Methodists look to change church's LGBT policies

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A group of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) delegates to the United Methodist General Conference made clear Friday evening that they will not allow the denomination’s governing body to move forward if it becomes apparent that increased clergy accountability measures are poised to pass.
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Panelists were also clear about those who opposed their proposals. While acknowledging that some in the UMC held traditionalist views that they were working through, “I think there are a bunch of evil folks in the church who are into the pain thing,” assessed Dr. Randall Miller.
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“I wouldn’t spend too much time worrying about them leaving,” Miller added. The former Reconciling Ministries Network (RMN) executive advocates forming a commission that will “charge a high price” for those traditionalists who may seek to leave the denomination. “You’re not going to leave us with all the bills.”

“Some friends genuinely grieve that we cannot all be together, I’m no longer one of them,” Miller announced. “There is no evidence that the WCA [traditionalist group] is leaving. God, let us savor the fact that we are in control of one teeny tiny thing: the trust clause.”

“That’s the key. We have to be solidly behind stopping any sort of gracious exit, because that’s the only reason some of those folks haven’t left,” asserted Ilho. “Let there be no exit plan beyond what is currently in the discipline, or, make it as difficult as possible so that they don’t leave and leave their debts behind.”
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For the heterodox wing, giving them the option to leave with property without further skirmishes is wrong but finding ways to keep the orthodox wing hostage over property and in essence stripping entire congregations of property they took care of for years is moral.

They get angry because they failed in reshaping the governing structure that would exclude thriving African churches to benefit their shrinking but loud and hostile heterodox wing.

I knew the gulf between how the secular press portrayed so-called progressives in the Mainline bodies and reality was quite wide and here’s another reminder.
 
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It appears that the United Methodists dodged a bullet, for now.

United Methodist committee rejects One Church Plan, which would allow LGBT clergy

The vote was described as a “surprise”, which, coming from the media, is a positive reality.
Meantime, Rudolph Merab, a delegate from the Liberia Annual Conference, spoke against the One Church Plan.

“We keep talking about trying to be united, but, in fact, we continue to talk about being divided,” Merab said. “It is better to be divided by truth than to be united in error.”
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Caveat:
The One Church Plan could still come back, but as a minority report. An amended version of the Traditional Plan, which delegates did not fully take up, also could come before the body Feb. 26.
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Maximilian75 said:
My mother was raised Methodist (converted to Catholicism after meeting my dad) and I have 2 uncles who still are.

Essentially, they’re likely gonna do what the Lutherans did and split into camps based upon their thoughts on homosexuality.
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The ELCA to be precise. Those who left formed the NALC.

The crack is too large. If we’re realistic, it’s not a matter of if but when and how. A “gracious exit” without all the lawsuits or protracted legal battles. I can’t comprehend how anyone thinks the “gracious exit” proposal is a bad thing, it’s literally the best way of handling the inevitable.

There is literally no unity at this point and it goes much deeper than and beyond this issue. Pretending otherwise is doing no one any favours (and I’m not talking about holding another faction hostage). It’s just kicking the can down the road.
 
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Not really. Except for in Africa and Asia, the UMC is slowly dying. This makes a split even more likely, which could be the final nail in the coffin. And the churches in the developing countries need the larger UMC to survive, at least financially.
 
It was a fairly close vote anyways; 53% to 46%. Radicals never seem content with defeat. They’ll regroup and try again.
 
That’s interesting. In our city, the various Methodist churches are harbors for gay couples, gay pastors, and especially gay musicians.

And just this Sunday, one of the (female) pastors who happens to have a column in the local newspaper every Sunday expressed her opinion that ALL sexual orientations are God-given and therefore, ALL people must be welcomed in the Methodist Church, and all marriages should be celebrated.

My parents-in-law have attended a UMC for over 20 years (they were Assemblies of God/Pentecostal before that), and they are waiting to see what happens. I’m kind of hoping that the Methodists decide on the most liberal path, because my FIL has often expressed a desire to become Catholic. He attends Catholic Bible studies, missions, etc. with me or my husband at our parish, and loves them because they are so BIBLICAL!!! 😃
 
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From a pragmatic perspective, theologically splitting liberals from conservatives within the Church typically ends in the slow ruination of the liberal branch. A hyper-permissive god wouldn’t have a problem with you worshiping it from the lake, or your bed, or the breakfast table.

Evidenced in spades by the catastrophic crash of the mainlines since the 90s. If the episcopal church in my town hadn’t already been paid for years ago, they’d have to demolish it. I bet they have 10 faithfully tithing families, max.
 
