Merit and the General Judgment - Why?

[pepipop]

reachingcatholics.org/merit.html
*
Merit accumulates during a person’s life. If the Catholic commits a mortal sin, however, all merit is forfeited. But should the Catholic repent and receive the sacrament of penance, lost merit is once again restored. Merited reward takes three forms in Roman Catholicism: an increase of grace, eternal life, and an increase of glory in heaven.*

I really find it strange that we will be rewarded in heaven depending on our merits. The reason being that the fact we get to heaven at all will be fantastic, and as we are all equal why/how is there a merit scheme in heaven, I just cannot get my head around it. All will have the beatific vision that are in heaven, how can it be made any better than that? Also, the saints were renowned for their humility, they would no doubt want the bottom place in heaven - but of course will be glorified? I have read the comments regarding vessel size and that each shall be filled to the brim - but would that not defeat the purpose that we’re all as happy as we can be, so what difference would being more glorified make?

I’m confused and again, I would appreciate a better insight into this, please. Many thanks

 

[TimothyH]

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT WEBSITE

**That website is not Catholic. **

The website linked misrepresents Catholic doctrine as authentic with the intent to turn Catholics away from the Church. That website exists to evangelize Catholics out of the the Catholic Church. Catholics should pay no attention to anything taught by that website.

*The general purpose of Reaching Catholics For Christ is to support ex-Catholics and other individuals in their endeavor to personally minister the true gospel of salvation to their Catholic loved ones, friends and acquaintances. … to educate the body of Christ as to the unbiblical nature of Roman Catholic salvation. *

The site uses the predicable formula of presuming to tell Catholics what the Catholic Church teaches, and then contrasts what they incorrectly say the Church teachs with what they believe the Bible really teaches, thereby showing Catholics how their own Church does not follow the Gospel.

They make the mistake that of reducing salvation as taught by the Catholic Church to a formula that gets one saved when one gets it right. Merit and grace are not math problems or columns on a spreadsheet which we can manipulate by good works and the sacrament of reconcilation so that we come out on the plus side when we die. That is not what the Catholic Church teaches.

Forget about it.

-Tim-

 

[pepipop]

Thanks Tim, I shall not visit that site again. However, this is a quote from the following site regarding merit. It actually says inequality exists between the glory among the saints, ,again I do not understand this.

newadvent.org/cathen/10202b.htm

As the third object of merit the council mentions the “increase of glory” (gloriœ augmentum) which evidently must correspond to the increase of grace, as this corresponds to the accumulation of good works. At the Last Day, when Christ will come with his angels to judge the world, “He will render to every man according to his works [secundum opera eius]” (Matthew 16:27; cf Romans 2:6). And St. Paul repeats the same (1 Corinthians 3:8): “Every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labour [secundum suum laborem]”. This explains the inequality that exists between the glory of the different saints.

 

[TimothyH]

If I get to heaven, after much suffering in purgatory, I will be the least there, not fit to clean the toilets. Me and the theif on the cross will make a great team.

John Paul II, St. Peter and many other’s however…

-Tim-

 

[pepipop]

If I get to heaven, after much suffering in purgatory, I will be the least there, not fit to clean the toilets. Me and the theif on the cross will make a great team.

John Paul II, St. Peter and many other’s however…

-Tim-

I totally agree, getting there will be the prize and that’s why I cannot understand unequality when we do get there. Some do not get as good a chance as others in this life to add to their merits, ‘abused children’, brought up by drug addicts, atheists, etc… I suppose what I’m trying to say is as getting to heaven is the end prize, why would further merits need to be handed out. The very holy saints I am quite positive weren’t doing anything on this earth for their merits, they were tyring to help the rest of us ‘joe soaps’ , by praying and suffereing for us.

 

[Usagi]

Thanks Tim, I shall not visit that site again. However, this is a quote from the following site regarding merit. It actually says inequality exists between the glory among the saints, ,again I do not understand this.

It does seem to be the case that some in Heaven will enjoy greater glory than others.

Like you, I have been bothered by this in the past, but was pretty well persuaded by the “vessel” explanation you mention. We will all be in the direct presence of God, and His love will be poured out on all, but those who have gone further in their sanctification prior to Heaven will be better receivers/receptacles for that love. Everyone will have exactly as much love and happiness and glory as he/she can handle, but some will have greater capacity. What do you find inadequate about that idea?

