Message For The Protestants

[Wisdom]

I think the sterotype some are throwing out that Evangelicals know their Bible better than catholics and know their faith better is a bit misleading most know thier pet bible verses and their pet theologies but when you confront them with other parts of the bible and other theologies they are at a loss. They know what I wold say are their pet fundamentals but the overall Christian faith is not very deep, they know what they know well they just don’t know very much if that makes any sense. I think the on fire catholics know more than an on fire evangelical in many respects. Now for the average catholic that is hard to say as some have said we have such a big tent and tend to be catholic from the craddel to the grave wheras many evangelicals actually choose to be part of the church and thus are mroe likely to be an on fire type that perhaps the average tips to their favor but its not a deep knowledge of the christian faith by the average evangelical ask them to expalin the trinity outside of the bible and they have lots of problems. Also ask them why they believe what they beleive for instance sola scriptura and why the Bible alone is the word of God and not any other holy book and they have problems as well.

 

[Seth]

Thank you Rev, I couldn’t bring myself to take the time to respond to that inflammatory and generalized post. CatholicGal1977, if you would like to discuss these things with someone who subscribes to a reformed theology and who has to the best of his abilities and in his brokeness attempted to understand the Catholic position with an open and honest heart, then please message me and we can discuss this and any Scripture (I promise I won’t shrug off a verse/chapter/book without contemplation and explanation). You can reach me at spotter2@connect.carleton.ca as I’d love to discuss this further. This offer goes to anyone else on this board who has had similar feelings towards Protestants as Catholicgal1977.
Let’s try and drop preconceptions and more towards understanding of Scripture. All too often we label discussion as Protestant vs. Catholic but I think it is much more complicated (and simpler) than that. If we don’t refrain from digging trenches and staring eachother down with poor exegesis then we’ll be there for years and come out of it like Europe did in 1918. I look forward to the discussion!

Seth

PS. The reason I don’t propose this to be done on this board is simply because of the amount of digression and unfounded and inflammatory remarks that tend to come up in Protestant vs. Catholic boards. Just seems more controlled and less chaotic one on one or in a small group. Later!

 

[Seth]

Oh, and one more thing. I have never once seen a Protestant bow down to the Bible, get down on his or her knees in front of it and venerate or worship it. Nor do I expect you have either Catholicgal. Your accusations in defense of what many Protestants call Mary worship is unfounded. Protestants hold the Bible especially dear to them because it is their authoritative source of doctrine and of instruction in the faith. It is it the Word of God and as such, don’t you think it deserves to be highly revered and kept close in our hearts? It is one of God’s gifts to us, and to say that Protestants take it any further than this is a terrible accusation without merit. Quite honestly, the closest I’ve seen to Bible worship (not that it was) was in a Catholic church I attended for about 5 months (St. Mary’s in Ottawa, ON, CA). The Bible (the Gospels in particular) were taken up and down the aisles and kissed by the Priest. I personally don’t know of anything similar in any Protestant church. Please keep in mind that I am not trying to make a case against Mary or argue at all that Catholics worship the Bible. I’m just trying to point out that what you said about Protestants is unfair and inaccurate.
-Seth

 

[O.S.Luke]

I’m just trying to point out that what you said about Protestants is unfair and inaccurate.
-Seth

Ditto.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

**I have a question: Do you think it would be fair for me to judge all catholics by the following experiences:**1. I went to take the Eucharist without any knowledge that I should not take it because I was not catholic(didnt know) The priest asked if I was catholic, I said No and instead of blessing me(which I learned about after the fact) he flicked his hand at me and told me to move along.

1. I was just informed that my daughter is not allowed to go to youth group with her friends because she is not catholic.
2. A woman I met questioned a priest as to why he taught Adam and Eve were just a myth and he told her if she didnt believe the same to find a different church.
3. Same woman above told me that her fried took her to church(at age 7) and the priest asked her if she knew what the Eucharist was(she said no)if she knew what confession was(she said no)if she went to CCD(she said no) he said to her “Then why are you here?” She was 7 years old and was not raised catholic. Her mom and her were told they couldnt attend Mass because her mom divorced(she was 3 at the time).

