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fellowChristian
Guest
Zooey-
do you know about the founder of your church?
do you know about the founder of your church?
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F
fellowChristian
Guest
I’m sorry, I mean founders.
From John and Charles Wesley breaking off from the Church of England and it’s founder King Henry VIII who made himself a “Pope” of his own church? King Henry VIII was Catholic as was his wife Catherine who he set aside. Before all of that Protestants never existed. They “protested” against they Body of Christ? Christ Himself. For Christ is One with His Church.
Ephesians5:31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery—**but I am talking about Christ and the church. **
Do you know all of that?
From John and Charles Wesley breaking off from the Church of England and it’s founder King Henry VIII who made himself a “Pope” of his own church? King Henry VIII was Catholic as was his wife Catherine who he set aside. Before all of that Protestants never existed. They “protested” against they Body of Christ? Christ Himself. For Christ is One with His Church.
Ephesians5:31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery—**but I am talking about Christ and the church. **
Do you know all of that?
F
fellowChristian
Guest
How Old Is Your Church?
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.
If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.
If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.
If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.
If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.
If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.
If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.
If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.
If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.
If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.
If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.
If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as 'Church of the Nazarene," “Pentecostal Gospel.” “Holiness Church,” “Pilgrim Holiness Church,” “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.
If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.
If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.
If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.
If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.
If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.
If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.
If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.
If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.
If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.
If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.
If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.
If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as 'Church of the Nazarene," “Pentecostal Gospel.” “Holiness Church,” “Pilgrim Holiness Church,” “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.
If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
Z
Zooey
Guest
The Wesleys did NOT break away from the Church of England. Indeed, they are honored by being included in the Anglican calendar as saints.
The sad separation between Methodism & the Anglicans came later in history…
The sad separation between Methodism & the Anglicans came later in history…
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mozart-250
Guest
Darn it! I wish I could find again on the internet John Wesley’s “Letter to a Roman Catholic”. I thought I had a bookmark with all of Wesley’s writings, but apparantly not. And I have just given up after having googling “john wesley letter roman catholic”.
Needless to say, that letter illustrates a wonderful ecumenical spirit even from the founder of Methodism. Particularly considering the time frame the letter was written in.
Note: if we were to move, we would probably migrate from our current AG to some form of Methodist of my youth. If we stay up north we would probably favour Free Methodist or Wesleyan, but if we were to move south we would be perfectly happy with United Methodist. We haven’t eliminated other possibilities (even Catholic)…but for us Methodist would represent “coming home”.
Needless to say, that letter illustrates a wonderful ecumenical spirit even from the founder of Methodism. Particularly considering the time frame the letter was written in.
Note: if we were to move, we would probably migrate from our current AG to some form of Methodist of my youth. If we stay up north we would probably favour Free Methodist or Wesleyan, but if we were to move south we would be perfectly happy with United Methodist. We haven’t eliminated other possibilities (even Catholic)…but for us Methodist would represent “coming home”.
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rr1213
Guest
Almost everything in this statement, other than the Scriptural citation, is erroneous. John and Charles Wesley died Anglicans in good standing in the Church of England. Henry VIII did, indeed, break from the Catholic Church but did not make himself “Pope”. Half of Europe was laready Protestant when Henry VIII broke from the Catholic Church so, certainly, it is not true that “before all of that Protestants never existed.” Finally, did YOU know that after Henry VIII and Edward that the English Church was reconciled witht the Catholic Church under Mary? (Otherwise know as “Bloody Mary” for her persecution of Protestants). The Anglican Church split after Mary under the reign of Elizabeth 1.I’m sorry, I mean founders.
From John and Charles Wesley breaking off from the Church of England and it’s founder King Henry VIII who made himself a “Pope” of his own church? King Henry VIII was Catholic as was his wife Catherine who he set aside. Before all of that Protestants never existed. They “protested” against they Body of Christ? Christ Himself. For Christ is One with His Church.
