Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

[luvthelight]

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080621/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_missionaries

 

[system]

I love how they try to minimize things.
From the article:

and last month ultra-Orthodox Jews torched a stack of Christian holy books distributed by missionaries.

The were NEW TESTAMENTS. They were bibles. Yes, the bible as we Catholics know it was torched on the streets of Israel.

They really don’t want to hear from the messianic Jews. And it’s a tough thing for them. I mean, if you believe Christ was the messiah, you’re going to want to preach it. But that society does not stand for the proselytizing!

 

[Yerusalyim]

Proselytizing is strongly discouraged in Israel, a state that was established for a people that suffered centuries of persecution for not accepting Jesus and has little tolerance for missionary work.

I in no way condone the violence, but given the history of Christian “proselytizing” especially in Europe throughout history, is it any wonder Jews don’t want them in Israel?

 

[grandfather]

I in no way condone the violence, but given the history of Christian “proselytizing” especially in Europe throughout history, is it any wonder Jews don’t want them in Israel?

It is an amazing thing that so many Christians in the west support Israel. There is no political reason for it. The notion that it is the only democracy in the region was echoed for decades, but that does not seem to have changed or effected anything there for the better. It is not the violence that is troublesome, but the hatred. It is poison, spiritual deadly poison.

 

[DaveBj]

Hmm, Jewish believers being persecuted by non-believing Jews.

Peter, James, and John will tell you that it’s been almost 2000 years, and there’s been no change.

DaveBj

 

[system]

I in no way condone the violence, but given the history of Christian “proselytizing” especially in Europe throughout history, is it any wonder Jews don’t want them in Israel?

That’s the catch 22 in this situation: as far as they are concerned, they are still Jews- just messianic jews.

Of course most of their neighbors now consider them ex-jews

 

[saylo]

I in no way condone the violence, but given the history of Christian “proselytizing” especially in Europe throughout history, is it any wonder Jews don’t want them in Israel?

Isn’t this soley about Christ? The historical episodes merely cloud the profound objective: Redemption, salvation and the knowledge of God on a most personal level through His Son Jesus…

 

[Lev23]

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080621/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_missionaries

Thank you for posting this. I have heard about this story from another source. These Israeli Chrisitans are the true remnant of Israel. They are why I support Zionism, they are why I support Israel. Not only do they live and work in the land of Israel, they reach out to their neighbors about the Messiah Yeshua. And we see, this is no piece of cake for them. We should remember that the Jewish Chrisitian Church in Israel, despite the many hardships they face, especially from the orthodox, continue to preach the Gospel of Christ to all Israel. And we should support them 100%.

Like St.Paul, these Jews today refuse to give up taking the Gospel to the Jew first.

Romans 9:1-5
I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit— I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

Romans10:1-4
Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Romans 15:25-33
Now, however, I am on my way to Jerusalem in the service of the saints there. For Macedonia and Achaia were pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem. They were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews’ spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings. So after I have completed this task and have made sure that they have received this fruit, I will go to Spain and visit you on the way. I know that when I come to you, I will come in the full measure of the blessing of Christ.
I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me. Pray that I may be rescued from the unbelievers in Judea and that my service in Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints there, so that by God’s will I may come to you with joy and together with you be refreshed. The God of peace be with you all. Amen.

 

[Lev23]

Hmm, Jewish believers being persecuted by non-believing Jews.

Peter, James, and John will tell you that it’s been almost 2000 years, and there’s been no change.

DaveBj

Sad, but true.

 

[Lev23]

I mean, if you believe Christ was the messiah, you’re going to want to preach it. But that society does not stand for the proselytizing!

I don’t think that is a accurate assessment of proselytizing in that society.

Preaching to the secular people in Israel is like preaching to secular people anywhere. Many will listen, some will actually really listen and take it to heart. Most never picked up a bible, whether it is the Old or New Testament. The problems start when certain Orthodox Jews show up heckling the crowds and harrassing the Jewish Christians. Usually they belittle the believers and start mouthing off lies. These same type of people got in the way of the true remnant of Israel trying to give the Gospel of Christ to all Israel in the first century.