I have more stories but you get my point. Should I judge ALL catholics based on what a few churches did or do?

Shame on me if I did.

 

[Singinbeauty]

CatholicGal1977,

I just wanna say ‘thank you’. Thank you for willing to be honest in how you feel about protestants and our beliefs. Thank you for pointing out what you do not understand so that we may be able to gently tell you why we believe what we do.

But most of all, thank you for showing how catholics can be just as mean, blind, and generalistic as a lot of protestants are accused of by catholics. It comes from both sides so thank you for demonstrating that.

I am not saying that ALL catholics are like this, in fact most of the catholics that I run into on this board are nothing but nice, smart, and articulate people who really get me thinking. BUT this thread definitely shows that catholics do not have the ‘hold’ on being accused of things that are not true by ignorant people who don’t want to ask questions.

So CatholicGal1977, again, Thank you.

 

[lak611]

I don’t think it is fair to stereotype “all Protestants” or “all Catholics.” I have Protestant family members and friends, and none of them has ever said that I “worship Mary,” “don’t know the Bible,” or anything else that you have lumped them all into. I have never heard my Protestant family or friends say anything anti-Catholic. Of course, I pray for them, so that they may understand the truth and completeness of the Catholic faith, but to stereotype them is uncharitable.

 

[happygal]

**I have a question: Do you think it would be fair for me to judge all catholics by the following experiences:**1. I went to take the Eucharist without any knowledge that I should not take it because I was not catholic(didnt know) The priest asked if I was catholic, I said No and instead of blessing me(which I learned about after the fact) he flicked his hand at me and told me to move along.

**Hi ALLFORHIM

Well we don’t judge others just becoz of their action which we cannot approve upon, as we all aware that non catholic are not allow to partake communion in their church, thus we have to respect that. No need to feel bad about it**

1. I was just informed that my daughter is not allowed to go to youth group with her friends because she is not catholic.

Oh no, this is not any church should do. Why discriminating or what!!! What a sad sign!!!

1. A woman I met questioned a priest as to why he taught Adam and Eve were just a myth and he told her if she didnt believe the same to find a different church.

Are you serious that the priest exactly told that woman Adam and Eve were myth!!! Huh!!! A…have i miss something here well i guess what the priest was trying to tell that woman was simply if she unable to accept what he have preached then it is better for her to find a parish that suits her

1. Same woman above told me that her fried took her to church(at age 7) and the priest asked her if she knew what the Eucharist was(she said no)if she knew what confession was(she said no)if she went to CCD(she said no) he said to her “Then why are you here?” She was 7 years old and was not raised catholic. Her mom and her were told they couldnt attend Mass because her mom divorced(she was 3 at the time).

But she was so young how can she probably remembered what she said during that time??

I have more stories but you get my point. Should I judge ALL catholics based on what a few churches did or do?

Shame on me if I did.

Yup we shouldn’t judge those who we in contact with althought the experience wasn’t that pleasing. I personally had that unpleasant situation with a priest before, although i am very angry for his unpolite attitude but then again nobody is perfect, coz i believe the church have no mistake, it is the pple who practise it got problem

 

[wahey]

we all worship the same god and god wouldnt want us fighting over the way one of us interprets somthing (im protestant and i dont worship the bible) ad i dont no what a literalist is so i cant say if i am one or not but i dont think i am i dont have problem with any denomination of christianity although there are some things i may not understand until they have been explained or i have researchd that paticular denomination

 

[catsrus]

ALLFORHIM, #3 & #4 of your “stories” were only ‘someone who heard something told you…’
Just that, stories.
As a Catholic who was raised and spent a good portion of my adulthood as a protestant, I can say that the op’s observation that “most” protestants misunderstand The Catholic Church is quite true.
I say that having been on both sides of the fence.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

ALLFORHIM, #3 & #4 of your “stories” were only ‘someone who heard something told you…’
Just that, stories.
As a Catholic who was raised and spent a good portion of my adulthood as a protestant, I can say that the op’s observation that “most” protestants misunderstand The Catholic Church is quite true.
I say that having been on both sides of the fence.

