Michael Vick in NFL!

[pnewton]

The subject is Vick and his criminal felony background and how the NFL is so money hungry they will employ any jerk who will bring in the big bucks.

Does character count for anything anymore?

I think this shows a callous, judgementalism that is beyond what we should have. Judging his action is not the same as condemning his character. This may come as a shock but some people who commit felonies are still decent human beings. A weakness in one area does not mean that one has no character. Sometimes people even develop character through adversity. I have always been a proponent that everyone deserves a second chance after they have made restitution for their deed.

And no, character is not a major issue in winning a football game. What is required is that one follows the rules. When one commits an infraction, he accepts the penalty and then must overcome it.

Are you even a football fan?

 

[shannyk]

I think this shows a callous, judgementalism that is beyond what we should have. Judging his action is not the same as condemning his character. This may come as a shock but some people who commit felonies are still decent human beings. A weakness in one area does not mean that one has no character. Sometimes people even develop character through

adversity. I have always been a proponent that everyone deserves a second chance after they have made restitution for their deed.

And no, character is not a major issue in winning a football game. What is required is that one follows the rules. When one commits an infraction, he accepts the penalty and then must overcome it.

Are you even a football fan?

The jerk comment was general as I said ‘any’ jerk. There are worse than Vick for sure.

What does me being a football fan have anything to do with it?

Of course a person can overcome their past, of course people deserve a second chance, but in the world of professional athletes there are special rules. Your Joe Smith felon who serves his time is going to have to go back out there in the world and prove himself a changed person and likely have a hard time in doing so. I think that is an integral part of paying for your crime. I mean take something simple like lying. If I lie get found out, I may have some kind of consequence but beyond that I’m going to have a hard time regaining people’s trust. That is the overcoming part, and that is part of the game that these pro athletes don’t seem to have to play by.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I’m hypocritical? I should excuse him because he can throw a ball when you and I would not be excused by our employers? You can buy into that, but I’m not.

Yes, I’m judging him on a very public instance. How else would we have know what he was like if his cruelty hadn’t led him to being found and convicted of a crime? How many “instances” do you need before you realize he’s a barbarian?

Can you show me where I applied the term ‘hypocritical’ to you personally?

On the other hand, you do not know him personally. You do not know whether he is a barbarian or is not.

 

[aicirt]

Can you show me where I applied the term ‘hypocritical’ to you personally?

On the other hand, you do not know him personally. You do not know whether he is a barbarian or is not.

I wouldn’t want to know him personally.

 

[stringbeanduck]

How about we draw the line where the line draws it? Murder carries a along enough sentence as it is a far more serious crime. Therefore this is a question which would never come up.

Not all of them. It’s not uncommon for people to get off on few years with certain charges. I’m not worried about this question coming up; I’m just currious where we say, “no you had your chance, sorry you can’t play anymore.”

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

You are right if his life were privcate. I Only know what he shows me. BUt this is the most tiresome argument about celebrities I have ever heard. Jon and Kate, Michael Jackson and anyone else runs to the camera’sanytime there is something in it for them and then curse them when bad publicity happens. Mr Vick is a man who is trying to get rich. Believe me if he did something in private it would be public.

How do you know?

This entire thread is very reminiscent of the Michael Jackson thread. The same sort of rancor and jealousy toward celebrities is on display as well.

Do people despise sports figures for their abilities? Prowess? Fame? Because they can do what some wish they could do?

 

[Matt33]

How do you know?

This entire thread is very reminiscent of the Michael Jackson thread. The same sort of rancor and jealousy toward celebrities is on display as well.

Do people despise sports figures for their abilities? Prowess? Fame? Because they can do what some wish they could do?

Are you kidding me!!! that is why we love sports figures. Because they can do what we want to. Because they can win. Because they have the things that we pretend to have in every backyard game of kids in the entire world. But that is exactly why we HATE when they fall from the model of not just decencey but into the realm of criminal. **]It seems to me that those who want to give them a pass just may see some of thier own darkside in them. ** Maybe you don’t have the same view of the media, hollywood, fame, celebrity, agents, publicists and, sports that some do but if you have spent any amount of time in this you will see that it is not so easy as just saying maybe he is a good guy how do we know. WE WOULD KNOW! He would pay dearly to get it out there. Fair or unfair these men need to be decent. At least as decent as you or I.

 

[Matt33]

Did you know him personally?

Then how are you to judge what he did or did not do in private?

Do you? How can you say that anything he MIGHT do in private makes up for what he DOES in public.
How are you to vindicate his character by just speculating what he might do in private. Please, just one thing would help. lIke beforebed he kisses his pet bunny goddnight anything. No just what we know he did. Violently fighting dogs to the death, torturing them, funding them, betting on them for fun. Bloody dead dog carcasees being disposed of. I’s sure That is not telling of his character. Just give him the benefit of the doubt, any one of us could have been in that situation.

 

[Matt33]

How do you know?

This entire thread is very reminiscent of the Michael Jackson thread. The same sort of rancor and jealousy toward celebrities is on display as well.

