Messianic Jew Breakoff Thread

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The following post was made by CarolsDaughter. So please elaborate on the 3 major points or rather 2 points and a lasting insult it seemed [keep in mind I still struggle with solo scriptura and would love to see a exegetical reply to the thread you high jacked from me reguarding “**Messianic Jew”]:
  1. Jeconiah discrepancy
  2. Deut. 4 - God does not become man
  3. Egypian fleshpot
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolsDaughter forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*I’d be curious to know how you explain the Jeconiah discrepancy in Jesus’ genealogy. In Jeremiah it says that Jeconiah would be childless as a Divine punishment, and that no ancestor of his would ever sit on the throne of David (i.e., could never be Messiah.) Yet when we read Jesus’ genealogy in Matthew, we see Jeconiah in it. I realize Christians do not believe Joseph was the literal father of Jesus, but in order for Jesus to be the Jewish Messiah, he would have HAD to be physically descended from an ancestor of King David. Mary’s genealogy does not count because in Judaism, only paternal lineage is counted for Messianic ancestry proof.

Also, I’d be curious to know how you deal with Christianity’s belief that Jesus is God become man (chas ve’sholom), when a cardinal tenet of not only Judaism but the Bible (Deut. 4) is that God does NOT become man?

I would like to invite you to discover your birthright religion…hardly any Jews who join other religions were religious as Jews before they did so. Why not give your birthright religion a chance before going after the Egyptian fleshpots, so to speak?

If you’d like to check it out, visit chabad.org for starters.*
 
The following post was made by CarolsDaughter. So please elaborate on the 3 major points or rather 2 points and a lasting insult it seemed [keep in mind I still struggle with solo scriptura and would love to see a exegetical reply to the thread you high jacked from me reguarding "**Messianic Jew
"]:
  1. Jeconiah discrepancy
  2. Deut. 4 - God does not become man
  3. Egypian fleshpot
Matthew and Luke lineages are for Joseph the Carpenter and Joseph of Arimathea who acted as fathers to Jesus. Jesus was the son of David and Bathsheba that God caused to die for David’s sin, resurrected into Mary. So his lineage is immediate, from David to Jesus in an unbroken line.

God does not become man, but God can give a man so much power he is like God to us. That is Jesus.

Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
 
Matthew and Luke lineages are for Joseph the Carpenter and Joseph of Arimathea who acted as fathers to Jesus. Jesus was the son of David and Bathsheba that God caused to die for David’s sin, resurrected into Mary. So his lineage is immediate, from David to Jesus in an unbroken line.
Dear FoA,

I think you have not forgotten me yet. Please show the exact wording in the bible which say that, so that I can believe you. I understand your logic, but I think you misinterpret the bible. Since you are a sola scriptura (and you are proud of it), then please show us the exact verse of the bible which support your own word which I bolded and colored.

You cannot accept the fact that Jesus is a son of God although many verses in the bible indicated so. I have no problem for that, because you are welcome to believe what you believe. Now it is my turn to ask the exact bible verse which support your words, not your interpretation of some verses. You are not a “double standard” kind of person, are you?
 
God does not become man, but God can give a man so much power he is like God to us. That is Jesus.

**** W * R * O * N * G * !!!*

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God. John 1:1.

I confess there is no God but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate.**
 
Dear FoA,

I think you have not forgotten me yet. Please show the exact wording in the bible which say that, so that I can believe you. I understand your logic, but I think you misinterpret the bible. Since you are a sola scriptura (and you are proud of it), then please show us the exact verse of the bible which support your own word which I bolded and colored.
There is no exact wording, if there was that’s what would be taught. Exactly how Jesus got his human flesh is a mystery to everyone.
You cannot accept the fact that Jesus is a son of God although many verses in the bible indicated so.
I accept it in this way:

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The person of Jesus was born fully human, we all agree on that. Only Christians say he was born fully human, AND fully God.

But then Christians don’t usually argue that the human part of Jesus existed eternally as God. So then something other than the Jesus we know today was there in John 1:1, not the complete person of Jesus.

So then why do you say Jesus was there in John 1:1 when he didn’t even exist yet until the human part of him also existed when he was born?

Unless maybe you think the human part of him doesn’t really matter, which I think is an insult to the MAN Jesus even though you honor him with being God.
 