Hi,
Actually those stories came right from the horses mouth. She was telling me what happened to her personally.

But I do agree with you on other points. I actually never heard anything from any church(from the pulpit ever) The only thing I ever heard bad about catholics came from ex-catholics. Unfortunately I have personally had some bad experiences with the CC myself. But, I am here to learn so I can move on.

 

[Publisher]

Most of the stories I heard about the CC were from Protestants who had an axe to grind…the stories were from plain silly to quite serious…but most incorrect.

It was only after listening to Catholic Answers Live for the last several years, I have come to appreciate some of the depth of spirituality found in Catholicism. Friends share much with the Catholic/Orthodox mystics.

 

[CatholicGal1977]

In all do honesty, I think that many Protestants tend to worship the Bible the way they put it up on a pedestal as “the Final Authority” yet nowhere in the Bible does it say that it’s “the Final Authority”.

2 Tim 3:16

No. I’m sorry. It doesn’t read that scripture is indeed "the Final Authority. However, it DOES read that scripture is capable of giving you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus and that scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness [as a Christian].

If it really does mean “the Final Authority” then why didn’t the writter just come out and say that scripture is inspired by God and is the Final Authority for teaching, refutation, correction and training in righteousness [as a Christian] and that nothing else is good enough? As far a I’m concerned, the Bible is just ONE good tool in that respects, but not the ONLY tool since the verse in question doesn’t say it is.

You also have to remember, the books of the Bible were written at different times, for different audiences to give them hope and since the Catholic church choose the books of the NT to combine with the books of the OT well after 2 Timothy was written, THEN 2 Timothy 3:16 really is referring to the scripure in existence prior to 2 Timothy and therefore doesn’t include Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John, Jude, and Revelation. In addition, it should also include the gospels, like the Gospel of Phillip and Mary, which didn’t even make it into the final book we know as THE BIBLE. And finally, what about the apocryphal books? If all scripture is “the Final Authority” then the apocryphal books should be seen as such too. Remember, the Catholics out the apocryphal books into the Bible and were books that were removed during the reformation. I don’t rememebr the verse, but there’s a verse that says we shouldn’t be adding or subtracting from the Bible and yet Protestants subtracted from it during the Reformation by tossing out the apocryphal books.

 

[CatholicGal1977]

I don’t think it is fair to stereotype “all Protestants” or “all Catholics.”

lak611 and ALLFORHIM:

I’m NOT sterotyping all Protestants and I do remember saying, " think that many Protestants…", “…many of you…”, “…the majority of you”, and “I think many of you…”

Never once did I say “all Protestants”. So please don’t try and twist this around as so many fo you like to do.

One can’t deny that the majority of Protestants fit my initial post quite well. Those who don’t are, quite honestly, in the minority.

 

[CatholicGal1977]

Oh, and one more thing. I have never once seen a Protestant bow down to the Bible, get down on his or her knees in front of it and venerate or worship it.

One doesn’t have to bow down or get down on his or her hands and knees in front of something to worship it. That is a poor belief of worship as far as I’m concerned. People can worship something or someone WITHOUT having making it THAT obvious.

As far as I’m concerned, given THE WAY that many Protestants toute the Bible as “the Final Authority” and hold it especially dear to them is enough to really scare me at times to the point I believe they truly are worshiping it.

…the closest I’ve seen to Bible worship (not that it was) was in a Catholic church I attended for about 5 months (St. Mary’s in Ottawa, ON, CA). The Bible (the Gospels in particular) were taken up and down the aisles and kissed by the Priest. I personally don’t know of anything similar in any Protestant church.

That is far from worship and just a gesture of respect as far as I’m concerned. It would be no different than you travelling back into time to kiss Jesus, your Rabbi, as his loyal follower.

 

[CatholicGal1977]

I have never heard of the Rapture Theory being founded on a vision, but it is founded on St Paul’s writings in 1 Thess 15-18.

