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Joe_Kelley
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Ah! If I knew now what I knew then.
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a14yrldwitopinn
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lance i despise of you… i despise all of you who do not take me seriusly
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mystified
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This fence makes us look very foolish, when one looks at recent history: Can you say “The Berlin Wall”?
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Jeffrey
Guest
Nope… the Berlin Wall was way different. That wall split a country in two. Eat/West. The Southern Border wall seperates two contries. I have no prob with it. Shoulda built it a long time ago.
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Jeanette_L
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The Berlin Wall was a prison wall, built to keep people in, not out, and by a Communist hostile takeover of another country/city, a completely different scenario.
The U.S. is within it’s rights to build a wall to protect itself from illegal invasion. To deny this reality, is to deny reality. And unlike with the Communist Berlin Wall, people are free to leave our country anytime they choose. As a matter of fact, we encourage it, please, if you are here illegally, please leave!
Why are we continually portrayed as the bad guy because we want people to obey laws? Without laws, our society would crumble. Why do we then act as though some laws are not worth obeying or enforcing? This is the issue. People are coming here illegally, not following the correct immigration procedures. We are perfectly reasonable in expecting people who want to come here to follow our laws in doing so.
We are not a third world country who has no rule of law, and we want to stay that way!
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Ituyu
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No one has argued that we should be a country without laws. However, there comes a time when we have to admit that we made a mistake and act accordingly. That too, is consistent with being a “lawful” country. What kind of country can’t admit that some laws do not serve the greater good and then make the appropriate adjustments. There is more than ample evidence to suggest that we should have expected an increase in immigration from Mexico post IRCA 1986. Instead we contradicted ourselves by seeking reduce the flow of immigration instead of raalizing that we needed to be realistic. We bumbled our policy and that is why we have more “illegal” immigration which was totally avoidable by us. We decided what was legal and what was not and we failed to properly quantify our needs. Interestingly we decided to make “Illgal” what all previous immgrants had done and the Market behaved the way it always does. When there are jobs that would otherwise go wanting, people come to fill them, and just because we make poor policy decisions will not change the nature of the laws of Supply and Demand. We erred in being unrealistic in determining our labor needs. The proof is in clear view, 11 million “illegal” members of our communities that filled the jobs that we needed filled. It would compound our error to take action that would not meet the American view of Justice that the punishment should fit the crime. In this case the crime was a violation of Civil Laws that happened due to our poor decision making. The fact too is that these people intended no harm and indeed the vast majority of economists agree that we gained through their productivity and consumption. The fair and equitible resolution is to bring our policy to more realistic immigration numbers and for those already here to create a process to allow them to become fully participating members of society. Of course, they must pay fines, back taxes and meet all reasonable requirements. In so doing, that would resolve the issue of “illegal” entry and make them accountable for their responsibilities.
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mary_bobo
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Please clean up your language. It is possible to make a point without criticism of the other person whose opinion you do not agree with. You will be taken seriously when you act that way. God bless.
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Jeanette_L
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I think that you are over simplifying our problem. No one is going to argue that we need workers. But what we need is *legal *workers. And just because our country didn’t have the courage to deal with this situation equitably in the past does not give us an excuse to ignore it indefinitely.
We have a security issue happening in our country right now. And to use the blanket statement that the people pouring across our undefended borders mean us no harm is naive at best. We know that not all illigal immigrants are innocent and mean no harm. Does this mean that we think that all immigrant workers aren’t innocent and do mean us harm? Of course not. But the fact that we have not had any control over who is entering our country has been very dangerous for us. Ask any major city’s police force about the crime due to drug trafficing, gang violence… It is no secret that many criminals come over our borders and become our problem, and we don’t need any more problems like this. Ask those in charge of our prison systems what has been to cost to our society in keeping these dangerous criminals off our streets. We can’t handle the numbers, it’s so great.
And then, of course, we have a national security issue when it comes to easy access across our borders that we cannot ignore. This becomes much more than a migrant worker issue, and I think that you have to be comatose to not recognize this.
We have a lot of work to do. We should have been doing it for the last 2-3 decades. Just because we had cowards as representatives in Washington over this period of time doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t wake up, demand responsible actions from our lawmakers, and get busy in straightening out the mess. And we start by stopping the influx, then we get busy in trying to sort out how to deal with those who are already here and how to get them on the road to legalization.
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Ituyu
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Ituyu
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con’t
One issue that you totally ignore is that our northern border is much more porous and undermanned than our southern border. It is much easier to cross that border undetected. Our own Immigration officials have voiced their concerns that an imbalance of emphasis places greater stress along our northern border. In fact, they complained that they were already experiencing an increase in activity on both sides of our northern border. It is all too painfully clear that even if we were able to shut down our southern border that traffic would merely be directed along our much larger, more porous and less guarded northern border. So in the end we accomplish nothing but waste and wishful thinking leaving us no more protected than before. Remember the people that pose the greatest threat are those with the resources to gain access without the necessity of facing a fence.
I recognize that none of our military statregists have stepped up to tell us that we need a fence, Homeland Security prefers an alternative to a fence and our own Border Patrol says that a fence won’t work. I think you have to be pretty frightened to believe people armed with brooms and dust pans or aprons and mops are a major security risk. Again all the 9/11 terrorists came in legally. They have the resouces to avoid risky border crossings. Let’s not undermine our security through reactionary measures that wastes resouces and social capital.