Ephesians5:31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery—**but I am talking about Christ and the church. **
Do you know all of that?
C
Cat
Guest
Zooey, I agree that many Methodists in the pews are wonderful Christians. My parents-in-law have a lot of friends who are salt of the earth Christians.
But the United Methodist Church has serious doctrinal problems, and I frankly think that all of you “good Christians” are sharing your pews with some very dangerous leadership who are determined to take the Methodist Church away from Christ and straight to hell.
My question is, Who will win, you (the good Christians) or the evil leadership that has taken over your denomination and is holding it captive?
I would say that you and all the good Christians in the denomination need to take back your denomination from the evil ones. Don’t let a few thousand brave souls in the Confessing Movement do all the work and fight the battle while you enjoy covered dish dinners with your friends in the church fellowship hall.
Here is a very depressing link from the National Right To Life Office about where the various churches stand on pro-life issues. The UMC stand is not anything to brag about:
pregnantpause.org/people/wherchur.htm
Here is a link to the Confessing Movement Webpage that discusses the ways that the UMC has strayed from Methodist traditionalist teaching:
confessingumc.org/statement1.htm
Do you realize that in the UMC, your bishop could assign a openly practicing lesbian to be your pastor, and you would be expected to celebrate her choices? I keep wondering what my darling parents in law will do when this happens.
Forgive me if I sound harsh toward the Methodists. My grandmother was a staunch member of the United Methodist Church for most of her senior years, and she is crying out from heaven to see this church made right and pure again.
Our Catholic church is right across the street from a United Methodist Church. Would you believe that they have “billboard wars” with us? (I’m talking about those billboards that sit outside of churches that are changed from week to week, posting times of services, special events, pageants, little pithy "sayings, etc.) Our Church will post a pro-life message on the billboard, and the UMC church across the street will post a pro-choice message. When we put the thousands of white crosses out on the lawn as a memorial to all the babies who have died in the abortion clinice, the UMC church will post a message about keeping choice available for women.
I can’t see how ANY Christian could walk into such a foul place that actually advocates publically the killing of the unborn and makes fun of another church for promoting life.
But the United Methodist Church has serious doctrinal problems, and I frankly think that all of you “good Christians” are sharing your pews with some very dangerous leadership who are determined to take the Methodist Church away from Christ and straight to hell.
My question is, Who will win, you (the good Christians) or the evil leadership that has taken over your denomination and is holding it captive?
I would say that you and all the good Christians in the denomination need to take back your denomination from the evil ones. Don’t let a few thousand brave souls in the Confessing Movement do all the work and fight the battle while you enjoy covered dish dinners with your friends in the church fellowship hall.
Here is a very depressing link from the National Right To Life Office about where the various churches stand on pro-life issues. The UMC stand is not anything to brag about:
pregnantpause.org/people/wherchur.htm
Here is a link to the Confessing Movement Webpage that discusses the ways that the UMC has strayed from Methodist traditionalist teaching:
confessingumc.org/statement1.htm
Do you realize that in the UMC, your bishop could assign a openly practicing lesbian to be your pastor, and you would be expected to celebrate her choices? I keep wondering what my darling parents in law will do when this happens.
Forgive me if I sound harsh toward the Methodists. My grandmother was a staunch member of the United Methodist Church for most of her senior years, and she is crying out from heaven to see this church made right and pure again.
Our Catholic church is right across the street from a United Methodist Church. Would you believe that they have “billboard wars” with us? (I’m talking about those billboards that sit outside of churches that are changed from week to week, posting times of services, special events, pageants, little pithy "sayings, etc.) Our Church will post a pro-life message on the billboard, and the UMC church across the street will post a pro-choice message. When we put the thousands of white crosses out on the lawn as a memorial to all the babies who have died in the abortion clinice, the UMC church will post a message about keeping choice available for women.
I can’t see how ANY Christian could walk into such a foul place that actually advocates publically the killing of the unborn and makes fun of another church for promoting life.
L
lak611
Guest
Are there no Methodist churches where you live?