The key word is founded. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention a Rapture actually happening at some point in the distant future.

 

[CatholicGal1977]

True faith is always proved by works - as Jesus said “ye shall know them by their fruits” (what they do, what they produce)

Regardless if one is saved or not, they should be always doing good works simply because it’s the right thing to do. IMHO, one can have true faith and no works to show for it and there are those out there who do.

James makes it quite clear that you need to have faith and works, not just faith - i.e. faith WITHOUT works is dead. And Revelation, the NT book you draw your username from, makes it quite clear that in the end the great book of life shall open and we shall be judged according to our deeds (works). Those with them will enter into Heaven and those without them will be thrown into the pit of fire. In fact, Revelation 22: 12 reads:

**"Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds. **

Do you honestly think you’ll get recompose for just being saved and having no deeds (works) to show for it? If so, I have nothing but pity for you and others like you because you can’t just skirt freely into Heaven like that. It’s siply not fair to the rest of us who actually have deeds (works) under our belt.

One of the true beauties of the Catholic Church is how they embrace the whole What Would Jesus Do phrase by actually helping everyone who comes to them for help regardless of they’re Catholic, Protestant, Atheist, Agnostic, Pagan, Muslim, or Jewish in belief. As long as they need help, the Catholic Church provides it whereas many Protestant groups will only help their own kind. In other words, unless you become a Baptist, Lutheran, or what have you then you may as well forget about any kind of help.

 

[happygal]

Regardless if one is saved or not, they should be always doing good works simply because it’s the right thing to do. IMHO, one can have true faith and no works to show for it and there are those out there who do.

Yup i agree, be it you’re saved anot, one need to do good work

James makes it quite clear that you need to have faith and works, not just faith - i.e. faith WITHOUT works is dead. And Revelation, the NT book you draw your username from, makes it quite clear that in the end the great book of life shall open and we shall be judged according to our deeds (works). Those with them will enter into Heaven and those without them will be thrown into the pit of fire. In fact, Revelation 22: 12 reads:

Faith produce work which is the manifestation of Holy Spirit, but how one’s are really move by spirit to do good work, then that is pretty sujective, coz only they themselve and God will know if they are really out to help others or just for the forsake of doing it

**"Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds. **

Do you honestly think you’ll get recompose for just being saved and having no deeds (works) to show for it? If so, I have nothing but pity for you and others like you because you can’t just skirt freely into Heaven like that. It’s siply not fair to the rest of us who actually have deeds (works) under our belt.

**Well i rather don’t say is unfair, but as a believers helping others and doing good deeds are always inside our heart, for God is caring and loving, thus as his servant how can we not follow what he wanted us to do **

One of the true beauties of the Catholic Church is how they embrace the whole What Would Jesus Do phrase by actually helping everyone who comes to them for help regardless of they’re Catholic, Protestant, Atheist, Agnostic, Pagan, Muslim, or Jewish in belief. As long as they need help, the Catholic Church provides it whereas many Protestant groups will only help their own kind. In other words, unless you become a Baptist, Lutheran, or what have you then you may as well forget about any kind of help.

Hm, probably not all protestant helps within their own community, it all bolt down to their own churches and ministries. My church serve charity and give money to all the needy in regards to their races/religion. God never request us to pick who we want to help

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Regardless if one is saved or not, they should be always doing good works simply because it’s the right thing to do. IMHO, one can have true faith and no works to show for it and there are those out there who do.

**"Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds. **

Be careful how you are judging you have no idea what churches help and what churches do as you say. Even saying many is a sweeping generalization.

 

[MGEISING]

The key word is founded. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention a Rapture actually happening at some point in the distant future.

I find it hard to believe … that when one hears things like this from their preacher … and uses one quote from the entire Holy Bible … butabing - butaboom … it is the message they promote. I just don’t get it!

History, History, History … without studying it, investigating it, no one will ever have the full story. How much importance does History play in our lives …

Health History
History of Wars
History of the Weather
History of the STock Market
Etc.

To be deep in History, is to cease to be Protestant - John Henry Newman