As I mentioned somewhere before, there was a period when every time the corporate Episcopalians took another leap into apostasy, our Continuing Anglican parish would take in a few refugees. That hasn’t happened of late; we assume that all within the Episcopal Church fold are now happy with their surroundings and looking forward to more of the same.

Bu if this trend moves forward into Methodist-ism, I suspect we might be looking at a new source of parishioners. We’re first cousins, after all.
 
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In my area of the country, most Methodists are conservative - I know my church is. If homosexual behavior and unions are sanctioned and condoned under UMC, I will have to leave, also. However, I hope the current policy is maintained.

Note: I also still consider other sins, such as those listed in the Ten Commandments, to be equally egregious, so I am not singling out sins related to homosexuality. That just so happens to be the main topic at the conference.
 
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May it be so.

But there was a time when TEC, including locally, was orthodox and …motley, within that.

Then, in the night, silently came…and said, Yea, hath God said…

And here we all are.
 
This whole process doesn’t make sense to me.

It expresses a problem in the fundamental structures of Protestant ecclesiology. No one has a final say. Because once a denomination splits, you just choose where you’d rather go. These kinds of debates give the impression that there is no one Truth, but merely opinions.

I object to same-sex marriage, so I’ll take this church. I accept same-sex marriage, so I’ll take this other church. Etc…
 
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Peeps said:
That’s interesting. In our city, the various Methodist churches are harbors for gay couples, gay pastors, and especially gay musicians.
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I come from a rural area, so those that I have interacted with probably lean a little on the conservative side. They’re certainly more conservative than the local Episcopalians, Lutherans, UCC, etc.
 
RealisticCatholic said:
This whole process doesn’t make sense to me.
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It’s the same thing that happened with Catholic and Orthodox churches. Once they were united, then they were divided.
RealisticCatholic said:
It expresses a problem in the fundamental structures of Protestant ecclesiology. No one has a final say.
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It’s not a problem. It’s a feature. The United Methodist Church was constructed in such a way that they did not have one man (a pope) at the top. They don’t even have a presiding bishop. Instead they vested all power in the General Conference, which only meets every 4 years. Therefore, annual conferences, jurisdictions and bishops within the UMC have a lot of chances to just ignore official teaching or at least to pat offenders on the back.
RealisticCatholic said:
Because once a denomination splits, you just choose where you’d rather go. These kinds of debates give the impression that there is no one Truth, but merely opinions.
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Not at all. The fact that they are having the debate means it’s important and not simply a matter of personal opinion. If it were the Catholic Church, I suppose they would just kick everyone out who disagreed with the official teaching . . . .

That’s not going to happen because many of the bishops agree with the liberal position and would rather enable bad behavior from the liberal camp then actually enforce the Discipline. Therefore, there is never going to be a mass excommunication. Therefore, the only two options ultimately are to remove any mention of sexual ethics from the Discipline or offer an amicable separation.
RealisticCatholic said:
I object to same-sex marriage, so I’ll take this church. I accept same-sex marriage, so I’ll take this other church. Etc…
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It’s more like, I’m staying with my church–the church my family helped build and pay for and I’ll be d---- if I let some Liberal/Fundamentalist lawsuit chase me off of Grandma’s blessed church. So, if you’re looking at your local church, the option to amicably separate looks a lot better than losing your church property because you could not abide by whatever decision a split church ultimately chose.
 
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The Church of England doesn’t ordain (or consecrate) bishops in America (though they might participate).That would be the job of the Episcopal Church. Unless you are thinking of America in some general term.

The Episcopal Church does do little things like that, yes.
 
Well, we know today that the One Church Plan is finished. The General Conference is supposed to consider the Traditional Plan sometime today.
In a final vote, delegates at United Methodism’s governing General Conference rejected the One Church Plan heavily pushed by most USA bishops to overturn the church’s definition of marriage as husband and wife. It would have compelled local churches to choose their own marriage definition, localizing to tens of thousands of congregations an issue always reserved by General Conference.
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FuhrerKingBradley said:
I guess Sexuality is out in the open more than it has EVER been.
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That’s one way to look at it.

The Episcopal Church in America is the auto-cephelous Anglican Church here, which is in communion with Canterbury, and part of the worldwide Anglican Communion. But it is not the Church of England. Which does such stuff, too.

Other Anglican Churches in American are not in the Anglican Communion. Most such are part of what is referred to as the Anglican Continuum.
 
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