If you’re really that concerned about our border security, wouldn’t you want to take measures that will work sooner rather than later? A Legalization procedure can be implemented virtually overnite. Our ability to process applicants can also be increased virtually overnite. And, those costs are largely underwritten by the applicants themselves. A fence is years in the making, remember only partial funds have been approved and those funds are subject to appropriations elsewhere. And, there is no guarantee that the other needed funds will be appropriated. The personell necessary to guard the fence is also years in the making. Have the funds been appropriated for all of this? I don’t think so.
One issue that you totally ignore is that our northern border is much more porous and undermanned than our southern border. It is much easier to cross that border undetected. Our own Immigration officials have voiced their concerns that an imbalance of emphasis places greater stress along our northern border. In fact, they complained that they were already experiencing an increase in activity on both sides of our northern border. It is all too painfully clear that even if we were able to shut down our southern border that traffic would merely be directed along our much larger, more porous and less guarded northern border. So in the end we accomplish nothing but waste and wishful thinking leaving us no more protected than before. Remember the people that pose the greatest threat are those with the resources to gain access without the necessity of facing a fence.
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Walt_Oliver
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Please stay on topic, which is whether Mexico or the UN should have any say in the decision to erect the fence. All these other discussions belong in one of the other threads. Thanks for your cooperation.
Walt
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Ituyu
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Can you move them to a more appropriate Immigration thread?
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nearing80
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That is for sure! The UN can do absolutely** 0** Today I read of the Chinese building a concrete and barbed wire fence to keep the North Koreans out (Drudge Report). The UN was/is/will be one of the biggest ‘Speak loudly but backtrack rapidly’ examples of world government ever.
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Jeffrey
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Or they might send a nasty letter. LOL!
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Brenda4God
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I don’t agree with the comparison to the Berlin wall. The Berlin Wall was made to keep people from leaving East Germany because it was so bad.
That would be like Mexico putting up a wall to keep them in, not like the US putting up a wall to keep them out.
So this isn’t the same thing at all, is it?
I feel bad for them. But there’s a right way to do this and a wrong way.
That would be like Mexico putting up a wall to keep them in, not like the US putting up a wall to keep them out.
So this isn’t the same thing at all, is it?
I feel bad for them. But there’s a right way to do this and a wrong way.
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Jeanette_L
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Why doesn’t the U.N. address the *corruption within the Mexican government *which keeps it’s people poor and in need of looking for their survival outside their own borders, instead of addressing whether the U.S. has the *autonomy to secure it’s borders *against illegal intruders?
Oh, that’s right, the U.N. is impotent. I think the only reason they exist is to give the U.S. bad press around the globe, you know, keep the fires stoked against us . Keep the world blaming us for every problem that has ever and will ever exist on this planet and keep us busy with our guilt complexes.
By the way, I thought the reason we relocated all our manufacturing plants south of the border was to remedy this situation of financial inequity. What ever happened with that? Who’s making the money off the Mexican labor force down there? If the U.N. addressed this situation, maybe the fence wouldn’t now be such an issue with the Mexicans. Oh, that’s right, that little impotent problem again! Isn’t there a little blue pill for this?
Oh, that’s right, the U.N. is impotent. I think the only reason they exist is to give the U.S. bad press around the globe, you know, keep the fires stoked against us . Keep the world blaming us for every problem that has ever and will ever exist on this planet and keep us busy with our guilt complexes.
By the way, I thought the reason we relocated all our manufacturing plants south of the border was to remedy this situation of financial inequity. What ever happened with that? Who’s making the money off the Mexican labor force down there? If the U.N. addressed this situation, maybe the fence wouldn’t now be such an issue with the Mexicans. Oh, that’s right, that little impotent problem again! Isn’t there a little blue pill for this?
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Fitz
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You can’t compare the two since one couldn’t be crossed even legally. We have a right and a responsibility to keep our citizens safe from the attack of Mexico and the millions of illegals citizens. The UN should have nothing to say about it. It won’t harm a soul for sure. What would the UN complain about?
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St_John
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Does anyone know how deep under the ground they intend to build the wall? I mean, can’t the people just dig under it? Somehow, I don’t think it’s a good idea. Mexico has a lot of nerve fighting it though. Who are they to tell us what to build? The UN is a dumb organization that’s mostly a bunch of speeches and ceremonial stuff. They don’t have any real function, other than to make yahoos from little countries feel heard. Who cares if Mexico takes their childish beef to the toothless UN, I’m so scared!!! 
The UN reminds me of student council.
The UN reminds me of student council.
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mary_bobo
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Agree about U.N., but have you ever noticed how anti-American they are?Does anyone know how deep under the ground they intend to build the wall? I mean, can’t the people just dig under it? Somehow, I don’t think it’s a good idea. Mexico has a lot of nerve fighting it though. Who are they to tell us what to build? The UN is a dumb organization that’s mostly a bunch of speeches and ceremonial stuff. They don’t have any real function, other than to make yahoos from little countries feel heard. Who cares if Mexico takes their childish beef to the toothless UN, I’m so scared!!!
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St_John
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They are anti-American for the same reason that people are jealous of rich successful people. People just can’t handle other people’s success. They envy it, but don’t want to change their own lives. Instead they want to blame the successful person for their failures.
It’s totally explainable by any psychologist. Insecure people with low self esteem project their insecurities on other people in much the same way. Look at some of the countries that are the most critical of the United States. They are often unsuccessful countries whose citizens are clamoring to get to the United States.
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