Methodism and Catholicism

[robwar]

Thank you, thank you all. If memory serves, the 2006 Seoul Report suggests that there is much to be gained by these sorts of things, so I’m glad to play a part in implementing their suggestions.

I’ve been plowing through the official UMC statement on Holy Communion and will have more to say, probably tomorrow, reflecting my impressions of that document. Elements of that have already appeared, but I’ll try and weave together something worth reading.

In the meantime, I appreciate the poster bringing the question of UMC Internet communion to my attention. That’s worth bringing up to my pastor and, if necessary, the district superintendent.

There was/is another thread on CAF that dealt with the differences between Methodist and Roman Catholic view and teaching on the Eucharist. While that has come up on this thread, the original OP question wasn’t concerning communion. But very happy to have you aboard!

 

[rfournier103]

Actually my main issue isn’t really papal infallibility, but just the belief of the infallibility of the Church. The idea that the Catholic Church has all of the answers and truth, when I don’t believe any religion or Church has the complete truth.

Good afternoon, komeeks. As I am sure you know, the Catholic Church traces it’s lineage all the way back to Jesus Christ. The Church was founded by Christ, and is under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. We as Catholics have FAITH that the Holy Spirit will protect us from TEACHING error, TEACHING falsehood, and TEACHING the wrong things.

Some people share that faith, others don’t.

The Catholic Church isn’t like any other church there ever was. It really isn’t like any other instituion (church, or otherwise) at all. We believe that it is what it says that it is, and we take that on FAITH. Faith is really what Christianity is all about, isn’t it?

The Catholic Church has very strict rules for how Catholics are to live their lives and what’s defined as right and wrong.

Which rules might you have a problem with? I can’t think of any “rules” that aren’t grounded somewhere in Scripture. Fornication, homosexuality, abortion/murder are all condemned in Scripture, are they not?

If a church isn’t there to guide us and teach us what God expects from us, why belong to a church at all?

Plus, the whole Co-Redemptrix thing. There’s so many things I’ve come to doubt in the Church, because it seems to be violating Scripture.

There is another poster (ChrisB103 ~ no relation! ) who spoke a little about Mary and “the whole Co-Redemptrix thing”. I’m not a real big “Mary guy”, so I can’t respond as well as some of the other posters about her.

If I may share a personal story… my wife was raised as a hard core Pentecostal. That meant Bible camp, Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura, and all that jazz… She was recieved into the Catholic Church last March, and she loves it here.

She had some really hard questions for me that I could never have answered on my own. What helped her to understand our Faith was a priest at our parish who was absolutely brilliant, and gave her the answers and explanations she wanted. He didn’t “tell her what she wanted to hear”, but he told it like it was; and she decided for herself. Trust me… if she didn’t like what she heard, she never would have joined the Church. I honestly think we never would have married if she didn’t enter the Church because we were too far apart theologically to make it work. We’ve been together for over four years and our life together has never been better than it is TODAY. I owe that priest a debt I can never repay. He even presided over our wedding, and it was an amazing mass.

I tell you this because I really think it would be worth your while if you made an appointment to speak to a priest, and bring your questions to him. I would say 99.9% of us here at CAF are laymen and -women; and haven’t spent YEARS at the seminary studying Catholicism like the parish priest has. When you make the appointment, make sure you mention that you’d like maybe an hour or so of his time to make sure that you can ask the questions you need to, and have the time to get full and complete answers. I know that an intelligent young woman like you would want the best sources possible, and make your own decision with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Since you live in the South, I’m going to assume that the priests down there are pretty sharp apologetically. Bring a list of questions, and hopefully your questions will be answered to your satisfaction.

God bless.

 

[Brophius]

My :twocents::
All Christians, the original Apostles and their successors were all Catholic Christians. Ideally we are all called home to the only Church that Jesus himself established.

I just wanted to address that one point before I hit the hay.
G’night. :yawn:

Actually…

The ‘originals’ were simply followers of Christ. The term catholic in this sense would mean universal. For this conversation, there was only one church at this point. When we all die, not one of us believers will be judged by our denomination, be it Catholic, Methodist, Apostolic or whatever… we will be judged on what we did here on this earth with the time we were given. Until we realize that the vehicle that gets us to our relationship with God is less important that our actual relationship with Him, we are failing…

 

[Brophius]

rfournier103 said

As I am sure you know, the Catholic Church traces it’s lineage all the way back to Jesus Christ. The Church was founded by Christ, and is under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. We as Catholics have FAITH that the Holy Spirit will protect us from TEACHING error, TEACHING falsehood, and TEACHING the wrong things.