FaithofAbraham;:
Matthew and Luke lineages are for Joseph the Carpenter and Joseph of Arimathea who
The “Joseph of Arimathea” claim is from Celtic Christianity. I’ve never seen a justification for that claim, and it does not follow "the plain meaning"of the text.

xan

jonathon
 
The “Joseph of Arimathea” claim is from Celtic Christianity. I’ve never seen a justification for that claim, and it does not follow "the plain meaning"of the text.
It’s from what is said in the NT, I don’t know about any Celtic beliefs. There were two Josephs around like fathers to Jesus. The Carpenter who was there at the birth, and Arimathea who put him in his own tomb like a father would a son.
 
There is no exact wording, if there was that’s what would be taught. Exactly how Jesus got his human flesh is a mystery to everyone.

I accept it in this way:

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The person of Jesus was born fully human, we all agree on that. Only Christians say he was born fully human, AND fully God.

But then Christians don’t usually argue that the human part of Jesus existed eternally as God. So then something other than the Jesus we know today was there in John 1:1, not the complete person of Jesus.

So then why do you say Jesus was there in John 1:1 when he didn’t even exist yet until the human part of him also existed when he was born?

Unless maybe you think the human part of him doesn’t really matter, which I think is an insult to the MAN Jesus even though you honor him with being God.
Dear FoA,

Nobody knows the complete mistery of God, we can understand that, FoA. But, how exactly can you conclude that the mamzer of David and Betsheba was Jesus? That must be explained, at least how you came out into such conclusion. Please understand that I am just interested into your reasoning, not your conclusion. Who knows that you made something interesting for the Theologian community. Otherwise, anybody can say that anything about the bible just by reasoning that it is the mistery of God. For instance, nobody understand the concept of Trinity to 100% completeness, but still many studies has been conducted to come into whatever conclusion about the Trinity the Church has as of now.

I apologize for not making myself clear. My point was not about Jesus being God and Man at the same time. I took it as an example. My point was that you as a sola scripturist must base whatever conclusion about your belief on what is written in the bible. You cannot be a sola scripturist when you demand the proof that Jesus is God expressedly written in the bible, but not being a sola scripturist when you came out to the conclusion that the mamzer of David and Batsheba was indeed Jesus.
 
Dear FoA,

Nobody knows the complete mistery of God, we can understand that, FoA. But, how exactly can you conclude that the mamzer of David and Betsheba was Jesus? That must be explained, at least how you came out into such conclusion.
Well first I believe resurrection is being conceived and born again by God, so this clears up any mamzer issues for people.

1 Corinthians 15:35-36 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

So now that you have that, you have the promise to David his son would have an everlasting kingdom, and this son would be called the Son of God:

2 Samuel 7:12-14 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

And David was also promised that he would always have a man on the throne:

1 Kings 9:5 Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.

Solomon followed other gods and did not keep the conditions and later the throne fell with Babylon. So for God to keep His promise to David, another of his sons could be made king, and David would always have a son who was King on an everlasting throne and kingdom.

So there was the child that already died to save David’s Kingdom from God’s enemies, Solomon’s older brother.

Matthew 12:42 …behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

And resurrected as Jesus he died again to save people, then bring them into David’s Kingdom that he saved.

There’s more but that’s one reasoning behind my belief.
 
Dear FoA,

That is good. This is a kind of reasoning I am waiting from you. I’ll get back to you later on. See you soon
 
Dear FoA,

Now you are departing from being a sola scripturist when I ask you how you reach your conclusion. I see no problem with that, since the bible cannot explain everything 100% if separated from the Tradition. I also do not want to judge your conclusion based on your contemplation of the verses you brought up. Anyway, you are making a good reasoning of whatever conclusion you reach based on bible verses. That is the way also that the RCC based its teachings/dogmas from, i.e derived from the bible verses under the guidance of the Holyspirit.

I wonder what translation of the bible you are using, mine is the Contemporary English Version, American Edition. 2 Samuel 7:12-14 is (started from last sentence of verse 11) "Now I (in this case, God) promise that you and your descendents (see in plural) will be kings (also plural). I will choose one of your sons (plural) to be king (singular) when you reach the end of your life and are buried in the tomb of your ancestors. I’ll make him a strong ruler, and no one will be able to take his kingdom away from him. He will be the one to build a temple for Me. I will be his father and he will be my son…

If you take a look of the sentence I bolded, that verse related to Salomon, because it is clear that Salomon was the King who finally build the great temple of the Lord. That verse does not related to Jesus. If we go on to verse 15, the Lord did corrected Salomon for the mistakes he made during his lifetime. Now, look at the word in which I emphasize the singular/plural condition. The decendents of David were many, as David has many sons. The decendents of David were crowned to be kings. We know that those kings became bad and were away from God. You are correct that Salomon could not be the Messiah. But that is not a strong case that the Mamzer of David was the Messiah. The verses do not specify who the mother of the Messiah, decendent of David. Besides, David has many sons beside Salomon and the mamzer.

