Michael Voris Question

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According to the Catechism, charity demands that we place the best possible interpretation on others’ words or actions. When one immediately goes for the worst interpretation of another’s words–as you have done here with this ridiculous rumor–one sins against charity.

Besides, that’s all moot, because it’s already been made crystal clear to you that there is not a shred of truth to the rumor you began.

That should be sufficient for you to say, “Oops, sorry–I guess I was wrong. I take back what I said.”

Again, for you to consistently rip into a fellow brother in Christ, and then try to justify such awful behavior, is just sad. Everyone who personally knows MV knows what a good soul he is. I don’t know what your motives are behind this personal crusade, but as I said, I’ll pray for you.

Whatever. God bless.
Christine
I think most of us CAF members have experienced at one time or another being attacked to the point of making some comment that we shouldn’t have. Some of us have been hounded and attacked severely for usually nothing more than having a difference of opinion. Now, I have not kept up with all of the conversations on these threads about MV, but I have seen enough to stand up for the unjust treatment that Sirach2 has received. I did see an apology from Sirach2 on the last thread for something that was misinterpreted from one of the MV videos. When some other CAFers listened to that video, they could see where it could have possibly been misinterpreted. Now, I also have to wonder why you didn’t just let all that stuff die on the last thread and start anew. MV supporters felt the need to warn everybody about the bad people who would come here and slander MV. You brought up the claim that someone slandered MV by accusing him of being a “closet homosexual”. That is not exactly, true is it? I later saw where it was implied but not in the way that you purported it to be. Sirach2 joined this thread only after several personal attacks were made against her and to respond to those attacks.
 
I later saw where it was implied but not in the way that you purported it to be.
What are you reading, that you’ve come to this interpretation? Sirach has admitted several times here that she is accusing him of ONCE HAVING BEEN a practicing homosexual.

She’s been told repeatedly that that is FALSE.

The decent person would respond, “Ok, sorry–my mistake. I take it back.”

But she keeps repeating the claim.

And instead of calling her out on her bad behavior–as any true friend would do–you go after the ones who defend MV against these false charges!!! Unbelievable! Talk about things being upside down!

Either way, I’m more than happy to let such vicious rumors die right here and right now. I’d also like Sirach to apologize for having made them in the first place–but I won’t hold my breath.
Christine
 
I don’t think you missed anything! But one would have to define “name-calling”. You’d have to give a specific example of the sort of name-calling you’re objecting to, because I’m not sure I can think of any.

I do know of times Michael has called liberal dissenters out for cowardly behavior, but that is not name-calling, in my book. If someone’s actions are leading the faithful astray and exhibit cowardliness, then I’m all for calling a spade a spade.
Christine
You bring up a good point! I think we should always speak the truth, but at the same time, we should only go so far as necessary.

For instance, I’m not cool with calling someone a “lackey”. Keep it to discussing their actions and words, imo.
 
What are you reading, that you’ve come to this interpretation? Sirach has admitted several times here that she is accusing him of ONCE HAVING BEEN a practicing homosexual.

She’s been told repeatedly that that is FALSE.

The decent person would respond, “Ok, sorry–my mistake. I take it back.”

But she keeps repeating the claim.

And instead of calling her out on her bad behavior–as any true friend would do–you go after the ones who defend MV against these false charges!!! Unbelievable! Talk about things being upside down!

Either way, I’m more than happy to let such vicious rumors die right here and right now. I’d also like Sirach to apologize for having made them in the first place–but I won’t hold my breath.
Christine
Perhaps I have missed something. Most of what I have read is what you keep repeating.
 
For what it’s worth, I think accusations of “scholars think so, therefore X may be gay” are, well… gay. 😛

When I was much younger, I remember getting genuinely upset at someone writing that Sherlock Holmes (a favourite of mine for years!) and Waston were gay.

But at least Holmes and Watson were fictional characters.

Throwing such things around at an apologist who is trying to do his best - not to mention a Saint and Doctor of the Church - is ridiculous and uncharitable. It’s about as absurd as “David and Jonathan were lovers”, which is 100% nonsense. :mad:

As for Mr. Voris being abrasive… well, tastes vary. There is room in the Communion of Saints for both St. Jerome (who could be even more abrasive, have you read Against Jovinian) and St. Francis of Assisi. That is why our church is Catholic - it encompasses all these and more. 🙂

Personally, I’d love to have someone like this in my country; I’ve had more than enough of bad homilies, bad Bible scholarship, “retreats” that are more Pentecostal than Catholic, “social justice”, and people who think building “modern” churches and meeting Government officials are somehow the greatest works of all. 😃
 
Hi YoungCatholic!

I’m put in mind of that scene in Fiddler on the Roof where Tevye is asked to judge an argument.

*Tevye hears one side, strokes his beard, then says “You’re Right!”
The other side makes its case passionately, and Tevye says “You’re Right!”
A bystander, angered comes over and says,
“First you say HE’s right, then you say HE’s right. They can’t BOTH be right!”
Tevye listens, strokes his beard and says “You too … are RIGHT!”
*
I sort of agreed with all the posts above. 😉

You yourself probably can measure your unique audience best. Part of that audience posted the Michael Voris video. You seem to have some neophyte Catholics, or perhaps just-warming-up to their faith people or someone you feel might need more gentle encouragement to move to their next step (my impression, sorry if I got it wrong). So you are discerning what to do. Very Wise.