I am always confident that the Holy Spirit will work through the brokenness of our sinful nature. It is through a teaching error, a teaching falsehood and through teaching the wrong things that the Holy Spirit fractured the Catholic church not once, but twice. It is easy to look at each of these instances and point fingers at the party that is leaving and say that it is their error and their issue. They will regret it and they are wrong. This is very similar to what we see happening to people that are always in relationships that end poorly. They cannot figure out why it always happens to them. They always believe it must be the other person’s problem because it could never have had anything to do with something they were doing…

We cannot pull the wool over the Holy Spirit’s eyes. Though we all wish we could say that our denominations had all the answers, we are wrong. Catholics are just as prone to making bad judgment calls as any Protestant denomination. It is only through God’s grace and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that we even exist as a Church… One Church… regardless of how many parts there may be…

 

[rfournier103]

rfournier103 said
rfournier103;11506606:

As I am sure you know, the Catholic Church traces it’s lineage all the way back to Jesus Christ. The Church was founded by Christ, and is under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. We as Catholics have FAITH that the Holy Spirit will protect us from TEACHING error, TEACHING falsehood, and TEACHING the wrong things.

I am always confident that the Holy Spirit will work through the brokenness of our sinful nature. It is through a teaching error, a teaching falsehood and through teaching the wrong things that the Holy Spirit fractured the Catholic church not once, but twice.

Was it wrong teaching or corruption?

I presume that you speak of the Great Schism and the Reformation. When there’s a problem, the ONLY option is to FIX IT; NOT bail out on the Church that Jesus Christ founded. If it really WAS a Reformation, nobody would have left.

You talk about teaching error, teaching falsehood, and teaching the wrong things… what were they; might I ask? What Catholic Doctrine caused the Great Schism? What Catholic Doctrine caused the “reformation”?

It is easy to look at each of these instances and point fingers at the party that is leaving and say that it is their error and their issue.

I have said in many posts before… Did the Church need reform? Yes. There was corruption in the hierarchy. But in NO WAY was there a need to reform doctrine. As far as I know, there was none. Maybe there was a change in the way said doctrine was presented, but to say that the Church had fallen into error is a charge that I personally find insulting.

We cannot pull the wool over the Holy Spirit’s eyes. Though we all wish we could say that our denominations had all the answers, we are wrong.

You are sadly mistaken. This one does.

Catholics are just as prone to making bad judgment calls as any Protestant denomination.

Are you talking about “judgement calls” or “theology”? HUGE difference. I would appreciate you clarifying that. The Church has made some whopping big mistakes over the past 2,000 years. Our solid Christian theology is error-free.

It is only through God’s grace and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that we even exist as a Church…

FINALLY!!! Something we agree on!!!

One Church… regardless of how many parts there may be…

Sadly, we are fractured. I cannot agree with you here.

I am curious as to what a pastor of a United Methodist Church is doing here. Networking and faith-building? I look forward to reading your other posts.

Good day.

 

[SoMissCatholic]

You talk about teaching error, teaching falsehood, and teaching the wrong things… what were they; might I ask? What Catholic Doctrine caused the Great Schism?

The filioque?

 

[pablope]

rfournier103 said

I am always confident that the Holy Spirit will work through the brokenness of our sinful nature.

It is through a teaching error, a teaching falsehood and through teaching the wrong things that the Holy Spirit fractured the Catholic church not once, but twice.

Just adding to what rfourner said…there were reformers prior to Luther that reformed the church…and did not cause a split in the church. Please see the life of Catherine of Siena:

Catherine wore herself out trying to heal this terrible breach in Christian unity and to obtain for Urban the obedience due to the legitimate head. Letter after letter was dispatched to the princes and leaders of Europe. To Urban himself she wrote to warn him to control his harsh and arrogant temper. This was the second pope she had counseled, chided, even commanded.(ewtn.com/library/mary/catsiena.htm)

Or Cardinal Contarini:

He advised the pope not to abuse the great jurisdiction placed in his hands; and encouraged his friends among the bishops to take appropriate measures for discipline and good order in their dioceses, setting an example in his own Diocese of Cividale di Belluno, to which he was appointed in October, 1536. (newadvent.org/cathen/04323c.htm)

We cannot pull the wool over the Holy Spirit’s eyes.