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mozart-250
Guest
Long story actually.Are there no Methodist churches where you live?
For the last twenty years or so after the wife and I became Christians, we have been involved in Charismatic/Pentecostal churches. No deep reason other than the church that was responsible for both of our conversions was Charismatic/Pentecostal.
In the last few years we both have become somewhat uncomfortable with some aspects of this branch of Christianity (for different reasons). Not enough to change churches, just that some things did not add up.
One thing that I decided to was to check out other branches of Christianity from their own perspective (not what I may have been taught about them). Having been born Methodist, I did quite a bit of reading on John Wesley and have concluded that my own theological inclination was classic Wesleyan (hence my sig…I decided that “Assembly of God” might be somewhat misleading).
Not that we are that dissatisfied to change churches (both the wife and I tend to be loyal to a fault to where we are at and do not change churches at a whim). But if we were ever to move (or something unexpected happen here) I think our next church would not be Pentecostal/Charismatic.
BTW that is why I am here. I decided to check out the denomination that claims it all started with along with checking out others. Unfortunately arguing Christianity over the internet has become a bad habit of mine I can not break.
A
Allweather
Guest
I think its a good habit. Or at least, there are lots of worse habits.
L
lak611
Guest
I have The Works of John Wesley. I found the letter you are referring to. I will give an excerpt here, as I have books, not an online source.
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fellowChristian
Guest
Q:John and Charles were both from the Church of England?
A: yes
Q: Did they stay with the Church of England?
A: No, they started the Methodist movement.
Q: So they “moved” from one church and founded another one?
A:yes. Hence they,John and Charles Wesley, “broke” from the “movement” of the Church of England and started their own "movement’ away from the Church of England.
If John and Charles are part of the Anglican Church/Church of England why are they called Methodist and not Anglicans?
They were Anglican’s who started their own church and named it The Methodist Church.
Brothers who didn’t even agree on each others doctrine.
How can you say they didn’t “break” from the Anglican church?
They didn’t stay with it.
A: yes
Q: Did they stay with the Church of England?
A: No, they started the Methodist movement.
Q: So they “moved” from one church and founded another one?
A:yes. Hence they,John and Charles Wesley, “broke” from the “movement” of the Church of England and started their own "movement’ away from the Church of England.
If John and Charles are part of the Anglican Church/Church of England why are they called Methodist and not Anglicans?
They were Anglican’s who started their own church and named it The Methodist Church.
Brothers who didn’t even agree on each others doctrine.
How can you say they didn’t “break” from the Anglican church?
They didn’t stay with it.
F
fellowChristian
Guest
One more question.
Jesus started His church the same year He was crucified. On Pentecost Sunday in the Book of Acts 2:41 it says that 3000 people were added that day.
Q: Added to what?
A: The church Jesus built,created,established,formed.
Matt:16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter,and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
It is the only Christian church that existed from that time until now. Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit to guide His Church. And that He would be with His church for all generations.
It couldn’t be any church founded by any man after 1517.
It was founded by Jesus in 33ad.
Not by John and Charles Wesley in 1744 in England.
Jesus had already left St.Peter in charge and Assended into heaven.
The Wesley Brothers weren’t even born yet?!
You can trace each Protestant church back to the Catholic Church. I know I’ve done it.
Guess what church I traced back to Jesus?
Jesus started His church the same year He was crucified. On Pentecost Sunday in the Book of Acts 2:41 it says that 3000 people were added that day.
Q: Added to what?
A: The church Jesus built,created,established,formed.
Matt:16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter,and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
It is the only Christian church that existed from that time until now. Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit to guide His Church. And that He would be with His church for all generations.
It couldn’t be any church founded by any man after 1517.
It was founded by Jesus in 33ad.
Not by John and Charles Wesley in 1744 in England.
Jesus had already left St.Peter in charge and Assended into heaven.
The Wesley Brothers weren’t even born yet?!
You can trace each Protestant church back to the Catholic Church. I know I’ve done it.
