Ginger, are you anti-catholic? If not, Elvis bore false witness.It’s easy for Ginger - or any other anti-Catholic for that matter - to take a couple of quotes from the ECF’s out of context.
BUT, when you bombard her with many more quotes - IN CONTEXT - she simply “fades away”.
The Holy Spirit is the one that inspired and He is the One that interprets. The Holy Spirit uses sinners as He has done since Adam sinned.Not at all. But one has to assume that everything they believed about Jesus was really true, right?
You would then need a different way of knowing that the Bible is true, though, and that all these other things are not true.
If we say, how we know that the Bible is true is that the Pope made an infallible declaration based on the findings of the Council of Carthage, who examined the Holy Tradition and found it to be so, then what you are saying is that how we know it’s true, is that the Pope is infallible, first, and that the Councils are reliable.
But, if you say that the Pope cannot be infallible, and Councils are sometimes unreliable, then you have to have a third criteria, to show that although the Council of Ephesus was wrong about Mary, the Council of Carthage had to be right about the Bible, and that although Pope Pius was wrong about Mary and was wrong to make an infallible declaration based on the findings of the Council of Ephesus with regard to what the Holy Tradition says about Mary, Pope Innocent I was right about the Bible, and the Council of Carthage proves it because of what the Holy Tradition gives us with regard to the Scriptures.
Where is your third criteria?
What makes the difference between an infallible proclamation based on the findings of the Council of Ephesus, and an infallible proclamation based on the findings of the Council of Cartthage?
That is not in dispute.
Absolutely.
I consider anybody - including you - who resorts to anything but the truth when speaking about the Church to be anti-Catholic.
Christ did not come to earth to give us a book. When the Holy Spirit descended on the Disciples on Pentecost Sunday - the birthday of the Catholic Church - He did not deliver a book. God’s mission on earth was to redeem us from our sins - open the Gates of Heaven for us and give us the ongoing stregth to get there through the Church He founded on Peter.
You can’t make up your own definition of anti. I know you’re wrong about me and I’ll bet you’re wrong about Ginger.
Great post.
Unfortunatley it’ll probably go in one ear and out the other . . .
Unfortunatley it’ll probably go in one ear and out the other . . .
Great post.
Unfortunatley it’ll probably go in one ear and out the other . . .
Hi, Elvisman,
You were right … in one ear … and out the other!
God bless
First, I didn’t say I debunked anything. I said something to the effect that I responded or answered the question and so no point in repeating myself.
Only concerning Elvisman.
Just kidding!!!
One point.
It is my observation that Protestants move easily from one denomination to another. Sometimes it's simply a matter of moving from one community to another. They might have been Methodist before, but a friendly Presbyterian Church is near their new home with new friends who attend there, an effective preacher and pastor, and a good Sunday School - so, they become Presbyterian. Or maybe there is no Methodist Church in the new town, very small town, and they go to the Baptist Church.
Then there are those - often more adamant theologically - who want the 'whole Bible preached faithfully'. If the preacher doesn't do what is expected, it's off to a different church. This is rare among mainline Protestants, rather common among more evangelical Protestants.
I had two experiences this week, which may or may not be relevant. I had lunch with a priest and then I chatted with a priest at a repast following a funeral. In both cases I found them very dissatisfied with the hierarchy. Neither had much use for EWTN. One said if he watched it he became so annoyed that he didn't sleep well that night, etc.
A thought. They say 30 million Catholics have left the church in the USA. While Protestants will go from one denomination to another in their frustration, could it be that Catholics leave the church and either 'go Protestant' or become nothing? I wonder.
As for me, I try to love everybody. Wasn't it Christ who told us to love one another? I don't recall him saying that we should love only those who go to any one church. I don't care how many Protestant denominations there are. It depends, of course, on defining terms - Protestant and denomination, to name two. Since I come from a mixed Catholic/Protestant heritage with loved ones in 'both camps' I am distressed by all this silly pettiness. When Jesus was asked how to inherit eternal life, it seems to me that he didn't mention theology or a church, but love God and our neighbor. I try my best to do that, though some neighbors make it tough. I'm not sure I would get along with some CAF posters if they moved next door. I'd try.I think you are right, but the core teachings of Christ are taught in all them.
Can you expand on why they were not happy with EWTN?
Where did you hear 30 mil Catholics have moved on?
AMEN to that
One of them did say that he felt EWTN was too hostile toward other Christians, that it had aired strongly anti-Masonic programs, that Fr. Corapi is too arrogant, that it elevates optionla traditions which bordered on superstition as fact - things most intelligent people would reject, etc.
The other just said he didn't waste his time watching EWTN, and he hoped non-Catholics didn't watch it either because it didn't represent Catholicism in a very positive light.