and claim it as the answer…and then move on like nothing has happened. NOTE: THE GATES OF HELL (JUST LIKE CHRIST SAID) HAVE NOT PREVAILED.

And, please, note what the word prevail means: final victory. It ain’t over yet - and while we are closer than we were yesterday - Christ will come in Judgment of the entire world. For a review, may I suggest to read Revelations.
Thank you. That’s all I wanted to know.

So, I guess this means you are back to sifting through more of your material. Hopefully, no one else will try hyperbole with you - lest their words be distorted by you like mine were!

The reason I brought that up was a source that a lot of Roman Catholics use to say there are “33,000” denominations or so (the number gets higher and higher depending on who you’re talking to and how irrational their anti-Protestant rhetoric gets) also says there are 242+ Roman Catholic denominations and over 700 Eastern Orthodox denominations. I was calling for a consistent use of sources. I was met mostly with, “No, that’s wrong because the Roman Catholic Church is one…but we’re still going to use the 33,000/40,000/5-million-bajillion denomination number because it proves our point!”
This has been answered several times: there are multiple Protestant denominations all clamoring that their’s is the tre following of Christ - and disparaging others in the process. The Catholic Church has different “rites” with the Latin Rite being the best known - but, these are not denominations in the same sense as various types of Baptist, Lutherans, Methodists, and what have you.

Where you are correct is that the Eastern Orthodox split from Rome, and as I have said before the Great Schism is truly a great scandal. But, you know, Judas was a scandal to the Apostles, too. Reality is hard - and the use of free will to do evil is just what we are seeing.

Please read the entire material and just don’t ‘cherry-pick’ what you want. This shows a contempt for truthfulness that is distressing to others and discredits yourself.

God bless
 
Hi, Rightlydivide,

There really is no conflict between Tradition (which you correctly put chronologically ahead of Scripture) and Scripture. What makes this an intersting question is that Protestants uniformly (to the best of my knowledge) deny the equal position of Tradition with Scripture - so, there can **NOT **be more than one interpretation, because the Magisterium gives the interpretation.

Contrast this with the bitter and divisive fruits of Sola Scriptura . Ultimately, you have this splintering of splinters (Luther was shocked at others not taking his view - and actually splitting and coming up with their own ideas! Imagine… ‘reforming’ a ‘Reformer’ … this must have been particularly annoying!) The fact that Apostolic Tradition is denied and Scripture is beset with everyone giving their own personal interpretations - I can easily see where falsehood can (and has) developed. In fact, look at the multiple and conflicting Scriptural interpretations involving: the necessity for Trinatarian Baptism (Matt 28), the Real Presence (John 6), men [ordained] having the delegated power of God to forgive sin (John 21).

So, since you began your question off with an “If”, does this mean it is a hypothetical question? If so, I think I have answered it. If, however, you have a specific incident of the Catholic Church giving more than one interpretation of Tradition and Scripture, please provide it so it can be discussed.

God bless
If there are more than one interpretation of Tradition and Scripture, does that also prove them false?

How many different groups does it take to prove something false PR merger?
I am examing the presuppositions behind the belief that more than one group disagreeing about the same thing negates the Truth of the belief.
I can elaborate if need be.
You see, in this case, I believe it is faulty apologetics and reasoning. One that actually gets used against us both atheists who argue essentially the same point about Christianity!
Thanks
 
There really is no conflict between Tradition (which you correctly put chronologically ahead of Scripture) and Scripture. What makes this an intersting question is that Protestants uniformly (to the best of my knowledge) deny the equal position of Tradition with Scripture - so, there can **NOT **be more than one interpretation, because the Magisterium gives the interpretation.

Contrast this with the bitter and divisive fruits of Sola Scriptura . Ultimately, you have this splintering of splinters (Luther was shocked at others not taking his view - and actually splitting and coming up with their own ideas! Imagine… ‘reforming’ a ‘Reformer’ … this must have been particularly annoying!) The fact that Apostolic Tradition is denied and Scripture is beset with everyone giving their own personal interpretations - I can easily see where falsehood can (and has) developed. In fact, look at the multiple and conflicting Scriptural interpretations involving: the necessity for Trinatarian Baptism (Matt 28), the Real Presence (John 6), men [ordained] having the delegated power of God to forgive sin (John 21).

