Mexican anger over US 'trespass'

[Ituyu]

Apparently you didn’t read the rest of my post. The U.S. could provide economic and technical assistance to Mexico in order to provide jobs in Mexico. The Mexican government has the resources to do right by its citizens – it just won’t do it while it has the United States to fall back on. Why is this less humane than the way it is now? Seems to me it would be more humane.

Yes, Mexico has been growing and will likely continue to grow but it cannot handle it’s vast poverty, right now, even of those who are working today. And, we have gained from their growth. But, it’s not a matter that we “can” play a role in their growth, it’s a matter that we “want” to profit from that growth too. We would be foolish to not cultivate our role in their growth. However, handling future needs does not mean that we can ignore the plight of the poor today especially when their labor satisfies a mutual need and that what I understood “tough love” to mean. That would be inhumane. Our relationship is a mutually dependent one, we need each other.

 

[pnewton]

Even if that were true, how does that solve the problems on either side of the border?

It doesn’t solve anything. But then this thread is not about sovling border issues, but the Mexican resentment of the US over the border. Their attitude is as hypocritical as someone like Nancy Pelosi kissing babies.

 

[Lance]

Even if that were true, how does that solve the problems on either side of the border? ~~~.

What do you mean “Even if that were true”? It is quite obviously true, there is little difference in the area 100 miles north or south of the Mexican border

 

[Ituyu]

It doesn’t solve anything. But then this thread is not about sovling border issues, but the Mexican resentment of the US over the border. Their attitude is as hypocritical as someone like Nancy Pelosi kissing babies.

How is their complaint about our official government activities on their soil hypocritical? We knew that we went beyond our official governmental rights and authority, why else would we apologize?

 

[pnewton]

How is their complaint about our official government activities on their soil hypocritical?

Assuming you are serious and can not see the hypocracy, it is because they have also complained loud and often about the US trying to stop their citizens penetrating a lot deeper and without any intent to come back.

Calling it “official government activities” is irrelevant. It was construction workers, not a covert invasion. Just as the whole complaint is a red herring. Mexico does not like us securing our southern border. This is not about men being a few yard on the wrong side. It is about Mexico attempting to dictate U.S. policy.

 

[Ituyu]

Assuming you are serious and can not see the hypocracy, it is because they have also complained loud and often about the US trying to stop their citizens penetrating a lot deeper and without any intent to come back.

Sorry but both countries have an interest in the safety and how their citizens are treated abroad.

Calling it “official government activities” is irrelevant. It was construction workers, not a covert invasion. Just as the whole complaint is a red herring. Mexico does not like us securing our southern border. This is not about men being a few yard on the wrong side. It is about Mexico attempting to dictate U.S. policy.

 

[Jeffrey]

Uh… no. Too many problems.

Make Mexico the 51st state in the Union!

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Assuming you are serious and can not see the hypocracy, it is because they have also complained loud and often about the US trying to stop their citizens penetrating a lot deeper and without any intent to come back.

Calling it “official government activities” is irrelevant. It was construction workers, not a covert invasion. Just as the whole complaint is a red herring. Mexico does not like us securing our southern border. This is not about men being a few yard on the wrong side. It is about Mexico attempting to dictate U.S. policy.

Maybe, but did you consider if we so value sovereignty why did we pay people who are violating Mexican sovereignty? btw do you have any idea how many countries today have some US government employee stationed their? Or even worse does the US so value “sovereignty” to refuse to spy, as spying would be us disregarding “sovereignty” of others. I think this may be what they are trying to teach us. Our value of sovereignty seems to depend on whether it is U.S. sovereignty or the U.S. violating the sovereignty of others.

 

[pnewton]

And, we both know, that we gain from their labor. And, we also know that after 5 billion on fencing and increased patrols that the existing fencing is already failing. There is a more humane and effective way to control our border, it’s called Immigration Reform.

 

[pnewton]

Maybe, but did you consider if we so value sovereignty why did we pay people who are violating Mexican sovereignty?

