Message For The Protestants

[CatholicGal1977]

I have a message for the Protestants:

I’m not oblivious to the fact that the majority of you truly believe we Catholics worship The Blessed Mother Mary when, in fact, we don’t and yet what I find most distressing about you all as a group is how you all plug the Bible and Sola scriptura the way you do. In all do honesty, I think that many Protestants tend to worship the Bible the way they put it up on a pedestal as “the Final Authority” yet nowhere in the Bible does it say that it’s “the Final Authority”.

Oh, and “the Rapture” that many of you Evangelics (and others) believe isn’t in the Bible either! The idea of a Rapture came from a Protestant pastor’s sermon in which he was discussing the details of visions some young Scottish-Irish girl was having in the early to mid-1800s.

I find it HIGHLY offensive that many Protestants rail us Catholics for things they consider non-Biblical, like Purgatory, for example, yet have no problems believing in non-Biblical things themselves.

I also find it strange that many of you consider yourselves literalists the way you do YET pick and choose what you will and won’t believe from Scripture.

A few years ago my mom showed her Protestant co-worker, a Baptist, James 2:24, 26 in the King James Bible to show her that you need to have faith AND works, not just faith alone. Betty Ray looked at the verses in the King James Bible then opened her King James Bible and said, “By golly Jean. You’re right! I’ve never seen that before. It does say that. I’m going to my pastor about that.” And sure enough, she did. You know what Betty Ray’s pastor told her? He told her that those verses in James were there, but they DIDN’T mean anything and she, quite obviously, was okay with hearing that.

Now excuse me, but how can a Protestant pastor who claims he is a literalist be okay with telling a member of his congregation that it’s there [in the Bible], but doesn’t mean anything? If you believe that the Bible is “the Final Authority” THEN everything means something yet I know that’s not true with the majority of you.

I’m sorry, but there’s more to all this than just saying the “sinner’s prayer” to ensure your place in Heaven. I have issues with Martin Luther saying you can profess to being saved, commit every sin in the book, and STILL somehow find your way to Heaven in the end WITHOUT being judged for what you did or didn’t do in your earthly lives.

I think many of you Protestants are hypocritcal. You’ll open a Bible and say a verse or passage like John 3:16 means something yet when we Catholics try to refute you and say some other passage means something else that contradicts that you say we’re wrong and not interpreting it right or say it’s there but doesn’t mean anything. One can’t dismiss scripture simply because it doesn’t agree with their doctrines and beliefs. This is why we Catholics are we’re taught to look at the Bible as a whole instead of putting it up on a pedestal as “the Final Authority” and touting Sola scriptura like you do. Either the Bible means something as a whole and everything is important or it means nothing and one can simply keep picking and choosing to suit their stand.

With all this said, I’ll continue to pray for the majority of the Protestants out there that they will abandon their hypocricy and stop believing in unBiblical things.

 

[rr1213]

Do you want responses to this or is this just a rant?

 

[RNRobert]

I find it interesting that Protestants claim to follow the Bible, but do all sorts of “lateral arabesques” (a term an Orthodox acquaintance used) when coming across passages that support the Catholic position (i.e. the Eucharist, Jesus giving Peter the keys, etc.).

 

[CatholicGal1977]

Do you want responses to this or is this just a rant?

It’s my thoughts. You’re free to comment as you see fit.

I find it interesting that Protestants claim to follow the Bible, but do all sorts of “lateral arabesques” (a term an Orthodox acquaintance used) when coming across passages that support the Catholic position (i.e. the Eucharist, Jesus giving Peter the keys, etc.).

Ditto. It simply boggles my mind that they say we’re mis-interpreting it or that it’s there but doesn’t mean anything.

They love throwing Bible verses out there yet when a Catholic goes to throw 'em back, they’re worthless. they continuously act as if they’re right and we’re wrong. It’s just not worth getting into with them because all you do is go in circles and they never want to seem to listen to you anyhow.

 

[Caesar]

I find it interesting that Protestants claim to follow the Bible, but do all sorts of “lateral arabesques” (a term an Orthodox acquaintance used) when coming across passages that support the Catholic position (i.e. the Eucharist, Jesus giving Peter the keys, etc.).

