Messianic Jew

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What I said was that some Christian theologians (I actually meant Protestant ones, since those are the ones I usually deal with) had TRANSLATED certain passages from the Hebrew to better fit Jesus.

One example: in Isaiah 7:14, the CORRECT Hebrew word is “ha’alma” which means YOUNG WOMAN.

Christians mistranslated it as “virgin”, so as to better fit the concept that Jesus was supposedly born of a virgin.

In Hebrew there are TWO DIFFERENT words for “virgin” and “young woman”, but evidently they didn’t realize that.

Virgin is betulah, while young woman is alma.
The modern Catholic perspective, from an entry in Catholic Encyclopedia, endorses a viewpoint that Luke, the writer of the gospel used a previous document that was written in, or inspired by a Hebrew text:

In point of fact the history of the infancy as found in the third Gospel [Luke] (1:5 to 2:52) betrays in its contents, its language, and style a Jewish-Christian source. The whole passage reads like a chapter from the First Book of Machabees; Jewish customs, and laws, and peculiarities are introduced without any further explanation; the “Magnificat”, the “Benedictus”, and the “Nunc dimittis” are filled with national Jewish ideas. As to the style and language of the history of the infancy, both are so thoroughly Semitic that the passage must be retranslated into Hebrew or Aramaic in order to be properly appreciated. We must conclude, then, that St. Luke’s immediate source for the history of the infancy was not an oral, but a written one.[2]

On translating the Greek Textus Receptus of Matthew 1:23, there is little problem in translating the Greek word “parthenos” as “virgin” which is the usual Greek word for virgin:

(Matthew 1:23 Greek Textus Receptus) …] ιδού η παρθένος εν γαστρί έξει και τέξεται υιόν και καλέσουσιν το όνομα αυτού Εμμανουήλ ο έστιν μεθερμηνευόμενος μεθ’ ημών ο Θεός.

It is from the transliteration of the Greek text that the spelling Emmanuel was introduced for the Hebrew name Immanuel.

Upon examination of the Greek Septuagint text at Isaiah 7:14 one can also find the word 'parthenos"(“virgin”) rather than the usual Greek word “neanis” for “young woman”.

However, the use of the Hebrew word “almah” in the Masoretic Text of the Hebrew Bible has stirred controversy among a number of scholars and in fact has produced what is known as The Almah Controversy. This has resulted in variations between Bible translations,with some translations using “young woman” as does the New English Translation or NET Bible:

An almah is an unmarried, virginal, sexually ripening young woman (all these notions in the definition are crucial); a betulah is a virginal married or unmarried woman, and she may be old, she does not have to be young; a na’arah is a girl or young woman; a zonah is a non-virginal harlot or prostitute; a noefet is an adulteress; an agunah is a woman whose husband’s whereabouts are unknown [see Ro 7:2 OJBC]; a pilegesh is a concubine; an isha is a woman/wife; a gerushah is a divorcee; a gevirah is a noble woman or queen mother; a malkah is a queen, etc.

I am aware of the translation issues and the involvement of one noun, two nouns, adjectives,verbs, etc…

But you must also realize that this was a prophetic vision and that the young woman was pregnant already with Jesus so the word virgin at that point would have been a challenge to state as she was pregnant and in trying to use the proper grammar at the time.

In trying to describe young, married, virgin, and pregnant well you can see the diffulcult as seen by Isaiah

Never the less the Jewish authorities accepted the Greek translation several hundred years prior to the birth of Christ. Then went and re-looked at it.
 
Before anyone says anything, yes I am still leaving this forum effective tommorrow. I forget which thread it was that some Catholics were trying to convert me, using links to Jews who had become Catholics.

Well, I finally decided to visit a few of them, and was esp. interested in this one which someone posted:

catholic.com/seminars/moss.asp

It seems this woman did not convert to Catholicism from Judaism, but from 18 years in Protestantism. That’s not quite the same thing!

And when I saw how much money she charges for a speaking engagement (amost 2K!), I came to see just how lucrative missions to the Jews can be…
Costs include an honorarium of $1,600 plus travel expenses. This includes two talks on the day of the event. Additional talks on the same day are $400.<<<

And to think I have spent the last 30 years of my life working as a countermissionary, to get Jews out of cults, and I’ve done it all for FREE.
 
carolsdaughter,

I never got the sense that Rosalind Moss’ mission is to convert Jews.

Also, do you consider Catholicism a “cult?”
 
Before anyone says anything, yes I am still leaving this forum effective tommorrow. I forget which thread it was that some Catholics were trying to convert me, using links to Jews who had become Catholics.

Well, I finally decided to visit a few of them, and was esp. interested in this one which someone posted:

catholic.com/seminars/moss.asp

It seems this woman did not convert to Catholicism from Judaism, but from 18 years in Protestantism. That’s not quite the same thing!