 

[Sepharad]

I love how they try to minimize things.
From the article:

The were NEW TESTAMENTS. They were bibles. Yes, the bible as we Catholics know it was torched on the streets of Israel.

They really don’t want to hear from the messianic Jews. And it’s a tough thing for them. I mean, if you believe Christ was the messiah, you’re going to want to preach it. But that society does not stand for the proselytizing!

I know a woman who lives in the town where this event took place. She said the missionaries BLANKETED the small town with their Bibles and materials.

What would you do if, say, A Baptist church BLANKETED your very Catholic street with millions of Jack Chick booklets and Protestant Bibles no one wanted?

Would you keep them? I sure wouldn’t!

If the missionaries had any idea this would have happened (as surely they MUST have, since they purposely did it in an ULTRAOrthodox Jewish town, with intent to provoke), why did they do it in the first place?

This is just another example of Jews who were minding their own business, some missionaries show up and impose gazillions of their materials on people who they KNOW do not want them, and then when the imposed-upon people get rid of the stuff, somehow, the people who were minding their own business are to blame?!

They crave attention, missionaries…and this is one way they try to get it.

Remember that what anti-Catholic Protestant missionaries do to Catholic communities, “messianic” missionaries do to Jewish communities!

What I find interesting, personally, is that the methodology Jewish converts use in missionary work has stayed the same throughout the ages. It follows a predictable pattern.

They convert, become overzealous in trying to convert their former brethren (to try to please their new Gentile Christian masters), and go overboard. And when the Jews react, somehow, they find a way to cast all the blame onto their victims, claiming, “Oh! The Jews are persecuting us! We are martyrs for the faith!” Voila…instant preferred status with their new masters, plus all the attention they didn’t get from their former brethren until they did this.

Pablo Christiani did it, Paul of Burgos did it, Tomas de Torquemada (who was of Jewish origin also) did it…and so have many converts since the beginning of Christianity. In many cases it stems not from true religious zeal but from Jewish self-hatred.

 

[system]

I know a woman who lives in the town where this event took place. She said the missionaries BLANKETED the small town with their Bibles and materials.

What would you do if, say, A Baptist church BLANKETED your very Catholic street with millions of Jack Chick booklets and Protestant Bibles no one wanted?

Would you keep them? I sure wouldn’t!

If the missionaries had any idea this would have happened (as surely they MUST have, since they purposely did it in an ULTRAOrthodox Jewish town, with intent to provoke), why did they do it in the first place?

This is just another example of Jews who were minding their own business, some missionaries show up and impose gazillions of their materials on people who they KNOW do not want them, and then when the imposed-upon people get rid of the stuff, somehow, the people who were minding their own business are to blame?!

They crave attention, missionaries…and this is one way they try to get it.

Remember that what anti-Catholic Protestant missionaries do to Catholic communities, “messianic” missionaries do to Jewish communities!

What I find interesting, personally, is that the methodology Jewish converts use in missionary work has stayed the same throughout the ages. It follows a predictable pattern.

They convert, become overzealous in trying to convert their former brethren (to try to please their new Gentile Christian masters), and go overboard. And when the Jews react, somehow, they find a way to cast all the blame onto their victims, claiming, “Oh! The Jews are persecuting us! We are martyrs for the faith!” Voila…instant preferred status with their new masters, plus all the attention they didn’t get from their former brethren until they did this.

Pablo Christiani did it, Paul of Burgos did it, Tomas de Torquemada (who was of Jewish origin also) did it…and so have many converts since the beginning of Christianity. In many cases it stems not from true religious zeal but from Jewish self-hatred.

Thanks for posting more complete information. The “blanketing” of the area was not included in the news articles I read.

 

[Sepharad]

Thanks for posting more complete information. The “blanketing” of the area was not included in the news articles I read.

I didn’t think so; I didn’t see news articles on it until someone posted it here, I only knew of it from what my friend told me.