That is quite true. Protestant churches cannot correctly follow the Holy Scriptures because they do not possess the Sacred Tradition of the Church which guides us in the correct interpretation of the Bible and vice-versa.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I understand Catholic Gal frustration. I try to reason with believers and give him historical proof of our apostolic traditions, successions, and how the Bible was made, and he goes on. History is man made not of God. Yet, he fail to realized the Bible is a historical document. What are some of you Protestants, so hard-headed?

Jesus is the Truth. History leads us to the truth. History itself cannot contradict Jesus and his Bible.

 

[rr1213]

They love throwing Bible verses out there yet when a Catholic goes to throw 'em back, they’re worthless. they continuously act as if they’re right and we’re wrong. It’s just not worth getting into with them because all you do is go in circles and they never want to seem to listen to you anyhow.

You’ve obviously run into the wrong type of Protestants. You are also generalizing based on some of your bad experiences. If I can generalize myself, I’d say that your average evangelical non-Catholic Christian knows their bible as well as or even better than your average Catholic. The reason most Protestants may act “as if they’re right and [Catholics] are wrong” is because…they believe that they’re right and you’re wrong. And, frankly, you return the favor because you act the same way.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Most of the Catholics here, rr1213, know their Scripture, and the Church doctrine . If not, they often cite some source from either the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or the Bible.

 

[rr1213]

Most of the Catholics here, rr1213, know their Scripture, and the Church doctrine . If not, they often cite some source from either the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or the Bible.

I actually agree with you here Mannyfit. Most of the Catholics who post on Catholic Answers are devout Catholics who are pretty knowledgeable about Scripture and the CCC. Nonetheless, if you pull the average Catholic out of the pew and the average evangelical non-Catholic Christian out of the pew and compare biblical knowledge…if I were a betting man my money would not be on the Catholic. It doesn’t matter though because you folks will simply say that we can’t properly understand Scripture without the guiding light of the Magisterium anyway. It’s a stacked deck…

 

[Mannyfit75]

I actually agree with you here Mannyfit. Most of the Catholics who post on Catholic Answers are devout Catholics who are pretty knowledgeable about Scripture and the CCC. Nonetheless, if you pull the average Catholic out of the pew and the average evangelical non-Catholic Christian out of the pew and compare biblical knowledge…if I were a betting man my money would not be on the Catholic. It doesn’t matter though because you folks will simply say that we can’t properly understand Scripture without the guiding light of the Magisterium anyway. It’s a stacked deck…

The average Catholic is ignorant of the Catholic Church and the Bible. This is a major problem in today’s average Catholic John Doe. That is why I think that the parishes should start the Renewal Program. I believe Catholics who don’t know their faith, should be re-catechize.

Most Catholics are Protestant in their way of thinking. Though devote Catholics who been converted from other Christian traditions or are committed in their faith in Christ are shown by their actions.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I do give Protestants credit for helping me explore my faith. They lead me to Catholic Answers Live… and for the most part some Catholics here have provided Apologetics site which vastly improve my apologetically skills. I thank the Protestants for that, and most importantly, I thank the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bene86]

I personally don’t think that we would need a renewal program if our pastors and priests would actually give a sermon once and awhile as opposed to this “All you need is love” Beatles reunion stuff.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I personally don’t think that we would need a renewal program if our pastors and priests would actually give a sermon once and awhile as opposed to this “All you need is love” Beatles reunion stuff.

Steubenville has a great Catholic community… I’m not surprise.

You guys have Scott Hahn as a professor there in the Franciscan University… if I’m correct…

 

[rr1213]

Maybe comparing the biblical knowledge of Average Joe Catholics and Average Joe Evangelicals is not a fair comparison. Evangelicals tend to be a self-selecting group whose zeal and emphasis on scripture leads them to be more knowledgeable about scripture. The Catholic Church, on the other hand, is a bit of a “big tent” with lots of folks at different levels of evangelical fervor and committment. Maybe if you compared Average Joe Catholic to Average Joe Mainline Protestant the results would be more similar. Of course, I am speaking in general terms because how could we really decide who is an “Average Joe”?