But our pride can.
1John 4… Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world……………6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

Though we all wish we could say that our denominations had all the answers, we are wrong.

That is right, there should only be one…but the question is, which one?

Are you saying the HS has failed in its guidance of the Church in that there we cannot find the one truth out of all the competing claims for the truth?

 

[anon53744415]

If you like the liturgical aspects of Methodism you’d probably love the Catholic Church. The liturgy was one of the things that drew me to the Catholic Church. I grew up in the Methodist church but it’s no longer the same church that I remembered from my childhood. It was the liberalism of the clergy at my particular UMC as well as in the denomination in general that motivated me to leave that denomination. It was my study of the Catholic Church, Her history and Her teachings that motivated me to leave Protestantism. Leaving the UMC denomination was easier than moving from Protestantism to Catholicism. My reading and study finally drug me “kicking and screaming” into RCIA which is where I am now in the process of becoming Catholic! Try and find a good RCIA program and see what you think after that.

 

[rfournier103]

If you like the liturgical aspects of Methodism you’d probably love the Catholic Church. The liturgy was one of the things that drew me to the Catholic Church. I grew up in the Methodist church but it’s no longer the same church that I remembered from my childhood. It was the liberalism of the clergy at my particular UMC as well as in the denomination in general that motivated me to leave that denomination. It was my study of the Catholic Church, Her history and Her teachings that motivated me to leave Protestantism. Leaving the UMC denomination was easier than moving from Protestantism to Catholicism. My reading and study finally drug me “kicking and screaming” into RCIA which is where I am now in the process of becoming Catholic! Try and find a good RCIA program and see what you think after that.

Congratulations and welcome aboard!

For those that wish to pray, meditate, and study; Catholicism is by far the most rewarding avenue to Christ! The way HE intended it to be! One. Holy. Catholic. Apostolic.

:grouphug:

 

[andrewstx]

If you like the liturgical aspects of Methodism you’d probably love the Catholic Church. The liturgy was one of the things that drew me to the Catholic Church. I grew up in the Methodist church but it’s no longer the same church that I remembered from my childhood. It was the liberalism of the clergy at my particular UMC as well as in the denomination in general that motivated me to leave that denomination. It was my study of the Catholic Church, Her history and Her teachings that motivated me to leave Protestantism. Leaving the UMC denomination was easier than moving from Protestantism to Catholicism. My reading and study finally drug me “kicking and screaming” into RCIA which is where I am now in the process of becoming Catholic! Try and find a good RCIA program and see what you think after that.

I have been to several United Methodist churches over the years. Other than the Our Father, apostles creed, and the Glory Be they had no noticeable liturgical content. The prayers are made up as the preacher goes along with no congregational (name removed by moderator)ut not even an Amen.

As I have seen it it’s just Evangelical Protestant with a couple of candles.

It may be different in some places, but that’s what is done in New Mexico and Texas.

 

[anon53744415]

I have been to several United Methodist churches over the years. Other than the Our Father, apostles creed, and the Glory Be they had no noticeable liturgical content. The prayers are made up as the preacher goes along with no congregational (name removed by moderator)ut not even an Amen.

As I have seen it it’s just Evangelical Protestant with a couple of candles.

It may be different in some places, but that’s what is done in New Mexico and Texas.

Interesting. I’m in NM and the UMC I used to go to had “borrowed” quite a few bits and pieces from the Catholic liturgy. I noticed this most during my transition period when I was going to both the UMC and Mass each week. One thing the UMC didn’t use was the Glory Be! But while they may have borrowed little bits and pieces I knew I wanted the fullness the Catholic Church offers. I wanted all the bits and pieces!

 

[anon53744415]

Congratulations and welcome aboard!

For those that wish to pray, meditate, and study; Catholicism is by far the most rewarding avenue to Christ! The way HE intended it to be! One. Holy. Catholic. Apostolic.

:grouphug:

Agree.