Also … we in the West tend to have a “static” idea of Heaven, meaning that we view that comparative capacity as unchanging. If I remember rightly from some posts on here in the past (though an Eastern Christian may correct me if I’ve got it wrong), in the East even Heaven itself is seen as more of an ongoing progression into the ever-unfolding mystery of God. Taking that view would mean that each saint would not necessarily be “stuck” at the point where he/she died, even though he/she is starting further back, so to speak.

Usagi

 

[Usagi]

I totally agree, getting there will be the prize and that’s why I cannot understand unequality when we do get there. Some do not get as good a chance as others in this life to add to their merits, ‘abused children’, brought up by drug addicts, atheists, etc… I suppose what I’m trying to say is as getting to heaven is the end prize, why would further merits need to be handed out. The very holy saints I am quite positive weren’t doing anything on this earth for their merits, they were tyring to help the rest of us ‘joe soaps’ , by praying and suffereing for us.

God knows the heart, and can adjust for circumstances, surely. Even if the rewards of Heaven are unequal, we can trust that they will be just.

It’s true that those we regard as the greatest saints would be the first to say that they did not do or earn anything. Properly speaking, it’s all God’s work in us. But for His own reasons, God chooses to reward us for His work, as St. Augustine said. We do believe, in contrast to some Protestants, that the individual human will does play a role in our sanctification, if only to the extent of getting out of the way so that God can work.

C. S. Lewis, an Anglican beloved of many Catholics, had some interesting things to say on this topic in Mere Christianity. In relation to mental illness and other impediments that might keep one person from being as outwardly good as others, he suggested that God knows very well the obstacles that each one struggles with, and may well grant the homicidal maniac just as much credit* for “not killing someone today” as he does a more visibly saintly person who devotes his entire day to service and sacrifice, but whose character is more suited to such behavior.

Lewis also presents a couple of very cool fictional pictures of the “progress”-style Heaven in both The Last Battle (only at the very end, and only hinted) and The Great Divorce (where it’s the topic of most of the book).

Usagi

• Again, let me stress that God does not give us credit for doing things by our own efforts, but does, He has revealed, choose to reward us for merely allowing His grace to work in us.

 

[pepipop]

• Again, let me stress that God does not give us credit for doing things by our own efforts, but does, He has revealed, choose to reward us for merely allowing His grace to work in us.

Good point, it is much harder to allow God’s will to work within us, than to give it a go ourselves. The vessel scenario is very descriptive, I agree, and explains it fully but I still do not see why anyone is merited in the first place and as you say God’s grace helped the saints, us, etc… however giving up our will for God’s is an act of our own will. But then again why a merit system, I think IMO because it’s so like earth and Jesus said that the last shall be first, etc… and love all your brothers and sisters equally, you would assume everyone would be the same (at last),so why another tiered system in heaven? True it would make sense that heaven does not stay static for ‘eternity’ so we must all move forward within heaven into the ever-unfolding mystery of God and the angels too were created in a heirarchy.

 

[Usagi]

Well, “the last shall be first” does imply that there is a “first” to be…

Any hierarchy that exists among the saints in Heaven obviously won’t have the problems of hierarchy on Earth, since no one will be arrogant or jealous about it.

Usagi

 

[pepipop]

Well, “the last shall be first” does imply that there is a “first” to be…

Any hierarchy that exists among the saints in Heaven obviously won’t have the problems of hierarchy on Earth, since no one will be arrogant or jealous about it.

Usagi

Good point, the first shall be last…

No, I would never think anyone in heaven would ever have a problem with it, just thought we would all be equal. On earth,those in the higher positions get there due to pride, ego, indication of self worth, scullduggery, plenty of money and other means - it seems hard to see the point of it in heaven. I suppose the heirarchy in the church could be viewed in some way to a heavenly one, but then again some priests in ‘human’ terms may wish to be a bishop, other’s an archbishop (there may be some pride in their succession, as they are human).

Oh I give up, I’m getting myself totally confused now.

 

[bmullins]

Think of it like this. Every person in heaven gets a cup full of the best thing ever. Each of us is going to have a cup. Each of us is going to be able to drink our fill out of that cup, it’s never gonna run out. But some of us are gonna have bigger cups, and some smaller. The one with the smallest cup is still going to be super happy to have a cup at all, and the one with the bigger isn’t going to be hesitate to share his cup with others.

 

[pepipop]

Think of it like this. Every person in heaven gets a cup full of the best thing ever. Each of us is going to have a cup. Each of us is going to be able to drink our fill out of that cup, it’s never gonna run out. But some of us are gonna have bigger cups, and some smaller. The one with the smallest cup is still going to be super happy to have a cup at all, and the one with the bigger isn’t going to be hesitate to share his cup with others.