Anyway, you are correct that the decendent of David (not necessarily direct son resulted from the sperm of David) would be a Messiah, a king whose kingdom will last forever. You are also correct to say that the decendent mentioned was Jesus. Jesus has a similarity with Salomon. Salomon build the temple for the Lord in 46 years. Jesus as also being a temple for God rebuild that temple in 3 days.

Now, why can’t the mamzer of David was indeed Jesus?. Look from Psalm and Zechariah prophecy. “They divided up my clothes and gambled for my garments”, “No bone of his body will be broken”, “They will see the the one in whose side they stuck a spear”. None of those prophecies applied to the mamzer of David, but applied to Jesus. So, the mamzer of David could not be Jesus.

Later on we will discuss about why we believe that Jesus is God based on the bible, in the same way you are using for making your conclusion. But, it will be off topic. My reply is already off topic anyway.
 
I wonder what translation of the bible you are using, mine is the Contemporary English Version, American Edition.
I use either KJV.

Or JPS which has full Hebrew translation and usually similar to KJV:

2 Samuel 7:12-14
יב כִּי יִמְלְאוּ יָמֶיךָ, וְשָׁכַבְתָּ אֶת-אֲבֹתֶיךָ, וַהֲקִימֹתִי אֶת-זַרְעֲךָ אַחֲרֶיךָ, אֲשֶׁר יֵצֵא מִמֵּעֶיךָ; וַהֲכִינֹתִי, אֶת-מַמְלַכְתּוֹ. 12 When thy days are fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, that shall proceed out of thy body, and I will establish his kingdom.
יג הוּא יִבְנֶה-בַּיִת, לִשְׁמִי; וְכֹנַנְתִּי אֶת-כִּסֵּא מַמְלַכְתּוֹ, עַד-עוֹלָם. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
יד אֲנִי אֶהְיֶה-לּוֹ לְאָב, וְהוּא יִהְיֶה-לִּי לְבֵן–אֲשֶׁר, בְּהַעֲו‍ֹתוֹ, וְהֹכַחְתִּיו בְּשֵׁבֶט אֲנָשִׁים, וּבְנִגְעֵי בְּנֵי אָדָם. 14 I will be to him for a father, and he shall be to Me for a son; if he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men;
2 Samuel 7:12-14 is (started from last sentence of verse 11) "Now I (in this case, God) promise that you and your descendents (see in plural) will be kings (also plural). I will choose one of your sons (plural) to be king (singular) when you reach the end of your life and are buried in the tomb of your ancestors. I’ll make him a strong ruler,

and no one will be able to take his kingdom away from him.
But what happened to Solomon?

1 Kings 11:11and he said to Solomon: You did what you wanted and not what I told you to do. Now I’m going to take your kingdom from you and give it to one of your officials.
He will be the one to build a temple for Me. I will be his father and he will be my son…

If you take a look of the sentence I bolded, that verse related to Salomon, because it is clear that Salomon was the King who finally build the great temple of the Lord. That verse does not related to Jesus.
But Jesus is THE Son of God, and builds God’s true and everlasting Temple, not Solomon:

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Plus as I showed Solomon did have his kingdom taken away. So I don’t believe the real promise of 2 Samuel 7:12-14 was for Solomon, but for Jesus being David’s own son.

Solomon was only a faint shadow of that promise, not a fulfillment of it.
Now, why can’t the mamzer of David was indeed Jesus?. Look from Psalm and Zechariah prophecy. “They divided up my clothes and gambled for my garments”, “No bone of his body will be broken”, “They will see the the one in whose side they stuck a spear”. None of those prophecies applied to the mamzer of David, but applied to Jesus. So, the mamzer of David could not be Jesus.
Why not? If the dead child was resurrected as Jesus who was later on the cross, it would still apply. Not seeing your reasoning here.
 
That is it, 2 Samuel 7:12-14 was about Salomon. Salomon did build a temple of God, not David. Jesus did not build the physical temple, as Jesus is the TEMPLE itself. But Jesus can rebuild the temple in three days. I agree with you for this point.

