Methodist Pastor found guilty of gay marriage

[AbideWithMe]

Of course…tossed to and fro in the wind with any doctrine and the Church splits again in the UMC, pro gay marriage or not pro gay marriage for no one recognized a final authority outside the Bible

Where in the Bible they construe gay marriage is acceptable is beyond me if they are a Sola Scriptura Church.

When has the UMC split over this?

 

[MaryT777]

Is there an official document that says they are? I always thought that they weren’t, and I don’t mean this as a harsh remark, I just never thought the Methodist church thought of themselves as believing sola scriptura.

If they are not a Bible alone Church then who makes decisions and how is that person
then determined to be the decision maker?
Voting?
Mary.

 

[rinnie]

Right. Rinnie, this is what the case is about. Frank Schaefer went against a rule which he had at least implicitly promised to abide by. The UMC upheld the rule in the trial that UMC ministers may not perform same sex marriages.

If I were a Catholic, I’d be glad that the UMC has stood their ground on this and I’d be praying for the UMC as well as the parties involved for strength, wisdom, healing, and God’s guidance. I would not be using the story to try to undermine another church.

That’s a good suggestion for you, Rinnie.

Hi I’m in Berks County. For some reason I was guessing you were in western PA, not the eastern end. Looks like we’ll be getting s#%w next week.

Washington County And Monday is my Birthday and I am supposed to go away for the night with my husband. Watch it snow like crazy and I won’t get to go!

You know how 7 springs gets pounded!

 

[AbideWithMe]

Washington County And Monday is my Birthday and I am supposed to go away for the night with my husband. Watch it snow like crazy and I won’t get to go!

You know how 7 springs gets pounded!

Happy birthday a bit early! Here’s some cake and birthday candles to keep the s#*w at bay with their heat.

 

[ltwin]

Is there an official document that says they are? I always thought that they weren’t, and I don’t mean this as a harsh remark, I just never thought the Methodist church thought of themselves as believing sola scriptura.

If they are not a Bible alone Church then who makes decisions and how is that person
then determined to be the decision maker?
Voting?
Mary.

They do believe in Sola Scriptura. The Articles of Religion state:

Article V—Of the Sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures for Salvation
The Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation; so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an article of faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation.​

More specifically, this is understood through what is called the Wesleyan Quadrilateral:

The phrase which has relatively recently come into use to describe the principal factors that John Wesley believed illuminate the core of the Christian faith for the believer. Wesley did not formulate the succinct statement now commonly referred to as the Wesley Quadrilateral. Building on the Anglican theological tradition, Wesley added a fourth emphasis, experience. The resulting four components or “sides” of the quadrilateral are (1) Scripture, (2) tradition, (3) reason, and (4) experience. For United Methodists, Scripture is considered the primary source and standard for Christian doctrine. Tradition is experience and the witness of development and growth of the faith through the past centuries and in many nations and cultures. Experience is the individual’s understanding and appropriating of the faith in the light of his or her own life. Through reason the individual Christian brings to bear on the Christian faith discerning and cogent thought. These four elements taken together bring the individual Christian to a mature and fulfilling understanding of the Christian faith and the required response of worship and service.​

 

[Espero]

If they are not a Bible alone Church then who makes decisions and how is that person
then determined to be the decision maker?
Voting?
Mary.

It seems the document was found above me

 

[Holly3278]

Well, I sincerely hope that this Methodist preacher repents of his sin of performing a “gay marriage”. He may not think it is a sin but it most definitely is one.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

He’ll probably get a job at a liberal church anyway if the world is unlucky.

 

[MaryT777]

Rinnie, if you’re truly interested in how the Methodist church arrives at their doctrine and teachings, they have a very good site which explains this.