Guess what church I traced back to Jesus?
S
Sixtus
Guest
Welcome to the club. But as has already been said, it is not a bad habit. I see different denom’s views of God as rather like looking at a mountain. Wherever you stand you get a slightly different picture. On the north wall, lots of pine trees. At the top, lots of snow. On the south side near the base, lush green exotic plants.
Now it is easy to see that pine trees and snow appear incompatible with lushious exotic vetegation but all are actually valid and it is still the same mountain.
We are just sharing our different views, that is all. We all have a different picture and different perspectives on God, even within the same traditions.
L
lak611
Guest
Q:John and Charles were both from the Church of England?
A: yes
Q: Did they stay with the Church of England?
A: No, they started the Methodist movement.
Q: So they “moved” from one church and founded another one?
A:yes. Hence they,John and Charles Wesley, “broke” from the “movement” of the Church of England and started their own "movement’ away from the Church of England.
If John and Charles are part of the Anglican Church/Church of England why are they called Methodist and not Anglicans?
They were Anglican’s who started their own church and named it The Methodist Church.
Brothers who didn’t even agree on each others doctrine.
How can you say they didn’t “break” from the Anglican church?
They didn’t stay with it.
from the official website of the Methodist Church of Great Britain methodist.org.uk/index.cfm?fuseaction=opentogod.content&cmid=1618John Wesley died in 1791, so the split from the Anglican Church did not happen until after Wesley’s death.
O
O.S.Luke
Guest
Incorrect.Both died as Anglican priests.
You making this up?
Proof?They were Anglican’s who started their own church and named it The Methodist Church.
Brothers who didn’t even agree on each others doctrine.
How can you say they didn’t “break” from the Anglican church?
They didn’t stay with it.
R
rr1213
Guest
You’ve now repeatedly been told by Anglicans, Methodists and others that the Wesleys did not leave the Church of England. You need to listen to the facts and not make stuff up.Q:John and Charles were both from the Church of England?
A: yes
Q: Did they stay with the Church of England?
A: No, they started the Methodist movement.
Q: So they “moved” from one church and founded another one?
A:yes. Hence they,John and Charles Wesley, “broke” from the “movement” of the Church of England and started their own "movement’ away from the Church of England.
If John and Charles are part of the Anglican Church/Church of England why are they called Methodist and not Anglicans?
They were Anglican’s who started their own church and named it The Methodist Church.
Brothers who didn’t even agree on each others doctrine.
How can you say they didn’t “break” from the Anglican church?
They didn’t stay with it.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
HiWe are just sharing our different views, that is all. We all have a different picture and different perspectives on God, even within the same traditions.
It is good to make comparative study of denomination/faith/religions with the comparison of attributes of GodAllahYHWH, if the attributes of God are the same then in fact the denominations are the same but for some petty localized hurdles which could be removed through dialogue.
In this method I am with you.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
Z
Zooey
Guest
They aren’t called Methodists; in fact, **as **I pointed out earlier, they are actually:thumbsup: saints of the Anglican Church!! (Here we go!Feast day: March 3: John & Charles Wesley, Priests source: Episcopal Book of Common Prayer, 1979 edition.).
Hardly an honor the Anglican Communion would be handing out to someone to “started their own church”.You know, that thing you keep quoting…I just remembered where I read it before: It was printed in
“Dear Abby”…Maybe not the 
best source for information???
M
Mommyof02green
Guest
I agree that Dear Abby is not the best source for information.They aren’t called Methodists; in fact, **as **I pointed out earlier, they are actually:thumbsup: saints of the Anglican Church!! (Here we go!Feast day: March 3: John & Charles Wesley, Priests [source: Episcopal Book of Common Prayer, 1979 edition.).
You know, that thing you keep quoting…I just remembered where I read it before: It was printed in
However, I’ve seen “Methodist” sites that more and less say they got their start from John and Charles Wesley.
karchives.umc.org/interior.asp?mid=522
[/quote]
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