Do people despise sports figures for their abilities? Prowess? Fame? Because they can do what some wish they could do?

Perhaps this reminds you of Michael Jackson because you are defending against odds and common sense. Having kids and being a stay at home dad, sure cleans up the gray areas of the world.

 

[whatevergirl]

*Why is it wrong for the NFL to have standards? We have standards for our President…he can’t commit crimes, and still be president…right? If you are an employee somewhere…would your employer take you back if you ran an underground dog killing ring? (be honest) Do priests have standards? Teachers? Yes…why is it that in the pro sports world, there seems to be no standards as exist in other professions? Because the world cares THAT MUCH about a ball game?

Back to what I said earlier…we have lost what’s important in life. Pro sports is not that important…it’s fun to watch, but somewhere along the lines, we lost our way, if we can cheer for someone who cheats on his wife, beats up women, kills dogs, etc…just because he can make a touchdown. Or score a goal better than the rest. Not jealous, Sailor, troubled by where we’re heading in the world.

I wouldn’t be able to play pro-football, anyways. *

 

[Matt33]

*Why is it wrong for the NFL to have standards? We have standards for our President…he can’t commit crimes, and still be president…right? If you are an employee somewhere…would your employer take you back if you ran an underground dog killing ring? (be honest) Do priests have standards? Teachers? Yes…why is it that in the pro sports world, there seems to be no standards as exist in other professions? Because the world cares THAT MUCH about a ball game?

Back to what I said earlier…we have lost what’s important in life. Pro sports is not* that important…it’s fun to watch, but somewhere along the lines, we lost our way, if we can cheer for someone who cheats on his wife, beats up women, kills dogs, etc…just because he can make a touchdown. Or score a goal better than the rest. Not jealous, Sailor, troubled by where we’re heading in the world.

I wouldn’t be able to play pro-football, anyways.

I agree, if this guy was a marine or a general, would we be talking about his right to be a general again? Would we fault the military for being anti “catholic” for the idea of a dishonorable discharge. And his inability to go back to his former post. ( I often think many of us Catholics really don’t grasp what true forgivness entails." Like the analogy that is used by some apologists. If you sin, it is like you spilled milk. You can be forgiven but there is still a mess." And who knows if he even should be forgiven, did he seek repentance fro those he wronged without the “gun of money” to his head. Should’t we use God’s own criteria laid out in the sacrament of confession for our model of forgivness.") I use these examples because the military is a place of violence with standards. Kind of like football or many sports for that matter which at thier base provide a scratch for the itch of battle without killing anyone.

 

[SaltySirena]

• We have standards for our President…he can’t commit crimes, and still be president…right? *

Do you even remember the Clinton Presidency? The man was being sued for sexual harassment, that was what caused all the trouble. He perjured himself and told others to do so. He used his power to manipulate Federal hiring to get his girlfriend a job to shut her up. He was credibly accused of forcible rape. The perjury was sufficiently proved that he was disbarred. And yet, he finished out his two terms, and those who impeached him were painted as intolerant, sex-hating conservatives who just wanted to punish him for having some fun.

If someone that morally bankrupt can stay President, and his detractors and those investigating him can be destroyed personally and professionally, publicly and behind the scenes, what business does a paltry sports league have with enforcing standards?

Just sayin’

 

[shannyk]

Do you even remember the Clinton Presidency? The man was being sued for sexual harassment, that was what caused all the trouble. He perjured himself and told others to do so. He used his power to manipulate Federal hiring to get his girlfriend a job to shut her up. He was credibly accused of forcible rape. The perjury was sufficiently proved that he was disbarred. And yet, he finished out his two terms, and those who impeached him were painted as intolerant, sex-hating conservatives who just wanted to punish him for having some fun.

If someone that morally bankrupt can stay President, and his detractors and those investigating him can be destroyed personally and professionally, publicly and behind the scenes, what business does a paltry sports league have with enforcing standards?

Just sayin’

Two wrongs don’t make a right??

 

[pnewton]

*Why is it wrong for the NFL to have standards? [QUO

*
Yes, but the standards belong to the NFL to make up in the best interest of their business and their fans, whatever they deem that to be. They are not a political party or an animal rights organization. Do you think a person once convicted of a crime should never again be pemitted to work or to be moved to a lower class and permitted only basic manual labor? The man has paid his debt. The crime he committed is nor related to football or the NFL. Yes, an embezzler should not be permitted to return to accounting or a pervert to working with children. Beyond that, it should be up to the employer, not society at large . Like you said, football is not that important, so what is the beef?* *
[/QUOTE]

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Do you? How can you say that anything he MIGHT do in private makes up for what he DOES in public.
How are you to vindicate his character by just speculating what he might do in private. Please, just one thing would help. lIke beforebed he kisses his pet bunny goddnight anything. No just what we know he did. Violently fighting dogs to the death, torturing them, funding them, betting on them for fun. Bloody dead dog carcasees being disposed of. I’s sure That is not telling of his character. Just give him the benefit of the doubt, any one of us could have been in that situation.