I laughed at the popcorn eating post. Not much counsel there, but perhaps more prudence than I’m offering. So, more wise discernment.

THEN someone gives you some counsel. Voris is great. Leave it up.

And like Tevye I say yes again.

Watch it once more to discern if the Holy Spirit is in the Voris piece. If it IS … roll with it. Even if people initially draw back. Jesus often challenged others too. And sometimes
a challenge can be the seed of the word.

I remember being “almost offended” when I first began reading Fulton Sheen’s “Life of Christ” due to the authors’ self confidence and certitude … and the fact that he stated facts without a tedious explanation for each (speaking UP to the audience, as if that audience was knowledgeable and ready for the “meat” of the word).

As I went along in the book my question marks in the margin became exclamation points(I began to “get it”).

So my counsel agrees with your “leave Michael up” poster … without criticizing your caution to this point. All the more since YOU didn’t post it, but part of your community did.

If I was you, view the Voris clip yourself, anticipate what (if any!) complaints or questions you might get … and then how to answer them.

I would also counsel - don’t be too quick to remove a good thing at the slightest request. Or to not include something because it’s – too good, too advanced, or states a truth too forcefully.

I’VE HAD TO DEAL WITH ISSUES LIKE THIS IN YOUNG ADULT MINISTRY (background)

I was once President of a thriving Young Adult Ministry in our Diocese. Non-Catholics were allowed to make our retreat-like “weekend” experience - which was a sort of practical demonstration (as well as presentation) of the Catholic faith and a graduated call to a deeper, more adult and committed faith life.

Our diverse group was a blessing and a curse sometimes (I speak only of the difficulty of what to do NOW with a diverse group).

**Strong Catholics hungry for MORE - **had to endure or roll with the gentle icebreaking, introductions, and non-profound Friday night program which featured an almost secular “Who am I?” talk/sharing by a peer. Love of God evidenced - but by design - no high theology YET.

Nominal Catholics, “Christian” non-Catholics, and the willing unChurched - had to
stretch their comfort zones as each sharing on Saturday and Sunday moved to a deeper level. Pretty quickly too.

Sometimes we’d have visiting priests (not on the retreat to get a feel for who they had with them) come in to do a mass for us.

I DO remember hearing what would have been a great “Super Catholic” call to greatness by a priest … who criticized a sort of phony Christianity. He probably also meant uncommitted Catholics, but it came across to some as considering “other Christian denominations” as “wrong, VERY wrong.”

He may not have known about our policy and that about 8 of our candidates were non-Catholics. Some of these folks were REALLY attracted toward being with us … until Fathers’ sermon - coupled with their confusion about not being able to receive communion (not always well explained beforehand in our ministry) 😦 But we did “lose” or seemed to lose some people.

Who knows though, maybe the seeds he sowed that day have born fruit by now.

YOU may have the job of trying to keep it all together. But the Holy Spirit knows how to do that. And in general … high standards (not impossible however, lol) are better than going with the “lowest common denominator” when we are doing the Lord’s work.

One strategy you might employ re:Voris. Use it as a conversation starter. A “What do you think?” on the matter. Put it neutrally. Then challenge both sides (unless there is NO controversy … then just smile).

“That Michael Voris piece that a member posted SURE got some important discussions going. What did you like about it? Do you think it’s too heavy for beginners or a good challenge?”

That way you don’t step on the member who showed leadership in bringing a good thing to your organization; but you modify the hows and wheres and even IFs of whether the presentation will: always be up, up for a short period of time, judged not appropriate (for now), or not-right-for-us.

God bless you YoungCatholic for stepping out and being a leader!
Interesting that you should mention Bishop Sheen. He appealed to the Catholics of the
‘50s, because he reflected the confident mood of Catholics at that time. And he had a TV show that appealed to millions. But he was a failure as archbishop of Rochester, because the mood had changed. Many Catholics had been persuaded that the Council had said, well, we cannot say that we are right and they are wrong, and who are the bishops to tell us what is or is not right. Liberalism, not in the political but in the theological sense, was in the ascendent. The result was by any objective measure, disasterous. Mass attendance plummetted, Cathiolics adopted the same sexual morality as their pagan friends. Other Catholics, seeing the crisis of confidence in the Church, fled to the fundamentalist churches.
 
Perhaps I have missed something. Most of what I have read is what you keep repeating.
Maybe you need to scroll up in this very thread and read Sirach’s comments, in which she repeats her claim. Or you can visit the other thread, where she also repeats her claim several times. Veridical called her out on it here, so clearly I’m not the only one who’s noticed.

In any case, I’m glad that you at least recognize that the rumor she started was not appropriate.
Christine
 
Throwing such things around at an apologist who is trying to do his best - not to mention a Saint and Doctor of the Church - is ridiculous and uncharitable. It’s about as absurd as “David and Jonathan were lovers”, which is 100% nonsense. :mad:
Agreed 100%.
Christine
 
Maybe you need to scroll up in this very thread and read Sirach’s comments, in which she repeats her claim. Or you can visit the other thread, where she also repeats her claim several times. Veridical called her out on it here, so clearly I’m not the only one who’s noticed.

In any case, I’m glad that you at least recognize that the rumor she started was not appropriate.
Christine
Christine,

I read her comments and whether or not I agree with her, they are quite different from what you are making them out to be. It seems to me that what you are doing to Sirach2 is exactly what you are accusing her of doing to MV. What I find most disturbing is that you won’t let it go. You keep rehashing it and spreading it further.
 
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