You don’t see the point of the prophecies about Jesus, FoA. During the crucifiction of Jesus, many prophecies about that occurence were fulfilled, and the coming of the Messiah was done once for all time. You don’t have to be in contradiction with Paul. Gods plan as mentioned in the Genesis is just once and for all time (since the moment Adam fell into sin until the end of time). If the Messiah has to come twice, then the salvation plan of God is incomplete. God cannot make an incomplete plan, so much that God must re-execute his plan to make things complete and perfect. God is perfect, and I believe that no one can deny that. I hope you have a better picture now.

You are an interesting counterpart for discussion, and I must admit that. At least, you realize that the bible alone cannot explain God’s plan 100%. The majority (say more than 90%), => yes. 100% => no.
 
That is it, 2 Samuel 7:12-14 was about Salomon. Salomon did build a temple of God, not David. Jesus did not build the physical temple, as Jesus is the TEMPLE itself. But Jesus can rebuild the temple in three days. I agree with you for this point.
How can this be about Solomon:

2 Samuel 7:12-14 and no one will be able to take his kingdom away from him.

When Solomon had his kingdom taken away:

1 Kings 11:11 Now I’m going to take your kingdom from you

?
If the Messiah has to come twice, then the salvation plan of God is incomplete.
He IS coming a second time when he returns. So why not a third.
 
On the other hand, if the genealogy in Matthew is taken seriously, then Jesus has as an ancestor Jeconiah (Matthew 1:12), of whom the prophet Jeremiah said, “Write this man down as childless, a man who will not prosper in his days, for no man of his descendants will prosper sitting on the throne of David or ruling again in Judah.” (Jeremiah 22:30) The genealogy in Luke suffers from the same problem, since it includes Shealtiel and Zerubbabel, both of whom were descendants of Jeconiah.
I personally am not convinced this ‘Jeconiah’ problem EVEN EXISTS, and here’s why:

I don’t think the prophecy in Jeremiah is referring to Jeconiah’s descendants FOR ALL TIME. The context of the passage seems to limit the scope to just his immediate descendants:

The phrase ‘in his lifetime’ (lit. “in his days”- yom) focuses the passage on the immediate future;
the “for” word connects the ‘no man of his descendants’ with the ‘in his lifetime’–the strong casual relationship between not-prospering-now and his descendants is strong evidence for an immediate future context;
the ‘again’ word ('od) is not the “big” FOREVER word: ad-olam or le-olam.
Immediately after this passage, Jeremiah relays a promise by Yahweh to raise up ‘a righteous branch to David’ --a promise of the continuing line of David! Could Jeremiah have been so blind as to not notice such a contradiction (if the preceding passage referred to the ‘end of the Davidic line’?!) It looks much more likely that this is a deposing of Jeconiah, and a promise of a better king from the stock of David (maybe even from non-immediate/non-physical descendants of Jeconiah?).

This his-generation-only-curse view is pointed out by commentators as well:
“The image in v 30 shifts to that of a scribe, whether a census taker (as Holladay suggests) or land register (as Carroll suggests) or a scribe tallying prisoners of war to be taken to Babylon. The official in charge says of Jehoiachin, “Write (register) this man, ‘Stripped’ (perhaps dishonored, disgraced) or ‘Childless.’” A register of those taken captive would logically include the head of the family followed by a listing of dependents. It might also include comments such as disgraced, banished (as LXX implies), or stripped (of power). Such is to remain the condition of Jehoiachin. The fact that children are apparently included in v 28, and sons are listed in 1 Chr 3:17–18, should not diminish the thrust of the oracle. The sense of “childless” or “stripped” is that Jehoiachin will have no descendant ruling upon the throne of David. The word tslach occurs twice in this verse. Often the word is translated with the sense of “prosper.” However, here a better sense seems to be that of “succeed.” No man will succeed during Jehoiachin’s days; indeed none will succeed. The implication might be that of prosperity: that no man would prosper during his days. But the full intent of that phrase is shown in the two parallel lines, “none sitting on the throne of David, nor ruling again in Judah.” Jehoiachin will have no descendant to advance or succeed to the throne.” [Craigie, P. C. (2002). Vol. 26: Word Biblical Commentary : Jeremiah 1-25. ]

So, if the prophecy of Jeconiah is NOT to be extended past his immediate descendants, as I have just argued, then Jim’s problem evaporates.