So, since you began your question off with an “If”, does this mean it is a hypothetical question? If so, I think I have answered it. If, however, you have a specific incident of the Catholic Church giving more than one interpretation of Tradition and Scripture, please provide it so it can be discussed.

God bless
There are very few instances of the Church specifying a particular interpretation of Scripture.
 
Hi, Todd520,

I honestly think you have misapplied this Scriptural statement!

Let’s take a look at the context from where you got it (Matt 22:34-40) to get a better appreciation of what is actually going on.

34
When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together,
35
and one of them [a scholar of the law] tested him by asking,
36
“Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?”
37
He said to him, “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38
This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39
The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40
The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”

The context here is that Jesus is being challenged by those who want to discredit Him - and, of course, Christ discredits His challengers. The context also is in reference to the OLD Testament - and, this is covenant that Christ came to not only fulfill but to go beyond with the NEW Testament.

Notice how Jesus takes this - and then ‘raises the bar’ in John 13:34-35
34
I give you a new commandment: 12 love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another.
35
This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."

Your reduction to two elements intended for the OT is simply incorrect. You have claimed these two, and then when challenged, state that something else helps with this or that.

The idea that you or anyone else can determine what is essential is simply a tradation of men. Here are just two examples:

Christ said that He was giving us His Body to eat - and if we did not eat it then we would not have life in us - yet Protestants deny the Real Presence (John 6)

Chrsit breathed on the Apostles and gave them the Holy Spirit and told them they now had the power to forgive men’s sins - yet Protestants deny this can claim they can still go directly to God as in the OT.

God bless
For essential beliefs for all Christians, I would have to go with:

  1. *] You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.

    *] You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

    Relatively speaking, everything else is icing on the cake.
 
Elvis, since this is such a big challenge, i suggest you define what you mean by “**essential **Christian beliefs”
Absolutely not.
I’m not the one going around touting that there is a list.
Those who claim it should identify it.
 
NOPE, stop expanding the list. There are only two essentials (per Jesus) and everything else is additive.
Okay, Todd -
You have officially claimed that there are only TWO essential Christian beliefs.
Araninski’s list is somewhat longer but still quite lacking.
 
Hi tqualey,
I agree there are many other important things Jesus said, but isn’t this the only time scripture is this specific on the essential commandments?

If you followed these two, wouldn’t you then be filled with the Holy Spirit?
Regular prayer, attening services, etc are a natural byprouct of these two.

Hi, Todd520,

I honestly think you have misapplied this Scriptural statement!

Let’s take a look at the context from where you got it (Matt 22:34-40) to get a better appreciation of what is actually going on.

34 When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together,
35 and one of them [a scholar of the law] tested him by asking,
36 “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?”
37 He said to him, “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38 This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39 The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”

The context here is that Jesus is being challenged by those who want to discredit Him - and, of course, Christ discredits His challengers. The context also is in reference to the OLD Testament - and, this is covenant that Christ came to not only fulfill but to go beyond with the NEW Testament.

Notice how Jesus takes this - and then ‘raises the bar’ in John 13:34-35
34 I give you a new commandment: 12 love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another.
35 This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."

Your reduction to two elements intended for the OT is simply incorrect. You have claimed these two, and then when challenged, state that something else helps with this or that.

The idea that you or anyone else can determine what is essential is simply a tradation of men. Here are just two examples:

Christ said that He was giving us His Body to eat - and if we did not eat it then we would not have life in us - yet Protestants deny the Real Presence (John 6)

Chrsit breathed on the Apostles and gave them the Holy Spirit and told them they now had the power to forgive men’s sins - yet Protestants deny this can claim they can still go directly to God as in the OT.