 

[Bene86]

Yeah, but I am an accounting student so…

But I am taking Mariology with Mirivalle (sp) which is pretty cool.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Maybe comparing the biblical knowledge of Average Joe Catholics and Average Joe Evangelicals is not a fair comparison. Evangelicals tend to be a self-selecting group whose zeal and emphasis on scripture leads them to be more knowledgeable about scripture. The Catholic Church, on the other hand, is a bit of a “big tent” with lots of folks at different levels of evangelical fervor and committment. Maybe if you compared Average Joe Catholic to Average Joe Mainline Protestant the results would be more similar. Of course, I am speaking in general terms because how could we really decide who is an “Average Joe”?

I still believe there is a great need to re-evangelize fellow Catholics who know very little of their faith. Ten yrs ago, I know little about my faith and most of my belief back there were Protestant in thinking, yet I remain Catholic. It was until I read the Catechism, and thoroughly reading Gospel of John, and the entire Bible, when things started make sense.

I even research Christian history through the writing of the ECF, witness accounts of Pagans who did not view Christians very highly, and often accused them of cabalism, and incest…

I also read David Currie’s conversion story to Catholicism from Protestant Evangelicalism.

 

[rr1213]

I still believe there is a great need to re-evangelize fellow Catholics who know very little of their faith. Ten yrs ago, I know little about my faith and most of my belief back there were Protestant in thinking, yet I remain Catholic. It was until I read the Catechism, and thoroughly reading Gospel of John, and the entire Bible, when things started make sense.

I even research Christian history through the writing of the ECF, witness accounts of Pagans who did not view Christians very highly, and often accused them of cabalism, and incest…

I also read David Currie’s conversion story to Catholicism from Protestant Evangelicalism.

This is good. You have a better understanding of your faith because of your study. We had a collect in my faith tradition which I think is very appropriate and which you may find worthwhile even though it is not “Catholic” in origin:

“Blessed Lord, who caused all holy Scriptures to be written for our learning: grant us so to hear them, read, mark, learn, and inwardly digest them, that we may embrace and ever hold fast the blessed hope of everlasting life, which you have given us in our Savior Jesus Christ; who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.”

 

[Mannyfit75]

This is good. You have a better understanding of your faith because of your study. We had a collect in my faith tradition which I think is very appropriate and which you may find worthwhile even though it is not “Catholic” in origin:

“Blessed Lord, who caused all holy Scriptures to be written for our learning: grant us so to hear them, read, mark, learn, and inwardly digest them, that we may embrace and ever hold fast the blessed hope of everlasting life, which you have given us in our Savior Jesus Christ; who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.”

Oh blessed be Jesus! You just gave me an idea for a new thread. I’m not sure if this would go here. Hold on.

 

[Revelation13_16]

I have a message for the Protestants:

I’m not oblivious to the fact that the majority of you truly believe we Catholics worship The Blessed Mother Mary when, in fact, we don’t and yet what I find most distressing about you all as a group is how you all plug the Bible and Sola scriptura the way you do. In all do honesty, I think that many Protestants tend to worship the Bible the way they put it up on a pedestal as “the Final Authority” yet nowhere in the Bible does it say that it’s “the Final Authority”.

2 Tim 3:16

Oh, and “the Rapture” that many of you Evangelics (and others) believe isn’t in the Bible either! The idea of a Rapture came from a Protestant pastor’s sermon in which he was discussing the details of visions some young Scottish-Irish girl was having in the early to mid-1800s.

1. It’s “Evangelicals”
2. I have never heard of the Rapture Theory being founded on a vision, but it is founded on St Paul’s writings in 1 Thess 15-18.

I find it HIGHLY offensive that many Protestants rail us Catholics for things they consider non-Biblical, like Purgatory, for example, yet have no problems believing in non-Biblical things themselves.

Research first, talk later.

I also find it strange that many of you consider yourselves literalists the way you do YET pick and choose what you will and won’t believe from Scripture.

If Cafeteria Catholics aren’t considered proper Catholics, then Cafeteria Protestants aren’t either.