EVEN IF the passage IS a longer-range prediction, the line THROUGH Jeconiah only comes to Joseph and not to Mary. The gene-stream stops physically at Joseph through the virgin birth. Therefore, Jeconiah, who is only mentioned in Matthew (the legal line to Joseph) doesn’t ‘pass on the blood’ (assuming ‘descendants’ referred to bloodline, of course).

But many commentators understand the curse to have been rescinded by God in Haggai anyway:

“Jehoiachin’s name appears in Matthew’s genealogy of Jesus Christ (1:11, 12), and some contend this contradicts Jeremiah’s oracle of judgment against the king’s descendants (Jer 22:30). Yet it is possible to understand Haggai’s blessing of Zerubabbel (2:20–24) as the rescission of Jeremiah’s curse and the reinstatement of Jehoiachin’s line on the Davidic (and ultimately Messianic) throne (cf. Is 56:3–5).” [Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible.].

Rabbinic tradition generally agrees with this as well:

“for no man of his seed shall prosper -In this, too, no man of his seed shall prosper, namely that no one will occupy the throne of David nor rule in Judah. Although we find that Zerubbabel, his great grandson, did rule over Judah upon the return of the exiles, the Rabbis (Pesikta /'Rav Kahana p. 163a) state that this : ‘was because Jehoiachin repented in prison. They state further: Repentance is great, for it nullifies a person’s sentence, as it is stated: inscribe this man childless.’ But since he repented, his sentence was revoked and turned to the good, and he said to him, “I will take you, Zerubbabel, and I will make you a signet” (Haggai 2:23). They state further: Said Rabbi Johanan: Exile expiates all sins, as it is said: Inscribe this man childless,” and after he was exiled, it IS written: '(I Chron. 3:17) And the sons of Jeconiah, Assir, Shealtiel his son–Redak" [Judaica Books of the Prophets, in loc]

[Notice how this parallels the known case of Manasseh, the evil Davidic king who was exiled by Assyria to its southern province in Babylon, and who then repented and was restored to rulership in Judah–2 Chron 33.10-13.]

This highly-probable understanding completely removes any problem with Jeconiah in anyone’s geneaology. And thus we do not really even NEED any ‘additional’ lineage ‘around him’, to establish legitimate Davidic-dynastic heritage. [We will discuss the ‘why then did Luke use Nathan?’ issue below, at the END of the article.]

Now the issue about Shealtiel and Zerubbabel I find intriguing. The argument Jim makes here is that THEY are descendants of the ‘bad Jeconiah’ and THEY show up in BOTH the legal AND the physical lineages of Jesus. And, if the prophecy in Jeremiah is taken to mean a long-range restriction (which I/many others do NOT believe is the case, see above), then we clearly have a problem in the Lukan, physical/gene-stream lineage of Jesus.

christian-thinktank.com/fabprof4.html
 
I have a Jewish background and I find your interpretations laughable.

Isaiah 19:18-25

18 In that day five cities in Egypt will speak the language of Canaan and swear allegiance to the LORD Almighty. One of them will be called the City of Destruction.

19 In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. 20 It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them. 21 So the LORD will make himself known to the Egyptians, and in that day they will acknowledge the LORD. They will worship with sacrifices and grain offerings; they will make vows to the LORD and keep them. 22 The LORD will strike Egypt with a plague; he will strike them and heal them. **They will turn to the LORD, and he will respond to their pleas and heal them. **
23 In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria. The **Assyrians will go to Egypt and the Egyptians to Assyria. The Egyptians and Assyrians will worship together. **24 In that day Israel will be the third, along with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing on the earth. 25 The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, "Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance."
 
How can this be about Solomon:

2 Samuel 7:12-14 and no one will be able to take his kingdom away from him.

When Solomon had his kingdom taken away:

1 Kings 11:11 Now I’m going to take your kingdom from you

?

He IS coming a second time when he returns. So why not a third.
Dear FoA,

Can anybody take the kingdom of Israel from Salomon? History said no. Why God said to take away the kingdom in 1 Kings? Because as you said (also the bible said, and I agree with you), Salomon fell into the idolatry worshipping due to his marriages to foreign wives. So, Salomon fell into what 2 Samuel 7:14. Do you see? The verse was taking about Salomon, not Jesus. Now, take a look about Jesus. (a) Jesus is the son of God (you agree with that, don’t you). (b) Jesus never disobey God. (c) Jesus was crowned as a King (See the Revelation to John). (d) Jesus’ kingdom will have no end. (e) Jesus did not build a temple of the Lord. Jesus was/is the temple itself. Jesus rebuild, not build the temple. So, 2 Samuel 7:12-14 is taking about Salomon.