God bless
 
Shalom elvisman

Well there’s a big list of beliefs, but some of the essential ones would be:

1)Love God with all you heart, soul, mind, body, etc.
2)Accept Jesus , because that’s the only way one can have the Father, by having Son., through Him you will live again.
3)Follow His commandments.
4)Preach His Gospel.
5)Wait His Second Coming and do not let, His Second Coming surprise you like a thief in the night, but be prepared for it, because we are sons of light and not of darkness.
6)If you have the opportunity in your lifetime, baptize.
7)Celebrate the Lord’s Supper. (The way you believe it is to be celebrated, God knows your heart, but you have to keep it.)

I can’t think of more, if you want you can post me a list of different believes and I will try to order them on essential and non-essential.

But IMO read your bible we are supposed to know the doctrine the Lord gave us. For the law we have now is of the spirit. It has been written on our hearts, we know them but do we keep them?

Yahweh bless you.
Thanks for having the courage to respond. Like I said - you’re the very first Protestant that I have asked this question to who has responded.

I have noticed, however, that you have missed a few right off the bat and that is the reason Jesus left an authority here on earth. You also put a few there that wouldn
’t really be considered “essential” Christian beliefs.**
 
Absolutely not.
I’m not the one going around touting that there is a list.
Those who claim it should identify it.
Copout! You issued the challenge so you are responsible for providing the framework
I had this debate on another thread and issued a challenge to any Protestant that could give me a list of the essential Christian beliefs.
 
Hi, Todd520,

The honest answer is, “No”. Let me explain…
Hi tqualey,
I agree there are many other important things Jesus said, but isn’t this the only time scripture is this specific on the essential commandments?

If you followed these two, wouldn’t you then be filled with the Holy Spirit?
Regular prayer, attening services, etc are a natural byprouct of these two.
This would be like asking: “Aren’t the two most important things to life: air and water?”

If you think, “Well, yes, you won’t live long without either!” and let it go at that …you would soon be dead! 😉 Stop for a minute and ask yourself, how long will you live without food? without protection from the elements (clothing & shelter)? Air and water are essential - BUT they are not the only essentials. Maintaining human life is complex - and, it must be realized that following Christ is also complex. While we can all say, “Oh, no, I just follow Christ and everything else takes care of itself” - I submit this is a most dangerous delusion.

Look at the destrucitve consequences of Sola Scriptura and its immediate product of private interpretation and the thousands and thousands of Protestant denominations that have splintered from the Church founded by Christ on Peter. Here you have clear examples of Christ’s own words:
  • Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you - (John 6) and Protestants say this is just a figure of speech, Christ really did not mean this!
  • Receive the Holy Spirit, whose sins you shall forgive are forgiven them - (Johnb 20) and Protestants say this is just a figure of speech, Christ really did not mean this!
  • Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven (Matt 16) and Protestants say this is just a figure of speech, Christ really did not mean this!
So, while we can claim to be following Christ, when we ignore specifically what He told us to do - just who are we kidding?

God bless
 
To tqualey:

Actually, I knew you weren’t entirely serious in my response, but my point was using the standards I think most Roman Catholics and even Eastern Orthodox were used, I wanted my question answered. You gave a response to that and using your standards, and then leaped to another non sequitor discussion of Peter being the rock. I was merely responding to the heart of the matter and sticking to topic.

As for the response to the Roman Catholic numbers - the issue isn’t whether or not there are more than one Protestant denominations. The issue is that some Roman Catholics use numbers like 33,000 without realizing that that same source says there are 200+ Catholic denominations and 700+ Orthodox denominations. To say, “That number’s not true!” or “You’re not understanding the context of that number!”…well, that’s my point. These numbers are inflated and do not represent literal bodies - sometimes not even real Christian bodies. The problem is many of these same Roman Catholics (such as yourself, as you dropped the 40,000 number in an earlier post) will not use those same standards regarding Protestant numbers as they will Catholic numbers. That’s not only inconsistency but intellectual dishonesty.

As Wampa said, far more accurate language is at a Roman Catholic apologist’s disposal.
 
Hi, Todd520,

This is not a copout. You and others are claiming that there are ‘essential’ and ‘non-essential’ elements of Christ’s message. The question is what is this based on? Christ did not say something like, “Heads up, I want you to pay strict attention to this!”

