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Julia_Mae
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We need more Catholics to be like Christ.
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ConstantineTG
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Said it better than I did. Bravo
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lakotak
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amen, amen, amen!!
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Kirk_O
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We all should strive to be like Christ and He wouldn’t vote for an abortion promoter. Your social justice points can never out weigh the value of our children. Jesus is pro-life and so should you be.
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Ranp
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He promotes the true teachings of the Catholic Church.
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Ranp
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Amen!
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manualman
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I’m frequently astounded at the misinformation sincere catholics are able to swallow whole without noticing. A poster above asserts that presidents no nothing one way or another on the abortion issue so that good catholics can in good conscience base their votes on other moral issues. Seriously?? It’s hard to believe that anyone who pays attention at all can believe this sincerely. Be honest, do you really care 50 million babies have been killed since Roe? Does it really not bother you that the federal government is cutting ties to any organization that refuses to encourage/enable abortion (see recent CRS contract non-renewal story)? Does it really not bother you that catholics will soon be paying for the (probably) abortive “day-after” pills for others via their insurance premiums?
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Kirk_O
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clem456
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There are plenty of people talking truthfully about Catholic issues and doing it charitably, which is what I would imagine Jesus would do (since we are invoking the name of Jesus in this thread).
No need to draw attention to one’s self by fomenting anger and suspicion of “them”
.And just in case no one noticed, he is forbidden -by his bishop- from using the word “Catholic” in his endeavors. As in “Catholic Answers Forum”, like that. That should tell you all you need to know.
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Gorgias
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Voris’ argument seems ill-considered. In a nutshell, he’s saying that pro-Obama diocesan employees should recuse themselves from discussing Catholic voting ethics because they have strong opinions about a candidate… and they support a candidate… and they vote.
That seems patently unfair. Who, then, should present the Catholic position on voting to Catholics in parishes? Someone who doesn’t vote?
His case is simple, but skewed: those who vote for Obama cannot make a presentation on Catholic principles impartially (and therefore, implicitly, it seems, that those who do not vote for Obama necessarily can make an impartial presentation). On the face of it, this is ridiculous. It is as reasonable to suggest that a Romney supporter is likely to skew a Catholic presentation in favor of his candidate.
Now, if Voris were making the case that there is no way possible that a Catholic can morally justify voting for Obama, then he would have a case to make; but that’s not the case he’s attempting to make here.
(The case to make would be that, having made a decision that the Church condemns, they must recuse themselves. Unfortunately, he doesn’t make that case directly; rather, he simply asserts that these diocesan employees “disagree with Church teaching”, without stating what teaching that is. Perhaps he has access to a magisterial document that teaches that one may not vote for Obama?
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Now, one might argue that Romney stands for pro-life causes. However, historically, he seems to be all over the map, going back and forth on various issues surrounding the question of life. If one believes what he says today, then it seems clear what his vote should be. However, if one believes that his current platform statements are untrustworthy, given his past statements considered as a whole, then the question is more complicated; seemingly, there would be reason to justify making a prudential judgment about the candidates at that point. Given this analysis, then, it seems reasonable that Catholics might validly disagree on their choice in the election. In other words, Voris’ argument seems to fail here.
Incidentally, Voris’ suggestion that a questionnaire that identifies doctrinal compliance be used in the hiring process at diocesan offices is fraught with danger: the attempt to utilize it to make hiring decisions would lead to massive lawsuits against dioceses.
That seems patently unfair. Who, then, should present the Catholic position on voting to Catholics in parishes? Someone who doesn’t vote?
His case is simple, but skewed: those who vote for Obama cannot make a presentation on Catholic principles impartially (and therefore, implicitly, it seems, that those who do not vote for Obama necessarily can make an impartial presentation). On the face of it, this is ridiculous. It is as reasonable to suggest that a Romney supporter is likely to skew a Catholic presentation in favor of his candidate.
Now, if Voris were making the case that there is no way possible that a Catholic can morally justify voting for Obama, then he would have a case to make; but that’s not the case he’s attempting to make here.
(The case to make would be that, having made a decision that the Church condemns, they must recuse themselves. Unfortunately, he doesn’t make that case directly; rather, he simply asserts that these diocesan employees “disagree with Church teaching”, without stating what teaching that is. Perhaps he has access to a magisterial document that teaches that one may not vote for Obama?