And when I saw how much money she charges for a speaking engagement (amost 2K!), I came to see just how lucrative missions to the Jews can be…
Speaker Fees:
American Jewish Historical Society Academic Council Speakers Bureau
Members of the Academic Council’s Speakers Bureau lecture on a wide array of topics in American Jewish history, life and culture.

Arranging for an American Jewish Historical Society Speaker
Speakers’ fees are $500.00 per talk, plus travel and expenses.

The Speakers Bureau brochure is divided into three sections to help you select a speaker and topic of your choice:

View Alphabetical List of Speakers and Their Topics
View Geographical List of Speakers and Their Topics
View Topical List of Speakers
Once you have identified a speaker and topic that interests you, please call the American Jewish Historical Society directly. The Society will schedule the speaker for you, and put him or her in touch with you.

To schedule a speaker, please contact:

What is your point on speaker charges?

Many times these speakers are brought in by charitable groups Most Religious denomination to include Jewish there is usually a fee to attend and the proceeds going to charity.

Are you saying people do not need to make a living?

I know of a Jewish speaker that charges in excess of $10,000 a speaking engagement and speaks on ortrodoxy.

Thanks for the hyper link I love hearing Mrs. Ross on radio and tv
 
I’m writing another long response that keeps gettig interupted by computer problems.

It’s NOT MRS. Ross…but rather Ms. Rosalind Moss. She’s starting a new Order, I assume for women.
 
I’m writing another long response that keeps gettig interupted by computer problems.

It’s NOT MRS. Ross…but rather Ms. Rosalind Moss. She’s starting a new Order, I assume for women.
I stand corrected, thanks
 
I was not Proselytizing you Carolsdaughter, I only love well transformed Jewish and Catholic women. They are 2 peas in a pod. I love Rosalind Moss. She is just so sweet to me. She grew on me. Sure she converted many years ago. But she is not the only. Many Christians Jews have converted to Protestant faiths merely because they either proselytize or actually eveangelize, like we are supposed to do. But to understand the true meaning of what NOT to do, read the Doctrinal Note on Some Aspects of Evangelization: Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/cdfaspevang.HTM

Draw you own conclusions based on what the document teaches. The following 2 quotes are from this link I’ve provided. Some people don’t seem to understand this.
The primary motive of evangelization is the love of Christ for the eternal salvation of all. The sole desire of authentic evangelizers is to bestow freely what they themselves have freely received: “From the very origins of the Church, the disciples of Christ strove to convert men to faith in Christ the Lord; not, however, through coercion or tactics unworthy of the Gospel, but above all by the power of the word of God”.[25]
In this connection, it needs also to be recalled that if a non-Catholic Christian, for reasons of conscience and having been convinced of Catholic truth, asks to enter into the full communion of the Catholic Church, this is to be respected as the work of the Holy Spirit and as an expression of freedom of conscience and of religion. In such a case, it would not be a question of proselytism in the negative sense that has been attributed to this term.[49] As explicitly recognized in the Decree on Ecumenism of the Second Vatican Council, “it is evident that the work of preparing and reconciling those individuals who desire full Catholic communion is of its nature distinct from ecumenical action, but there is no opposition between the two, since both proceed from the marvelous ways of God”.[50] Therefore, the work of ecumenism does not remove the right or take away the responsibility of proclaiming in fullness the Catholic faith to other Christians, who freely wish to receive it.
 
Before anyone says anything, yes I am still leaving this forum effective tommorrow. I forget which thread it was that some Catholics were trying to convert me, using links to Jews who had become Catholics.

Well, I finally decided to visit a few of them, and was esp. interested in this one which someone posted:

catholic.com/seminars/moss.asp

It seems this woman did not convert to Catholicism from Judaism, but from 18 years in Protestantism. That’s not quite the same thing!

And when I saw how much money she charges for a speaking engagement (amost 2K!), I came to see just how lucrative missions to the Jews can be…
Speaker Fees:
You mean to say you would rent an auditorium or classroom or an arena or a classroom and then not ask for a fee for those who come, not even to pay for renting the place? You need not put yourself on debts you can’t afford, however generous you can be…
 
I’m writing another long response that keeps gettig interupted by computer problems.

It’s NOT MRS. Ross…but rather Ms. Rosalind Moss. She’s starting a new Order, I assume for women.
If she were a widow, she could then be called Mrs. all right! If she is not married, wouldn’t that make her a Miss?
I am not really fond of this expression (Ms.)🤷 Oh, well!!
 
Can anybody tell me the difference between the group Jews For Jesus and the Messianic Jews? I believe both groups are Protestant, maybe even Evangelical Protestants both of them. If so, how do you tell one from the other? Thanks!
 
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