She said they dumped so much of the stuff on their (small) town that the streets looked like it had snowed in places.

 

[system]

I didn’t think so; I didn’t see news articles on it until someone posted it here, I only knew of it from what my friend told me.

She said they dumped so much of the stuff on their (small) town that the streets looked like it had snowed in places.

Well then, to answer your question, if my catholic street was blanket with Jack Chick tracts, knowing me as I do, yes - burning would be an option!

 

[Sepharad]

Well then, to answer your question, if my catholic street was blanket with Jack Chick tracts, knowing me as I do, yes - burning would be an option!

Personally I’m not too keen on the idea of burning materials to get rid of them, they could have been thrown away. But (and I didn’t even know this until my husband just told me) religious materials considered Jewishly heretical are commanded in Judaism to be disposed of by burning.

Incidentally, the Catholic church also did this kind of thing in the Middle Ages, when they publicly burned Protestant versions of the Bible, because they saw them as being full of errors and written by heretics. They burned them to keep them away from the Catholic faithful, whose Catholic faith might have been harmed by reading them (according to Catholic belief anyway). See this (Catholic, nihil obstat/imprimatur okayed) link for more info:

users.binary.net/polycarp/burning.html

(from the linked site: )>>>One action that Catholic Christians pursued to stop this propaganda was to burn these books. Does this action make the Church anti-Bible? No. If it did, then the Protestants of this period were also anti-Bible. John Calvin, the main Protestant Reformer, in 1522, had as many copies as could be found of the Servetus Bible burned, since Calvin did not approve of it. Later Calvin had Michael Servetus himself burned at the stake for being a Unitarian. [5] In those days it was common practice on both sides to burn unapproved books. Finally it is one matter to destroy the real thing and another to destroy a counterfeit.
In the Middle Ages, the Catholic church also burned Jewish holy writings (I found this segment on Wikipedia):

Medieval burning of Jewish Literature
The burnings of Hebrew books were initiated by Pope Gregory IX. He persuaded French King Louis IX to burn some 12,000 copies of the Talmud in Paris in 1243. He was followed by subsequent Popes. The Church and Christian states viewed the Talmud as a book hateful and insulting toward Christ and Gentiles. The most ferocious haters of Judaism and Jewish books among them were Innocent IV (1243–1254), Clement IV (1256–1268), John XXII (1316–1334), Paul IV (1555–1559), Pius V (1566–1572) and Clement VIII (1592–1605). They almost succeeded in stamping out Jewish books entirely. Yet Jews continued to pen their holy books without cease, and once the printing press was invented, the Church found it impossible to destroy entire printed editions of the Talmud and other sacred books. Johann Gutenberg, the German who invented the printing press around 1450, certainly helped stamp out the effectiveness of further book burnings. The tolerant (for its time) policies of Venice made it a center for the printing of Jewish books (as of books in general), yet the Talmud was publicly burned in 1553 and there was a lesser known burning of Hebrew book in 1568.[19]
Even with all the religious precedent (on both sides), I’m still not comfortable with the concept of burning things…when missionaries stick tracts in my mailbox, I just toss them into the trash.

 

[saylo]

Rejecting Jesus as the Savior of Mankind is a lose/lose situation.

 

[system]

Incidentally, the Catholic church also did this kind of thing in the Middle Ages, when they publicly burned Protestant versions of the Bible, because they saw them as being full of errors and written by heretics.

Well we certainly don’t need a scorecard to see that many religions were unfair and nasty to other religions.

In the above case, I think the protestants certainly made up for that by the slaughter of Catholics in a number of places and times., eg; Cromwell in Ireland. Being an equal-opportunity oppressor, the Church of England banned the practice of both Catholicism and Presbyterianism under their penal laws in Ireland and Scotland. They actual had a cash bounty on Roman Catholic priests, who were hunted. They also did their best to destroy their 2 versions of Gaelic language.

