Merit vs grace?

[someperson555]

sorry if i posted this in the wrong section, but i always wondered, do we obtain our glory and status in heaven by merit or are we created with a certain greatness and all we have to do is be saved?

allow me to elaborate, i always believed (and i still do) that our status in heaven will be earned by how we lived our life here on earth. isnt it plausible to believe that a person like st francis who lived an austere life would have more glory in heaven than some theif who repented at the last moment?

i ask this because i read st therease of avila say that not all souls in heaven are equal, which is all well and good, but is that because they are created superior or inferior or is it something we earn?

sorry im having trouble phrasing this question elegantly lol since im a little tired right now.

 

[JRKH]

I have a certain amount of trouble with the whole concept of status in heaven. Maybe because I figure that it’s going to be tough enough for me just to get in…

That said, the only things I can think of off hand from Scripture are

Whoever humbles himself like this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. (Mt 18:4)

But many that are first will be last, and the last first. (Mt 19:30)

The greatest among you will be your servant. All who exalt themselves will be humbled, and all who humble themselves will be exalted. (Mt 23:11-12)

Each of these are mere snippets but they seem to point to a position later based on beliefs and actions now…

I can think of no verses that indicate that our “position” in heaven is pre-ordained…

Peace
James

 

[57Bill]

allow me to elaborate, i always believed (and i still do) that our status in heaven will be earned by how we lived our life here on earth. isnt it plausible to believe that a person like st francis who lived an austere life would have more glory in heaven than some theif who repented at the last moment?

i ask this because i read st therease of avila say that not all souls in heaven are equal, which is all well and good, but is that because they are created superior or inferior or is it something we earn?

.

We as ourself can do nothing that would ‘earn’ a status in heaven. I doubt there is a pecking of status.

Although a life lived in and through the Holy Spirit more fruitfully than others as in only God would know their hearts…would/should/might have a more *something *than others. There was a good thread about cups of joy overflowing. Think of some having larger cups than others, but the experience or joy is the same regardless. JMO

 

[fhansen]

sorry if i posted this in the wrong section, but i always wondered, do we obtain our glory and status in heaven by merit or are we created with a certain greatness and all we have to do is be saved?

allow me to elaborate, i always believed (and i still do) that our status in heaven will be earned by how we lived our life here on earth. isnt it plausible to believe that a person like st francis who lived an austere life would have more glory in heaven than some theif who repented at the last moment?

i ask this because i read st therease of avila say that not all souls in heaven are equal, which is all well and good, but is that because they are created superior or inferior or is it something we earn?

sorry im having trouble phrasing this question elegantly lol since im a little tired right now.

In Catholic theology the will of man is never divorced from the matter of his justification. Since that justification is generally a process, God draws and molds man, with our cooperation, into the beings He desires us to be. Our wills are the prize, so to speak, opposite of the theology of Calvinism which teaches that man’s will plays no role in his justification or salvation. In Catholcism God is about the business of redeeming His creation by helping it, via grace, to align its will with His, as we come to recognize the perfection of His will, something Adam & Eve hadn’t recognized in Eden, which caused them to disobey, or oppose His will. But, as with them, He won’t force us to do so.

 

[someperson555]

I have a certain amount of trouble with the whole concept of status in heaven. Maybe because I figure that it’s going to be tough enough for me just to get in…

That said, the only things I can think of off hand from Scripture are

Whoever humbles himself like this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. (Mt 18:4)

But many that are first will be last, and the last first. (Mt 19:30)

The greatest among you will be your servant. All who exalt themselves will be humbled, and all who humble themselves will be exalted. (Mt 23:11-12)

Each of these are mere snippets but they seem to point to a position later based on beliefs and actions now…

I can think of no verses that indicate that our “position” in heaven is pre-ordained…

Peace
James

i see,
i ask because i read about prayers that prtomise glory in heaven for those who pray it.
it only makes sense that the holier the person the greater they will be in heaven since it wouldnt really be fair if a guy was pre-ordained to be great in heaven but lived a sinful life yet repented at the last moment, while a person who lived a saintly life was pre-ordained to be lower would recieve less glory in heaven.