Metropolitan Kirill a better hope for unity?

[DL82]

I don’t claim to know much about the Russian Orthodox Church, but I have read that the new (locum tenens) Patriarch Kirill has a history of working in ecumenism and the World Council of Churches. As the Russians have been the most militant of the Orthodox communions in dialogue on reuinfication, do you think Metropolitan Kirill will be a better hope for unity with the Catholic Church than the late Patriarch Alexy, may he rest in peace.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**but I have read that the new (temporary) Patriarch Kirill **

**He is NOT “temporary Patriarch.” There is no such office in any Orthodox Church.

You wouldn’t call the Camerlegno a “temporary pope”, would you?

Met. Kirill is the “locum tenens” or guardian of the Patriarchal throne, much as the Camerlegno is after the Pope dies. **

 

[DL82]

**but I have read that the new (temporary) Patriarch Kirill **

**He is NOT “temporary Patriarch.” There is no such office in any Orthodox Church.

You wouldn’t call the Camerlegno a “temporary pope”, would you?

Met. Kirill is the “locum tenens” or guardian of the Patriarchal throne, much as the Camerlegno is after the Pope dies. **

Have amended accordingly, my apologies, no offence meant.

 

[Diak]

I do not think so. There is not likely any realistic hope for unity until the passing of the entire generation of Soviet-era bishops appointed within the post-Sergian MP.

 

[Amadeus]

**but I have read that the new (temporary) Patriarch Kirill **

He is NOT “temporary Patriarch.” There is no such office in any Orthodox Church.

You wouldn’t call the Camerlegno a “temporary pope”, would you?

**Met. Kirill is the “locum tenens” or guardian of the Patriarchal throne, much as the Camerlegno is after the Pope dies. **

I would just like to correct this misimpression on the role of the Camerlengo upon the death of a Pope.

The Camerlengo is not comparable to that of a “locum tenens” or guardian of the Patriarchal throne, as Metropolitan Kirill is now for the ROC-MP.

During the Papal Interregnum (the period between the death of a Pope and the election of his succerssor), the term of all the officials of the Roman Curia ended with the death of the Pope, except for 2 officials:

(1) the Camerlengo, who heads the Apostolic Camera, the department with duties that are directly connected with the Vacancy of the Holy See; and

(2) the Major Penitentiary, whose important work for the good of souls continues.

Upon the death of the Pope, day-to-day governance of the Catholic Church (aka the Holy See) is automatically transferred to and resides in the College of Cardinals by canon law for the entire period of the Papal Interregnum. (The College is also charged with the special duty to elect in conclave the next Pope.) It exercises governance by General Congregations or by Special (smaller)Congregations.

The Camerlengo oversees the daily activities of the dicasteries of the Roman Curia and reports directly to the College of Cardinals, through the Dean. In short, the Camerlengo merely assists the College of Cardinals.

 

[Amadeus]

I lean towards the observation of Fr. Dcn. Randy above, whose UGCC bore the brunt of persecution during the Soviet era, with the apparent support or instigation of the ROC-MP.

However, Met. Kirill was the ROC’s point-man for the ecumenical encounters with the Catholic Church.

I think he has maintained cordial relations with Cardinal Kasper of the PCPCU.

 

[Aramis]

Until we see who is elected Patriarch (or if the Synod decides to return to a council rule, instead), we should concern ourselves with payers for their synod to select a good patriarch, and for the repose of the Soul of HH Alexi II.

 

[Diak]

Until we see who is elected Patriarch (or if the Synod decides to return to a council rule, instead), we should concern ourselves with payers for their synod to select a good patriarch, and for the repose of the Soul of HH Alexi II.

“Payers”?

I think everyone has expressed their concerns and prayers for the MP during this time. That shouldn’t preclude discussing historical realities.

 

[Aramis]

And discussing the locum tenens does no good, Father Deacon.

Pray for their synod to select one pro-unification as patriarch.

Met. Kyril is not going to do anything of note until the synod elects a patriarch.

 

[Volodymyr]

Synod to select one pro-unification as patriarch.

Met. Kyril is not going to do anything of note until the synod elects a patriarch.