Yes, Jesus will come again. But his incoming day will be in His Glory, and not to Redeem the world. That has been done. Jesus second coming will be as the King of the world, and no need for the third coming as you said. So, you asked why not the third? The answer is : It is not necessary. After the second coming, all the universe will bow to Jesus as the king. Satan will no longer exist at that time.
 
Can anybody take the kingdom of Israel from Salomon? History said no.
But I just showed you God took it away from Solomon here:

1 Kings 11:11 Now I’m going to take your kingdom from you

So Solomon cannot be this man here:

2 Samuel 7:12-14 and no one will be able to take his kingdom away from him.

How do you say Solomon both did and did not have his kingdom taken away?
Jesus was/is the temple itself. Jesus rebuild, not build the temple. So, 2 Samuel 7:12-14 is taking about Salomon.
Jesus builds a new Temple without human hands, not rebuilds the old one of stone.
Yes, Jesus will come again. But his incoming day will be in His Glory, and not to Redeem the world.
But you said before Jesus only came once.

A third time would be necessary as the very first time, being born the immediate Son of David and Bathsheba who could claim the promise of an everlasting kingdom from father to son and fulfill 2 Samuel.

If you have Jesus born only a first time from Mary then you have huge gaps of generations with no king of David which breaks God’s promise.

Remember lost time is not an issue, but lost generations without a king are, and that is fixed with his resurrection into Mary straight from being prince of David.
 
But I just showed you God took it away from Solomon here:

1 Kings 11:11 Now I’m going to take your kingdom from you

So Solomon cannot be this man here:

2 Samuel 7:12-14 and no one will be able to take his kingdom away from him.

How do you say Solomon both did and did not have his kingdom taken away?

Jesus builds a new Temple without human hands, not rebuilds the old one of stone.

But you said before Jesus only came once.

A third time would be necessary as the very first time, being born the immediate Son of David and Bathsheba who could claim the promise of an everlasting kingdom from father to son and fulfill 2 Samuel.

If you have Jesus born only a first time from Mary then you have huge gaps of generations with no king of David which breaks God’s promise.

Remember lost time is not an issue, but lost generations without a king are, and that is fixed with his resurrection into Mary straight from being prince of David.
2 Samuel 7:14 still on verse 14, from your own translation.
14 I will be to him for a father, and he shall be to Me for a son; if he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men;

Did God chasten and stripes that King whom he promised earlier that no one will be able to take the kingdom away? Yes, God did. Does it apply to Jesus? No way.

No one took the kingdom of Israel from Salomon. God did. When you read a verse of a bible, don’t make any conclusion too fast, dear brother. Finished reading first.

The meaning of Jesus coming to the world is to redeem the world. How many times that Jesus must redeem the world? There the answer is once, and it is in accordance with Paul, in accordance with the plan of God as mentioned in Genesis, and also in accordance to whoever wrote the letter to the Hebrew. When Jesus come again for the second time, He will not come to redeem the world. His second coming will be as the Word of God. When it happens, why would the third? and if you say the third is needed, why not the fourth, fifth, etc…?

BTW, I agree that Jesus did not build the temple by mean of physical stones. But, you don’t get my point. Jesus never build a temple even not in physical stones. Jesus is the temple itself, begotten directly from God. So, the temple in the form of Jesus is not created. It is begotten from God. So, still 2 Samuel 7:12 does not apply to Jesus.
 
No one took the kingdom of Israel from Salomon. God did.
Is God no one?
The meaning of Jesus coming to the world is to redeem the world. How many times that Jesus must redeem the world? There the answer is once, and it is in accordance with Paul, in accordance with the plan of God as mentioned in Genesis, and also in accordance to whoever wrote the letter to the Hebrew. When Jesus come again for the second time, He will not come to redeem the world. His second coming will be as the Word of God. When it happens, why would the third? and if you say the third is needed, why not the fourth, fifth, etc…?
Well I never said Jesus came as son of David and Bathsheba to redeem the world, you keep saying I say that. I say he came for a different reason, just like he comes the second and third times for different reasons.
Jesus never build a temple…
Incorrect.

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Ephesians 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
 
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