[The United Methodist Church .1707359/](http://www.umc.org/site/c.both .1707359/)

Thanks for the link to that site but it seemed vague on moral issues such as homosexuality and homosexual marriage and seemed to focus on how to interpret the Scriptures. I also saw no real discussion on what to do if two Methodists disagree on
such issues who then was the final authority on doctrine; that leads me to believe perhaps both “camps” on the homosexuality issue either pro acceptance/marriage or non acceptance as Biblical according to God as the union is one woman and one man ,both exist in harmony within the Methodist Church?
But then there are the issues noted on this thread

 

[ltwin]

Thanks for the link to that site but it seemed vague on moral issues such as homosexuality and homosexual marriage and seemed to focus on how to interpret the Scriptures. I also saw no real discussion on what to do if two Methodists disagree on
such issues who then was the final authority on doctrine; that leads me to believe perhaps both “camps” on the homosexuality issue either pro acceptance/marriage or non acceptance as Biblical according to God as the union is one woman and one man ,both exist in harmony within the Methodist Church?
But then there are the issues noted on this thread

The two groups don’t exist in “harmony.” The fact is that the UMC, unlike many Protestant denominations in the USA is an actual international organization. The American UMC tends to be morally laxed compared to the African UMC, which still holds to biblical moral standards.

Within the US, there are regional differences. The conferences in the Northeast and West Coast (especially the latter) are extremely progressive theologically and socially. This is where most of the push for the homosexual agenda in the UMC is coming from. Liberal activists have tried repeatedly to change the Book of Discipline’s provisions on homosexuality from one that is biblical to one that is in accord with the prevailing secular cultural values.

The liberal Americans have even attempted to “segregate” the foreign (read African) UMC jurisdictions so that they can push through their liberal policies through the American UMC.

At present, the debate is not rooted in the fact that the UMC lacks a clear official position on homsexuality. It does and can be found in the Book of Discipline:

Regarding the ministry of the ordained
¶ 304.3
While persons set apart by the Church for ordained ministry are subject to all the frailties of the human condition and the pressures of society, they are required to maintain the highest standards of holy living in the world. The practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching. Therefore self-avowed practicing homosexuals1 are not to be certified as candidates, ordained as ministers, or appointed to serve in The United Methodist Church.2

1. “Self-avowed practicing homosexual” is understood to mean that a person openly acknowledges to a bishop, district superintendent, district committee of ordained ministry, board of ordained ministry, or clergy session that the person is a practicing homosexual. See Judicial Council Decisions 702, 708, 722, 725, 764, 844, 984, 1020
2. See Judicial Council Decisions 984, 985, 1027, 1028

¶ 341.6
Ceremonies that celebrate homosexual unions shall not be conducted by our ministers and shall not be conducted in our churches.

The problem is that currently, a disproportionate amount of bishops and leaders are drawn from the liberal UMC regions (West Coast and the Northeast). Having failed to change the Book of Discipline in respect to homosexuality, there is now an effort to just ignore as far as possible the denomination’s official stance.

The American Spectator actually has a great article that can fill in much of the background on this: “United Methodists Transition From Liberal to Global: The ongoing empowerment of millions of African United Methodists.”

 

[MaryT777]

Itwin, thanks for the information. I appreciate it
Always good to read your informative posts.
Mary,

 

[4Squarebaby]

AbideWithMe:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaryT777

Of course…tossed to and fro in the wind with any doctrine and the Church splits again in the UMC, pro gay marriage or not pro gay marriage for no one recognized a final authority outside the Bible

Where in the Bible they construe gay marriage is acceptable is beyond me if they are a Sola Scriptura Church.

When has the UMC split over this?

We have been watching the progress over the past 30 years just as the Anglican Communion and other mainline churches have been splitting with liberal/progressive Northeast and West coast Americans, along with a few surviving Europeans, on one side with the emerging church, most notabaly African on the other side.

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[rinnie]

We have been watching the progress over the past 30 years just as the Anglican Communion and other mainline churches have been splitting with liberal/progressive Northeast and West coast Americans, along with a few surviving Europeans, on one side with the emerging church, most notabaly African on the other side.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

It is said that in be beginning there was one true Church, Then you could say all hell broke lose. Is is also said that if your Church is made on Rock it will survive but if it is made on sand it will mot survive.

Christ said to Peter on this ROCK I will build my Church. Just a thought, it seems that as bad as things look at times for the RCC it is still here. It has survived over 2000 years.

I believe the truth of Christ will circle around tlo will it began. On this Rock the RCC. Just my thinking.

Could this be the beginning of the result?

 

[Peter_J]

What are you talking about? Your Church would have acted in a similar manner if a Priest tried this.

Honestly, you need to do a better job at creating threads.
thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/11/20/2972311/verdict-methodist-pastor-30-days-renounce-gay-children-defrocked/

I would say protestant posters generally like her method of creating threads, judging by the number of responses that she typically gets from you guys.