The determination of ‘essential’ vs ‘non-essential’ elements is what keeps the thousands of Protestant groups in constant turmoil - because they all claim different things are ‘essential’ and work on the traditions of men rather than working with the Apostolic Traditions of the Catholic Church - the Church founded by Christ on Peter (Matt 16).

Also note, it is the INABILITY to come up with even the skimpies of lists of ‘essential’ elements that keeps Protestant groups from uniting. It is not that Protestants have not tried to unite (such on-going splintering is an embarrassment to them) the issue is: they can’t. To unite would mean ‘a compromise of truth’ at least your version of truth vs my version of truth. Given human nature and pride - well… the fact that few have merged and more have splintered and become ‘independent’ speaks for itself.

God bless
Copout! You issued the challenge so you are responsible for providing the framework
 
No, it lacks integrity as a debate tactic.

Elvis issued a challenge without defining the playing field or criteria,
Then when people responded, he told them when they were in-bounds or out-of-bounds with their answers.
So in effect he is slowly revealing his hidden criteria, to his advantage.
Hi, Todd520,

This is not a copout. You and others are claiming that there are ‘essential’ and ‘non-essential’ elements of Christ’s message. The question is what is this based on? Christ did not say something like, “Heads up, I want you to pay strict attention to this!”

The determination of ‘essential’ vs ‘non-essential’ elements is what keeps the thousands of Protestant groups in constant turmoil - because they all claim different things are ‘essential’ and work on the traditions of men rather than working with the Apostolic Traditions of the Catholic Church - the Church founded by Christ on Peter (Matt 16).

Also note, it is the INABILITY to come up with even the skimpies of lists of ‘essential’ elements that keeps Protestant groups from uniting. It is not that Protestants have not tried to unite (such on-going splintering is an embarrassment to them) the issue is: they can’t. To unite would mean ‘a compromise of truth’ at least your version of truth vs my version of truth. Given human nature and pride - well… the fact that few have merged and more have splintered and become ‘independent’ speaks for itself.

God bless
 
Hi, Portrait,

Let me complement your posts - they are a pleasure to read 👍

God bless
Dear Roy5,

Cordial greetings dear friend. I should like to reply to your comments above.

Liberal Protestantism is decidedly unattractive because it delights in debunking or rethinking the fundamental tenets of Christian orthodoxy, shared by all Christians, and leads to moral relativism; a wishy-washy sort of religion that is totally effete and unfit for purpose as regards meeting the pressing needs of our troubled age.

What is so very unappealing about being told what to believe? That is surely more an anti-authoritarian issue; it reflects the desire of fallen man to live his life on his own terms and to construct his own belief system. Sometimes this problem is so deep-seated that even when convinced of the error of his ways, doctrinally or morally, man continues with obdurate independence to scratch and claw for autonomy. Moreover, the alternative of going solo and “thinking and let think” leads one along a very subjective path to an ultimate quagmire of competing opinions and often bizzare insights, far removed from authentic and apostolic Christianity. In short it leads to both moral laxity and doctrinal bedlam, witness the terminal decline of all the mainline Protestant denominations. If John Wesley, for example, could observe the deplorable state of modern liberal Methodism he would surely turn in his grave and repent that he ever advocated his “Think and let think” policy.

In our rebellious age, with its intense dislike of dogmatism, especially in religious matters, it is exceedingly difficult for men to acknowledge the sin of defiant independence as the root of all their problems. Nevertheless, this is the very cause of all our ills and it is of no use brushing the matter under the carpet and seeking to rationalize the problem by offering specious explanations.

When we contrast the manifestly obvious uncertainties of private judgement then, and then only, can we see the appeal of the infallible and authoritative Catholic Church. The fragmented condition of Protestantism and the unbroken unity of Rome is apparent even to the most casual unbiased observer. Men are confronted today, as indeed they always have been, with a multiplicity of rival opinions and the infallible guide that leads men to a common conviction as they share in the life of the one true Fold under the one Shepherd. The so-called dissentiant voices within the Roman obedience who argue against and sadly reject the teaching of the Magisterium, do not destabalise the unity of the Catholic Church one bit. These dissentiant voices are just that, they are not the Magisterium and hence have no authority whatsoever. All this demostrates is that the Church contains some arrogant and rebellious men who will not submit to the authority of their Church.