)Now, one might argue that Romney stands for pro-life causes. However, historically, he seems to be all over the map, going back and forth on various issues surrounding the question of life. If one believes what he says today, then it seems clear what his vote should be. However, if one believes that his current platform statements are untrustworthy, given his past statements considered as a whole, then the question is more complicated; seemingly, there would be reason to justify making a prudential judgment about the candidates at that point. Given this analysis, then, it seems reasonable that Catholics might validly disagree on their choice in the election. In other words, Voris’ argument seems to fail here.
Incidentally, Voris’ suggestion that a questionnaire that identifies doctrinal compliance be used in the hiring process at diocesan offices is fraught with danger: the attempt to utilize it to make hiring decisions would lead to massive lawsuits against dioceses.
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_Abyssinia
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Pope Benedict has said that the principal focus for Christians in politics is protection for life from conception; recognition and promotion of marriage between 1 man and 1 woman and protection for parents to educate their children. He said these are ‘non negotiables’
The question I asked is appropriate because Catholic teaching is one whole - where are the paragraphs in Faithful citizenship I highlighted found in Catholic teaching?
Presidents can not reverse roe v wade, if they are pro life they can elect constitutionalist pro life judges who would. Pro life presidents can pass pro life restrictions which reduce the abortion rate. If Obama is reelected he will elect more of the same judges he has elected in his 1st term who are pro abortion and that will put the reversal of roe v wade back for decades
I want to know where you get the idea that it is acceptable for you to vote as a Catholic for Obama, the most pro abortion president in history?
Do you think there is a proportionate enough reason for you to vote for Obama despite his support for intrinsic evils, that you will be able to face the victims of abortion with a clean heart when you meet them in the next life? As Archbishop Chaput has said
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Kirk_O
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Julia_Mae
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But promoting dissension, anger and distrust of our Bishops isn’t in any way promoting the Church, it’s undermining people’s Faith. And Voris isn’t telling the truth a lot of the time, apparently counting on people not checking his so-called facts for themselves. And if they do, they can’t tell anyone else, because he never allows comments on his vids.
When someone can’t stand to have the comments turned on under his videos, or have any place for public feedback so people who know better can refute him, whatever he is selling can’t stand up to scrutiny.
Seriously, how much has watching Michael Voris increased your faith and sense of peace and joy in following Jesus Christ through His Church?
You know what things are by their fruits. His fruits are dischord, suspicion, anger, and feelings of distrust in the Church. He is an occasion of sin for anyone who watches him. When we start to think Bishops are like politicians we’ve elected and we get to judge them and demand answers from them, we have WAY overstepped and are, in reality, criticizing the Popes.
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Julia_Mae
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You know about the devil disguised as an angel of light?
2 Cor 11:12-15
And what I do I will continue to do, in order to end this pretext of those who seek a pretext for being regarded as we are in the mission of which they boast. For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, who masquerade as apostles of Christ. **And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light. So it is not strange that his ministers also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. **Their end will correspond to their deeds.
Voris is, I am certain, a “nice man.” He probably sincerely believes he is serving God in some way. This is how the devil works, you know. The most effective way: to convince someone that what they do or believe is righteous, when it’s destructive and dark.
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Julia_Mae
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LOL! I shoulda read ahead!Said it better than I did. Bravo
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Julia_Mae
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And I am. I’m waiting for Catholics to be truly and humbly pro-choice and stand outside abortion clinics holding up signs that say,** “If you have your baby I will take it and raise it as my own.” **
And I dioon’t think anyone here is so attuned to the mind of God that they can say exactly what Jesus would do. But I doubt He’d be voting or involved in the system at all. He’d be too busy eating dinner with the homeless, I imagine.
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Julia_Mae
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Can you provide a quote please, I don’t recall anyone saying that.
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Julia_Mae
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Here’s your statement and my answer:
There is nothing what the Pope said that contradicts the USCCB document. Faced with a choice between a President who will not stop abortion, but will strip the dignity and care from the disabled and elderly, and one who will fight for the elderly, the mentally ill, the disabled veteran, I’m taking the guy doing the most for life. Just as the Pope actually said:
The Pope did not prioritize the protection of the unborn over the protection of the living, at any stage of life. Our judgement, IMO, needs to come down to which will do the most good and the least harm in terms of all the stages of life.
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Lormar
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I’ve never watched this Voris man, but I think you make a lot of excellent points in this post, Julia Mae.
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Seeker1961
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There is a post above that described him as someone who “hates liberals”. Really? This is a person that has room to criticize men ordained by the Church? What room does “hatred” have in our dealings with each other?
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