The Holy Synod (Священный синод) which consists of several permanent and temporary bishop/metropolitan members does not choose the new Patriarch. Rather the place-holder of the patriarchal throne (местоблюститель патриаршего престола), Metropolitan Kirill of Smolensk, and the Holy Synod will call for an High Priest Council (Архиерейский собор) of all bishops and their vicars which must occur before a Local Council (Поместный собор). This local council consisting of bishops, monks, priests and lay-believers will choose new Patriarch. The date of meeting of the High Priest Council and subsequent Local Council has not be chosen as yet.

All bishops, priests and monks are in favor of union of Catolic church to Orthodoxy as was Aleksij II.

 

[bpbasilphx]

but I have read that the new (locum tenens) Patriarch Kirill has a history

**Don’t you get it? He’s STILL not Patriarch Kirill at all.

He is Metropolitan Kirill and will remain such until his death, barring deposition or election as Patriarch, which has not yet happened.**

 

[Pope_Noah_I]

The way things look the RCC would far rather have Kirill as Patriarch than the other front-runner, Kliment. I would say that Metropolitan Kirill gives us significant reason for hope for re-unification of the Church, re-evangelization of Europe and a Kremlin-independent Church, whereas Kliment would do the exact opposite. I’m praying for Kirill, unless God wills otherwise.

 

[Formosus]

You can never really guess. Met. Kirill might end up shocking everyone and breaking expectations for a more RC friendly ROC, likewise his other potential Patriarchs might be just as surprising. He was put into the job of ecumenical dialogue the Catholic church, that doesn’t mean he liked his job.

 

[Aramis]

You can never really guess. Met. Kirill might end up shocking everyone and breaking expectations for a more RC friendly ROC, likewise his other potential Patriarchs might be just as surprising. He was put into the job of ecumenical dialogue the Catholic church, that doesn’t mean he liked his job.

It is entirely possible that a relatively minor Bishop could also be chosen, tho’ given the laity role in patriarchal elections under the Russian model, that’s less likely.

 

[twf]

How does the election work? Are all the faithful entitled to vote?!

 

[Aramis]

How does the election work? Are all the faithful entitled to vote?!

No. Volodomyr mentions the process, and it’s not quite the simple system used by the EC’s.

The Russian system has a series of sobors (councils) which include the Bishop, priestly representatives, and lay representatives. I suspect that these are, like the OCA Metropolitan Sobor, already selected, and simply need to be convened.

 

[bpbasilphx]

How does the election work? Are all the faithful entitled to vote?!

**According to a priest correspondent, (a member of ROCOR which is now in communion with the MP), an All-Russian Council of the all bishops and delegates of the clergy, monks, nuns, and laity, nominate three candidates.

Their names are written on slips of paper and put in a chalice on a table in front of the Royal Doors.

After a vigil of prayer, an old monk pulls the name out of the chalice.**

 

[Diak]

To put it simply, since the rearrangement of the MP after the death of Patriarch Tikhon into the Sergian period, there is an “internal” selection process and one that is “external”, or perhaps a better term is the “private” part of the selection and the “public” part.

 

[Volodymyr]

After a vigil of prayer, an old monk pulls the name out of the chalice.

The High Priest Council is set to occur 25 Jan 2009 and the Local council (поместный собор) to occur 27 January 2009 with anticipated intronizatsia of the new Patriarch 1 February. The High Priest council will decide the method of election.

The list of all eparchial and monastic delegates to Local Council must be submitted to High Priest Council by 15 January.

Patriarch Tikhon was elected by this method of choice of three names in a special vessel. Patriarch Aleksij I and patriarch Pimen chosen by an open vote of all members of Local Council, Patriarch Aleksij II was elected by secret vote of all members.

Probably will chose from Iuvenalij, Kliment, Kirill and Filaret of Minsk. But some hope that choose a monk of Moskow so as not to transfer a bishop from one eparchia to another which is done now in Greek and Russian Church but very rare in Bulgarian and Serbian.

 

[slavko]

As the Russians have been the most militant of the Orthodox communions in dialogue on reuinfication…

When and where was the dialogue on reunification conducted?

For your info, Bulgars never bothered to send their delegation to Ravena, unlike Russians, who came and then went back.