BTW, none of this is a matter of opinion or personal taste, but a self-evident truth which emerges from the character of God. Now just as we would infer from the justice of God that deception by Him is inconceivable, so we may likewise infer from God’s love for His Church and His high purposes for it that is inconceivable that He should leave it to fall into error and fragment into a tragic multiplicity of denominations. Thus we can clearly see that a visible guide and an authoritative Magisterium is an inevitable consequence of the character and purposes of God.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Thank you. That’s all I wanted to know.

The reason I brought that up was a source that a lot of Roman Catholics use to say there are “33,000” denominations or so (the number gets higher and higher depending on who you’re talking to and how irrational their anti-Protestant rhetoric gets) also says there are 242+ Roman Catholic denominations and over 700 Eastern Orthodox denominations. I was calling for a consistent use of sources. I was met mostly with, “No, that’s wrong because the Roman Catholic Church is one…but we’re still going to use the 33,000/40,000/5-million-bajillion denomination number because it proves our point!”
This ^^^ is precisely why it’s a really bad idea to use the argument of how ever many thousand denominations, if you’re trying to have a reasonable conversation with someone.

Thanks, Byzantine, for providing the example. 🙂
 
Hi, Todd520,

Be that as it may - there is no list of ‘essential’ vs ‘non-essential’ items to the best of my knowledge. We as Catholics believe the Articles of Faith that the Catholic Church teaches - denying them renders one a ‘bad Catholic’ while teaching others to deny them renders one a heretic. Some examples of this would be the Nicene Creed, the Real Presence, Christ delegated to the Apostles (and their successors) the power to forgive sin, etc.

Is this what you have in mnd?

God bless
No, it lacks integrity as a debate tactic.

Elvis issued a challenge without defining the playing field or criteria,
Then when people responded, he told them when they were in-bounds or out-of-bounds with their answers.
So in effect he is slowly revealing his hidden criteria, to his advantage.
 
NOPE, stop expanding the list.
I absolutely MUST expand the list as a Christian.

In fact, I just thought of another belief that is imperative: the existence of the immortal soul.

If one does not believe in that, then all is lost.

Oh, and here’s another: the Resurrection of Christ. If Christ is not risen then our faith is in vain, eh?

And a belief in heaven and hell. That’s essential, is it not?

And a belief in Objective Truth. That seems essential, too.

Oh! And that Scripture is the Word of God. That’s a must!

:hmmm:
 
Hi, Todd520,

Be that as it may - there is no list of ‘essential’ vs ‘non-essential’ items to the best of my knowledge. We as Catholics believe the Articles of Faith that the Catholic Church teaches - denying them renders one a ‘bad Catholic’ while teaching others to deny them renders one a heretic. Some examples of this would be the Nicene Creed, the Real Presence, Christ delegated to the Apostles (and their successors) the power to forgive sin, etc.

Is this what you have in mnd?

God bless
Yes, I like your logic. Our respective creeds work for defining Catholic vs LDS, and the Protestants can’t agree on their own creed.

I don’t think we can ever agree on ‘essential beliefs’ for a Christian because we can’t agree on the definition of Christian. 🤷
 
Awwwwwwww Todd520, you know I did not even come close to saying that!

Basically, a Christian is one who follows Christ. Looking at all of the differences between the Catholic Church and the numerous Protestant denominations, this definition is just a bit vague. Here is a link you may lenjoy - especially with the way the author starts out: catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0501fea4.asp Give it a read and let me know what you think of it.

God bless
Yes, I like your logic. Our respective creeds work for defining Catholic vs LDS, and the Protestants can’t agree on their own creed.

I don’t think we can ever agree on ‘essential beliefs’ for a Christian because we can’t agree on the definition of Christian. 🤷
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top