Ok, i understand this analogy and like the fact that the ones with the bigger cups will share with others, if required to do so. However, does purgatory not cleanse the soul and bring all souls to the same level of the knowledge of God before entering heaven? My assumption being, the ones with the fuller cups, i.e. saints, would have more knowledge of and therefore capable of loving God more however they would not have gone to purgatory in the first place.

 

[bmullins]

Ok, i understand this analogy and like the fact that the ones with the bigger cups will share with others, is required to do so. However, does purgatory not cleanse the soul and bring all souls to the same level of the knowledge of God before entering heaven? My assumption being the ones with the fuller cups, i.e. saints, would have more knowledge of and therefore capable of loving God more but they would not have had to go to purgatory in the first place.

Purgatory only gets rid of your ‘bad’ stuff. The good stuff that you did comes through untouched. So someone who did a lot of good, is going to have a bigger cup. Someone who did a little good, is gonna have a little cup. I don’t think people will be ‘required’ to share the cups, but people will love each other fully; so they’ll share the cup not because they have to, not because they need to, but because they want to.

[bibledrb]1 Corinthians 3:10-15[/bibledrb]

You see the key is that things done out of love, good deeds, works of mercy etc are gold, silver, and gems. These things will make it through the purgation. The wood, hay, and straw are worldly things… they burn up. They are destroyed. Purgatory doesn’t change your good nature, just gets rid of your bad. The difference is simply how much you bring with you.

If two people have a house fire, as the example from Corinthians indicates, and one carries out what he can hold in both hands. He has one item in each hand. The other comes out with two suitcases full of good things. They both have good things, they both have been saved from the fire… but one managed to get out with more ‘good things.’ It’s about getting to share in God’s glory. Some will have a little more glory than others, but all of us will be happy with what we have, and all of us will realize that it’s all God’s glory he’s just sharing with us even though we don’t deserve it.

 

[TimothyH]

All we need to do is to consder Mary, Queen of Heaven and Earth, and we will clearly see that greater glory in Heaven is granted to those who cooperate with God’s grace to the fullest.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

Which reminds me.

Christ is a King. We must never forget that. God chose to reveal Christ to us as a King. That is the whole theme of Matthew’s Gospel - announcment of the kingdom, the establishment of the kingdom, the tearing down of the old kingdom, etc.

Christ is our King and he has a kingdom on earth (the Church) and in Heaven.

And kings reward most those who serve him best.

-Tim-

 

[bmullins]

Which reminds me.

Christ is a King. We must never forget that. God chose to reveal Christ to us as a King. That is the whole theme of Matthew’s Gospel - announcment of the kingdom, the establishment of the kingdom, the tearing down of the old kingdom, etc.

Christ is our King and he has a kingdom on earth (the Church) and in Heaven.

And kings reward most those who serve him best.

-Tim-

Your above quotes remind me of a better analogy than cups. Christ even used this analogy himself. The bible reminds us often of the ‘wedding feast of the Lamb.’ When we think of a wedding feast, we think of tables upon tables upon tables, all in a big feast hall. Now Jesus the King is going to be at the head table. There are many seats. There are going to be people who get to sit at the Kings table, side by side with him. (Remember the two disciples arguing over who got to sit on his right and left? and he said God chooses?) There are going to be people sitting a little further away, still very close to Jesus. Then there are going to be others who are sitting at the chairs in the back.

All of us are going to be completely satisfied being at the the feast at all! We aren’t going to be arguing over who got to sit in the more noble chairs, or the less. We are just going to be sharing the food and joy of being at the wedding feast that we have been seeing glimpses of in the Eucharist for our entire lives.

 

[Speedypizza]

Maybe what is meant by reward and merit is not more/larger STUFF (bigger house, nicer car, more gold and gems, nicer clothing, or better food) as we think of stuff here on Earth, but rather greater amounts of love and friendship from those who we helped and inspired.

Think of it this way, here is Joe six-pack who was a plumber. Joe was an okay Catholic, but he never really did much for it either. The only people he ever led into the Church was his children, and Joe never bothered to pray for those in Purgatory other then his mother.

Now let us think of somebody like Saint Gertrude who not only prayed for those in Purgatory (whom I am sure will be grateful to her forever) but also inspired those who knew her and those who were inspired by her life story. Also all of us who have prayed to her for help while here on earth. How many more people are going to be clambering to be around her then Joe?

Not saying this is how it really is, but it does make sense if you think about it.