Methodist Pastor found guilty of gay marriage

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rinnie

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Once again it is found a Methodist Pastor united his Son in marriage with another Man.

Now for quite while this has been happening all over. It is again going to be decided.

I asked this question before and here it comes again.

All Methodist Pastors claim to be doing the will of God. The Church is based on a human founder.

How can any human Preacher have authority over another human Preacher. Is it the court who is to play God, Another Human? Who did the authority come from and how are we to know its is from God.

Because they both claim they have authority to define scripture right?
 
With all due respect and while I don’t disagree for the most part, this is a bad place for this, rinnie. No need to incite others. All discussions here should be more charitable. All the best.
 
rinnie said:
Once again it is found a Methodist Pastor united his Son in marriage with another Man.

Now for quite while this has been happening all over. It is again going to be decided.

I asked this question before and here it comes again.

All Methodist Pastors claim to be doing the will of God. The Church is based on a human founder.

How can any human Preacher have authority over another human Preacher. Is it the court who is to play God, Another Human? Who did the authority come from and how are we to know its is from God.

Because they both claim they have authority to define scripture right?
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Rinnie–This took place close to where I live, and I’ve been following the case through a long string of local news stories. With all due respect, your post is so out of touch with the facts of the case that I don’t even know where to begin to correct it.:doh2: :confused:
 
dronald said:
What are you talking about? Your Church would have acted in a similar manner if a Priest tried this.

Honestly, you need to do a better job at creating threads.
thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/11/20/2972311/verdict-methodist-pastor-30-days-renounce-gay-children-defrocked/
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What’s up with the “…renounce gay children…” title in the link, I wonder. That’s a stupidly misleading choice of words. He is not being asked to renounce his son. Sensationalism aside, for performing a same-sex marriage ceremony for his son, he was tried for breaking the Methodist church law which he agreed to when he became a Methodist pastor.
 
Boy I need a facepalm emoticon right about now. The “doh” one doesn’t quite cut it, and the head-banging one is too much.
 
Recently the pro-gay marriage people in the UMC are trying a new tactic, saying that even if the current policy against gay marriage stays in place it is up to the bishops’ discretion whether these kinds of church trials take place. It is their assertion that these church trials are unnecessary and harmful to unity, and that therefore pastors who perform these ceremonies in violation of church discipline should not be penalized.
 
I guess that’s what happens when you don’t have a strong magisterium and an official head. Methodist, like most Protestant denominations generally have a collegial approach when deciding about doctrinal issues. This issue will eventually come down to a vote. This is what happened in the Church of England, I think they’re called episcopal in the US and Anglican in th UK. There are some who are fighting an extended battle against accepting hpmosexuals in full communion, but I’ve visited England several times and homosexual clergy and blessings of gay unions is very main stream there. Wikipedia actually has a good explanation of the process.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Anglicanism
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Recently the pro-gay marriage people in the UMC are trying a new tactic, saying that even if the current policy against gay marriage stays in place it is up to the bishops’ discretion whether these kinds of church trials take place. It is their assertion that these church trials are unnecessary and harmful to unity, and that therefore pastors who perform these ceremonies in violation of church discipline should not be penalized.
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Of course…tossed to and fro in the wind with any doctrine and the Church splits again in the UMC, pro gay marriage or not pro gay marriage for no one recognized a final authority outside the Bible

Where in the Bible they construe gay marriage is acceptable is beyond me if they are a Sola Scriptura Church.🤷
 
AbideWithMe said:
Rinnie–This took place close to where I live, and I’ve been following the case through a long string of local news stories. With all due respect, your post is so out of touch with the facts of the case that I don’t even know where to begin to correct it.:doh2: :confused:
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Really! 😃 Then you live really really close to me. I am sorry if I am out of touch, but truly I haven’t really heard much more yet then what I stated. ITs a pretty recent news.

According to the Wash. Post he claims he has no intention of changing his mind, refuses to repent, and will perform gay marriages if asked.

But it is your right to correct what is being said. If this is not true he should be able to defend himself. But its not looking real good on what I am hearing.😊
 
MaryT777 said:
Of course…tossed to and fro in the wind with any doctrine and the Church splits again in the UMC, pro gay marriage or not pro gay marriage for no one recognized a final authority outside the Bible

Where in the Bible they construe gay marriage is acceptable is beyond me if they are a Sola Scriptura Church.🤷
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🤷 You got me. Thats what I am trying to figure out. And dronald is very very unhappy with me because of it.😦
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Recently the pro-gay marriage people in the UMC are trying a new tactic, saying that even if the current policy against gay marriage stays in place it is up to the bishops’ discretion whether these kinds of church trials take place. It is their assertion that these church trials are unnecessary and harmful to unity, and that therefore pastors who perform these ceremonies in violation of church discipline should not be penalized.
Click to expand...
:eek:
 
rinnie said:
All Methodist Pastors claim to be doing the will of God. The Church is based on a human founder.