As distasteful as fighting dogs may be, it is even more distasteful to see so much vilification of EVERY aspect of this man’s character, hidden or not.

As if every one of us did not need God’s mercy. ‘Let he who is without sin…’

And who are you or anyone else to judge the state of MY or anyone else’s PRIVATE life? Or my decision to defend Jackson and Vick? What does anyone’s state in life have to do with it? Parent or priest, single or married, there is no calling that automatically confers sainthood—OR the ability to read minds.

Who gave you an exclusive right to have those ‘gray areas’ cleared up?’ because of whatever state in life you have attained? And the rest of us do not have?

There is nothing gray about mercy or forgiveness.

Maybe this sort of guessing game is a big reason why too many people look at Catholicism today and go, ‘yuck.’

May God show you more mercy than you are showing anyone who has fallen.

 

[Matt33]

As distasteful as fighting dogs may be, it is even more distasteful to see so much vilification of EVERY aspect of this man’s character, hidden or not.The only villification of character here is one he already did. You are right though he could be a great guy but then he is stupid for not getting his publicist on that or talking to the fans, NFL, animal rights organizations before his lawyers tell him that it would be a good idea to do so.

As if every one of us did not need God’s mercy. 'Let he who is without sin…'Ah, I pray you are never on a jury or parole hearing.

And who are you or anyone else to judge the state of MY or anyone else’s PRIVATE life? Or my decision to defend Jackson and Vick? What does anyone’s state in life have to do with it? Parent or priest, single or married, there is no calling that automatically confers sainthood—OR the ability to read minds.You are right, anything anyone does in there private life is off limits, including more heinouse crimes than these? Everyone is just on thier own path right?

Who gave you an exclusive right to have those ‘gray areas’ cleared up?’ because of whatever state in life you have attained? And the rest of us do not have?God and the Church clears up gray areas into right and wrong. Moral realitivism takes them away. Who gave me that insight? my Creator who is forming my concious because I engage in the Holy conversation. I pity those who do not and pray for them.

There is nothing gray about mercy or forgiveness.Or justice and rightousness. God and our courts try to temper both with each other, you jsut seem to favor one side.

Maybe this sort of guessing game is a big reason why too many people look at Catholicism today and go, 'yuck.'Maybe those people shoud be educated on the wonderful sacrament of Confession. Yup, people may be turned off by the idea that we are responsible for our actions. I do get that. But I don’t think we need to water down the truth. Remember people were disgusted and walked away during the bread of life discorse too.

May God show you more mercy than you are showing anyone who has fallen. Gee thanks I’ll bet He will. Remember we are talking about weather Vick is a great guy who should play in the NFL. That is pretty trivial. I am sorry you are so upset by this. If vicky is forgiven, then his place in heaven hopefully next to you and me will be better than a football contract and that is the private part that is between him and God and I can’t know. But weather this guy deserves to PLAY again for more money than most of us will ever see in our WORK is for public fodder especially when we pay the saleries. I think my opinion of this man and what my idea of justice is is not the crime here. Funny how you go strait to judging me but refuse to judge others. It is good that you are concerned about my forgiveness. I hope God shows you more justice than you show others.

 

[Departed_Light]

So far Vick has not been picked up by any team. It would be interesting if the NFL allowed him to play but no individual team signed him.

Here’s an op-ed piece that has some points on the good that would come from Vicks returning to pro ball, if you’re interested in seeing it: gbtribune.com/sportsnews.php?sid=7c7387d

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Self-rightous anger and judgment: unbecoming to Catholics?

Mind-reading? Definitely.

Heart of Jesus, patient and rich in mercy, have mercy on us.
Heart of Jesus, rich to all who invoke Thee, have mercy on us.
Heart of Jesus, fount of life and holiness, have mercy on us.
Heart of Jesus, propitiation for our sins, have mercy on us.
Heart of Jesus, saturated with revilings, have mercy on us.
Heart of Jesus, crushed for our iniquities, have mercy on us.

 

[Matt33]

ESPN Is reporting tha Vick may sign soon. Perhaps the patriots. Figures… I guess we will see how far the fame and dollar status go. Maybe all those fans will “forgive” him like good Catholics and buy what he is selling.
And on the heels of more steroid leaks in baseball and homosexexual slurs in College football.
“Where are all the good men dead, in the heart or in the head?”

 

[joe_clark]

My prediction is Michael Vick is done as a ball player. Any team who touches him will feel the wrath of the fans every time when he comes on to the field. I have no doubt someone will do something. Throw a tomato or worse. Boo for the entire game only when he comes out on to the field. This guy is a bum. You can take the man out of the hood, but he couldn’t help but to go back to that neighborhood of drugs and crime and create dog fights to the death. I believe the animal rights groups will swoop down on any team who touches him. PR will be a disaster. And finally, he needs to complete his duties without any mistakes. Vick will have a target painted on his jersey. The opposing team will think nothing a putting him in the hospital. The pressure will be too great on Vick and the team that reaches for this albatross. Vick is done. Word!