Because they weren’t paid to violate Mexican sovereignty. They were contracted to build a barrier. Like many contractors, they broke the rules to make their job easier. I never said they were right to do so. I think they should be subject to pay for any law they violated. My point has only been that Mexican anger is not about the “trespass” but about the barrier.

 

[Mary3]

why can’t we bill them for the social costs of their illegals?

Actually, some have tried. I work for a public health care facility in a border state that houses massive numbers of illegal immigrants. Our state-legislated, tax-funded mandate is to care for all residents of our county regardless of their ability to pay us. And regardless of their immigration status.

About two years ago, our CEO sent a bill to Vincente Fox. I guess our check’s in the mail because we’re still waiting for payment.

 

[Ituyu]

Ituyu;1944450:

Thank you for showing my point. It always comes back to this, doesn’t it. I guess we will just have to disagree, because I have no respect for the whining of the Mexican government in this incident. I seriously doubt many Americans will, except those that** already**

oppose border protection.

Well for one, those that don’t believe an ineffective and wasteful fencing and border patrol program is what is needed can be found among our own national security experts. I am certain that they are NOT against border protection. We do not protect our border by wasting resources against a labor force that we know we need. They are not a threat to our security. It’s our policies that have to change. Why insist on doing what we have continually done in the past and has always failed? Isn’t it more prudent to use our existing procedures to allow for the flow of a needed labor force and that would generate more income? Isn’t it reasonable to allow those who have become an integral part of the American fabric to come out of the shadows and have the opportunity to become a fully participating member of our society?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

… I have no respect for the whining of the Mexican government in this incident. …

There you go, volating the sovereignty was no big deal

… I never said they were right to do so. I think they should be subject to pay for any law they violated…

here is more… What should the fine be 10 days pay? twenty? If you’re only going to fine then, why not just fine them anyway without a fence? Just as violating the traffic laws. That leads to the thing you need to explain if today they walk across and imaginary line but one year from today they what ( climb a fence ) walk through a gate? What did you achieve outside of feelings? Even now only small amounts of people, cars, trucks, trains, etc crossing the border are checked. If you try to require 100% inspection well the price of the fence will look small, and you will have increased job outsourcing, thus increasing Mexican power. Under 100% inspections conditions the manufactures will typically increase production in Mexico thus reducing the number of border crossings targeting a single cross of a finished good. As for the idea drugs will go away that is just a bad joke. Every police station in America has illegal drugs with then feet no matter how far from the Mexican border. If you can not stop drugs in small rural town forget about stopping drugs in major cities and across any borders.

 

[pnewton]

Isn’t it reasonable to allow those who have become an integral part of the American fabric to come out of the shadows and have the opportunity to become a fully participating member of our society?

I agree, but that’s not what this thread is about. Laborers coming across are also not why I would like to see a protected border, but then that’s not what this thread is about.

There you go, volating the sovereignty was no big deal

You’re right. I don’t think it was a big deal. I also don’t think the violation is the real reason Mexico is belly-aching either. If it was, they should have arrested the people on the spot and dealt with them as they was fit.

 

[Ituyu]

I agree, but that’s not what this thread is about. Laborers coming across are also not why I would like to see a protected border, but then that’s not what this thread is about.

One last time.

Really your argument is based on two separate issues. One, Mexico’s concerns (whining) about the treatment of its citizens is not a "Sovereignty” issue. Two, Mexico’s complaint about its border being violated through a willful and official government act, which is a “Sovereignty” issue. They’re apples and oranges. Mexico has not violated our “Sovereignty”. Governments, not private individuals acting on their own volition, violate sovereign rights. So, I don’t see how anyone can correctly compare Mexico’s complaint about the violation of its Sovereignty to voicing its concerns about the treatment of its citizens. Mexico registered its opposition to the fence well before the fence was approved and I believe they gave some good reasons. So how is it hypocritical for them to complain when we fail to respect its sovereignty in constructing the fence? I see both those arguments to be quite consistent. Aren’t we being hypocritical by complaining so much about the importance of “protecting” our border and then violating Mexico’s sovereignty?

If it was, they should have arrested the people on the spot and dealt with them as they was fit.