How can any human Preacher have authority over another human Preacher. Is it the court who is to play God, Another Human? Who did the authority come from and how are we to know its is from God.

Because they both claim they have authority to define scripture right?
Click to expand...
A human preacher can have authority over another preacher because in being ordained a minister in the United Methodist Church, ministers have committed themselves to following the rules of the UMC, which are found in the Book of Discipline.

At this point, Scripture has nothing to do with it. If the minister wants to define Scripture anyway he likes, he can do so outside of the UMC. However, if he wants to remain a minister of the UMC, he has to submit to the Discipline of the UMC.

It’s not hard to understand. The UMC has standards, and it has courts to try cases where those standards have been breached.
 
ltwin said:
A human preacher can have authority over another preacher because in being ordained a minister in the United Methodist Church, ministers have committed themselves to following the rules of the UMC, which are found in the Book of Discipline.

At this point, Scripture has nothing to do with it. If the minister wants to define Scripture anyway he likes, he can do so outside of the UMC. However, if he wants to remain a minister of the UMC, he has to submit to the Discipline of the UMC.

It’s not hard to understand. The UMC has standards, and it has courts to try cases where those standards have been breached.
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I understand that. But who was authority from to write the Book of Discipline, and how can you be sure this is the teaching of Christ?

Who has authority to rule human thinking over human thinking.

If I was an outsider what guarantee do I have the Book of Discipline is the true word of God and not the preachers version?

And what happens to the people he already married? Is it valid? :confused:

No disrespect just trying to understand.
 
MaryT777 said:
Of course…tossed to and fro in the wind with any doctrine and the Church splits again in the UMC, pro gay marriage or not pro gay marriage for no one recognized a final authority outside the Bible

Where in the Bible they construe gay marriage is acceptable is beyond me if they are a Sola Scriptura Church.🤷
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They can’t, because it is not in the Bible. Therefore, they have to resort to methods of “higher criticism” of the Bible, such as the historical critical method, which allows them to claim that the Bible isn’t proclaiming a universal truth, but rather is simply a reflection of the acceptable social norms of ancient Jewish/Greek society.
 
rinnie said:
I understand that. But who was authority from to write the Book of Discipline, and how can you be sure this is the teaching of Christ?

Who has authority to rule human thinking over human thinking.

If I was an outsider what guarantee do I have the Book of Discipline is the true word of God and not the preachers version?

And what happens to the people he already married? Is it valid? :confused:

No disrespect just trying to understand.
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Rinnie, if you’re truly interested in how the Methodist church arrives at their doctrine and teachings, they have a very good site which explains this.

umc.org/site/c.lwL4KnN1LtH/b.1707359/
 
MaryT777 said:
Of course…tossed to and fro in the wind with any doctrine and the Church splits again in the UMC, pro gay marriage or not pro gay marriage for no one recognized a final authority outside the Bible

Where in the Bible they construe gay marriage is acceptable is beyond me if they are a Sola Scriptura Church.🤷
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Is there an official document that says they are? I always thought that they weren’t, and I don’t mean this as a harsh remark, I just never thought the Methodist church thought of themselves as believing sola scriptura.
 
ltwin said:
A human preacher can have authority over another preacher because in being ordained a minister in the United Methodist Church, ministers have committed themselves to following the rules of the UMC, which are found in the Book of Discipline.

At this point, Scripture has nothing to do with it. If the minister wants to define Scripture anyway he likes, he can do so outside of the UMC. However, if he wants to remain a minister of the UMC, he has to submit to the Discipline of the UMC.

It’s not hard to understand. The UMC has standards, and it has courts to try cases where those standards have been breached.
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Right. Rinnie, this is what the case is about. Frank Schaefer went against a rule which he had at least implicitly promised to abide by. The UMC upheld the rule in the trial that UMC ministers may not perform same sex marriages.

If I were a Catholic, I’d be glad that the UMC has stood their ground on this and I’d be praying for the UMC as well as the parties involved for strength, wisdom, healing, and God’s guidance. I would not be using the story to try to undermine another church.
Origen52 said:
Rinnie, if you’re truly interested in how the Methodist church arrives at their doctrine and teachings, they have a very good site which explains this.

umc.org/site/c.lwL4KnN1LtH/b.1707359/
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That’s a good suggestion for you, Rinnie.
rinnie said:
Really! 😃 Then you live really really close to me. I am sorry if I am out of touch, but truly I haven’t really heard much more yet then what I stated. ITs a pretty recent news.

According to the Wash. Post he claims he has no intention of changing his mind, refuses to repent, and will perform gay marriages if asked.

But it is your right to correct what is being said. If this is not true he should be able to defend himself. But its not looking real good on what I am hearing.😊
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Hi 👋 I’m in Berks County. For some reason I was guessing you were in western PA, not the eastern end. Looks like we’ll be getting s#%w next week.😦
 
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