 

[Lev23]

Sepharad and Max37, I guess the Jewish Christians are the example of true fellowship and evangelization we should follow. Everyone can dig up dirt on Catholics and Protestants when it comes to how they treated the Jews. But its the Jewish believers that seem to faithfully, with love and respect of their separated brethren, continue the Gospel of Christ to Israel. These Jewish Christians do not pour out tracts so it looked like it snowed, etc., because THEY LIVE THERE!

 

[grandfather]

I know a woman who lives in the town where this event took place. She said the missionaries BLANKETED the small town with their Bibles and materials.

What would you do if, say, A Baptist church BLANKETED your very Catholic street with millions of Jack Chick booklets and Protestant Bibles no one wanted?

Would you keep them? I sure wouldn’t!

Every year there is a Jehovahs Witness gathering in my town. They are the door to door type evangelists. So they see their visit to a new town as an opportunity to ring some bells, leave their literature and make converts. For a week I get flocks of them at my door. I talk to some of them, take their stuff, but tell them I probably will not read it, and always treat them politely and repsectfully. Similarly I am accosted on the street occassionally and offered a tract. There is no point in getting into a burning frenzy or an argument. That would serve as little a purpose as the guy who hands me the material. I either decline it or take it, say thanks and get rid of it, quietly.

I would not burn a Protestant Bible or hymnal, the Torah, or any Jewish religious symbol, or a Hindu book.

I had a friend who converted from orthodox Judaism. He kept some things around that reminded him of his roots and were sentimental to him. One was a little item that he hung above his door or mantel. It contained a small piece of paper with the name of God written on it. He regarded it as very sacred. I knew nothing about it, never heard of such a thing. He asked me to help him move and I went to his house and we loaded vans and cars and were taking them to storage. This little item fell out of a box onto the back seat floor of the car. He saw it and exploded in anger. I was astonished having no intention of doing anything offensive. I even think it him not me who loaded that box in the car. I did not respond to him, but thought his response was bizarre, pretty crazy, as I do think the public demonstration of fury and Bible burning in Israel is pretty nutty, at best.

What can be said about this is probably best said by Jesus. Forgive them for they know not what they do. An alternative is what was said by the Jews. Let His blood be on us and our children. If they only knew what it was they said those exact words could have been a prayer. May the Holy Blood of Jesus sanctify all Jews and gentiles alike, and their children for all generations to come. Blessed are the peace makers.

 

[Sepharad]

Sepharad and Max37, I guess the Jewish Christians are the example of true fellowship and evangelization we should follow. Everyone can dig up dirt on Catholics and Protestants when it comes to how they treated the Jews. But its the Jewish believers that seem to faithfully, with love and respect of their separated brethren, continue the Gospel of Christ to Israel. These Jewish Christians do not pour out tracts so it looked like it snowed, etc., because THEY LIVE THERE!

Well you know, I have had considerable experience offline with so-called “messianic Jews” (not in Israel but in the USA). They are really nothing more than evangelical Protestants in Jewish “clothing”.

There is a “messianic synagogue” near me that claims to be “Torah observant” yet on more than one occasion, hired construction workers to do work on their building on the Sabbath (the noise of the workmen could be hear loudly in the nearby Jewish synagogue while services were going on.) They even hired workers to work on their building on Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year.

I once attended a few of their services with another local member of the Jewish community…their gift shop was open on the Sabbath, which in Judaism is a big no-no.

As a Jew I don’t care what they do, I just wish they would be honest in their dealings and portrayals. They are Christians, and should call themselves that…and stop portraying themselves as religious Jews to deceive the unwary, both Jewish and Christian alike.

Did you know that many so-called “messianics” will actually deny they are Christian, if asked by Jews? They rationalize it in their minds that they are not lying because they are “Jewish believers”. They will also claim “I do not believe in Jesus”, because they rationalize that they “believe in Yeshua”.

They are VERY deceptive, and not only to unwary Jews. We have a few members of our community who used to be “messianics” and they left largely because they couldn’t stand the deception and rationalization of it anymore.