A few years ago my mom showed her Protestant co-worker, a Baptist, James 2:24, 26 in the King James Bible to show her that you need to have faith AND works, not just faith alone. Betty Ray looked at the verses in the King James Bible then opened her King James Bible and said, “By golly Jean. You’re right! I’ve never seen that before. It does say that. I’m going to my pastor about that.” And sure enough, she did. You know what Betty Ray’s pastor told her? He told her that those verses in James were there, but they DIDN’T mean anything and she, quite obviously, was okay with hearing that.

That Pastor was wrong.

James is talking about true faith and not false faith.

True faith is always proved by works - as Jesus said “ye shall know them by their fruits” (what they do, what they produce)

Why do you think Abraham was tested into sacrificing Isaac?

Abraham’s faith was tested by God to see if it was a real faith or a false faith. To see if Abraham “walked the walk” and not just “talked the talk”

Had Abraham been unwilling to plunge the knife into Isaac, his faith would have been false, and all talk.

Works always accompanies true faith because it is an indicator that you have true faith.

It was true faith that made Stephen accept martyrdom and not recant at the last minute. It was true faith that led Peter to be crucified upside down. It was true faith that ended Paul.

If any of these had a false faith or “believed in vain” then at the last minute they would have recanted, but they didn’t.

Their works proved their faith was a true faith.

The Bible says about people’s works that they’ll go through the fire and either come out the other side or be consumed up.

False faith is always burnt up and cannot endure, but true faith can pass through the fire and be stronger.

Now excuse me, but how can a Protestant pastor who claims he is a literalist be okay with telling a member of his congregation that it’s there [in the Bible], but doesn’t mean anything? If you believe that the Bible is “the Final Authority” THEN everything means something yet I know that’s not true with the majority of you.

Where do you get off painting all Protestants with a broad stroke like this? (“the majority of you”)

I don’t know what church Betty Ray went to, nor do I know what seminary instructed that Pastor, but from you have said, he is not qualified to preach on a street corner, let alone to a congregation that trusts him for spiritual guidance.

continued

 

[Revelation13_16]

I’m sorry, but there’s more to all this than just saying the “sinner’s prayer” to ensure your place in Heaven.

Why? Because your P.O.V is that Christ’s death wasn’t the completion but the beginning?

The fact is, you can differ with Sola Fide & Sufficient Atonement theories, but you can’t unequivocally say as a fact that it isn’t suffice to secure a place in heaven.

You can believe it isn’t enough if you want, you can make an argument against it, but you can’t say for sure that it isn’t enough, because many millions of Protestants relying on the Bible alone would differ with you, and you’re only source against Sola Fide is your Catholic beliefs, and beliefs are just that - beliefs not facts.

Hence why we have faith. (faith is the belief in things not seen, the things hoped for etc.)

I have issues with Martin Luther saying you can profess to being saved, commit every sin in the book, and STILL somehow find your way to Heaven in the end WITHOUT being judged for what you did or didn’t do in your earthly lives.

Again, one view of all Protestantism.

Alot of Protestants don’t believe in “once saved, always saved”.

This is too big a subject for me to expound upon here, but I suggest if you truly wish to know about the different forms of Protestant Soteirology try comparing the Calvinistic view of salvation with the Arminian view for starters.

I think many of you Protestants are hypocritcal. You’ll open a Bible and say a verse or passage like John 3:16 means something yet when we Catholics try to refute you and say some other passage means something else that contradicts that you say we’re wrong and not interpreting it right or say it’s there but doesn’t mean anything. One can’t dismiss scripture simply because it doesn’t agree with their doctrines and beliefs. This is why we Catholics are we’re taught to look at the Bible as a whole instead of putting it up on a pedestal as “the Final Authority” and touting Sola scriptura like you do.

Systematic Theologies look at the Bible as a whole.

Many of these have been written in Protestantism.

With all this said, I’ll continue to pray for the majority of the Protestants out there that they will abandon their hypocricy and stop believing in unBiblical things.

Pray to God for wisdom.

I don’t mean to offend you, but there’s a huge difference between questioning earnestly and ranting.

I gather you are quite young though, at least I hope you are.

Love,
Rev