Microsoft - where is the line?

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friardchips

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Dear Forum posters, where do we stand in the purchase and usage of Microsoft products please, as Roman Catholic Church-goers?

The Pope recently advised that people spend less time at computers but I am asking whether this might in fact be obligatory.

A while back it was stated that the wife of the founder of Microsoft was not going to allow their foundation to pour money into abortion anymore. I did not even know up until then this time that Microsoft had ever poured money into abortion. If I did know, I forgot. I am annoyed that I did, if so.

If I had purchased Microsoft at any time during their foundation putting money into abortion related funds, then doesn’t this mean we have been unconscious consumers, and should bring this up in confession; furthermore, shouldn’t we get our computers blessed, or even get rid of them?

I know that many people feel they can’t survive without or can’t afford Apple computers instead but does this make a difference; after all, if a company was pouring money into euthanasia or into human trafficking one wouldn’t buy from them?!

And isn’t this foundation still pouring money into contraceptives, so by us using their products to any degree or level, surely we are okaying the actions of this foundation?
 
you can confess it if you like, but I think you might be fine.

Microsoft has been practically a monopoly for a while (especially in business). Apple is now starting to seriously challenge them, but it will be a while before Apple takes over in the business field (if ever). Also, it’s unlikely that open sources will take over business applications ether anytime soon.

Additionally, Apple isn’t flawless when it comes to same sex unions, etc.

Computers do more good than harm. If it wasn’t for computers, I would not be able to read Catholic.com. I would not be able to view Symbolon, etc.

As long as we don’t allow technology to replace people in our lives, and as long as we are using the most moral companies possible, we are doing what we can.

Sometimes it possible to avoid a company or product out of conscientious protest, but sometimes it is difficult or impossible. For example, today, it’s very difficult for Americans to avoid being American and avoid paying taxes which may be applied to immoral acts, laws, etc.

I suggest talking to a holy and orthodox priest about your concerns.

God bless!
 
friardchips said:
Dear Forum posters, where do we stand in the purchase and usage of Microsoft products please, as Roman Catholic Church-goers?

The Pope recently advised that people spend less time at computers but I am asking whether this might in fact be obligatory.

A while back it was stated that the wife of the founder of Microsoft was not going to allow their foundation to pour money into abortion anymore. I did not even know up until then this time that Microsoft had ever poured money into abortion. If I did know, I forgot. I am annoyed that I did, if so.

If I had purchased Microsoft at any time during their foundation putting money into abortion related funds, then doesn’t this mean we have been unconscious consumers, and should bring this up in confession; furthermore, shouldn’t we get our computers blessed, or even get rid of them?

I know that many people feel they can’t survive without or can’t afford Apple computers instead but does this make a difference; after all, if a company was pouring money into euthanasia or into human trafficking one wouldn’t buy from them?!

And isn’t this foundation still pouring money into contraceptives, so by us using their products to any degree or level, surely we are okaying the actions of this foundation?
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In our house, we try to use open source software which is free and doesn’t support abortion, and other agendas, etc. While we do own an apple device and use google, at least we are not supporting the worst EVIL of ABORTION!!!
 
phil19034 said:
you can confess it if you like, but I think you might be fine.

Microsoft has been practically a monopoly for a while (especially in business). Apple is now starting to seriously challenge them, but it will be a while before Apple takes over in the business field (if ever). Also, it’s unlikely that open sources will take over business applications ether anytime soon.

Additionally, Apple isn’t flawless when it comes to same sex unions, etc.

Computers do more good than harm. If it wasn’t for computers, I would not be able to read Catholic.com. I would not be able to view Symbolon, etc.

As long as we don’t allow technology to replace people in our lives, and as long as we are using the most moral companies possible, we are doing what we can.

Sometimes it possible to avoid a company or product out of conscientious protest, but sometimes it is difficult or impossible. For example, today, it’s very difficult for Americans to avoid being American and avoid paying taxes which may be applied to immoral acts, laws, etc.

I suggest talking to a holy and orthodox priest about your concerns.

God bless!
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I appreciate your considered response. Thank you. I thought this though: imagine if there was a wide-world protest by all Christians by not using Microsoft-related products. This might drive the message home that indeed all people’s opinions matter, not just those who hold the money and power cards! Not that I am trying to tell others what to do - we can only obey our consciences as we can see and understand them. It would certainly be very hard to imagine a world in which computers were not used. But not impossible. The world existed before. Not everything is inspired from the right direction although I don’t necessarily think computers wouldn’t have been existed if this or that individual hadn’t thought of the idea. It might just be the course an idea takes that differs.

Another question to ask I suppose would be whether the foundation in question was funded by money from Microsoft - it might be that the money is separate?!

I might bring it up in confession. The thing is that most religious organisations have computers too and so it might be something new to them - the idea of giving them up or lessening their usage. It might be a good idea for a clever Church-goer to invent a new computer system that all Christians could use without their money being tied to such anti-life endeavours?!

In terms of choosing the better evil. Not sure. Avoiding the payment of taxes is a social sin but not sure abstaining from computer-usage is. Yet, people use computers at work, and so if one relied on it to feed their family then one wouldn’t simply give up their job. So I get the point.

I don’t know much about Apple but might be good to know a bit more.

🙂
 
Cath4life said:
In our house, we try to use open source software which is free and doesn’t support abortion, and other agendas, etc. While we do own an apple device and use google, at least we are not supporting the worst EVIL of ABORTION!!!
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Hello! Thanks for your reply! 🙂 I am not particularly conversant with computer talk although not a total beginner, so what do you mean by “open source” please? Is this an alternative to Microsoft Windows or the actual Microsoft computer hardware?

Sure, I think abortion is one of the worst issues, if not the worst. I agree. Definitely this is avoiding the worst evil. Then comes euthanasia. Also genetic fiddling is awful - I think more of this stuff goes on than we realise. But if Apple are supporting SSA marriages then this is serious too. There are so many evil consequences. The problem is also that all computers tend to be microsoft or Apple technology. If only there was another solution.
 
friardchips said:
I appreciate your considered response. Thank you. I thought this though: imagine if there was a wide-world protest by all Christians by not using Microsoft-related products. This might drive the message home that indeed all people’s opinions matter, not just those who hold the money and power cards! Not that I am trying to tell others what to do - we can only obey our consciences as we can see and understand them. It would certainly be very hard to imagine a world in which computers were not used. But not impossible. The world existed before. Not everything is inspired from the right direction although I don’t necessarily think computers wouldn’t have been existed if this or that individual hadn’t thought of the idea. It might just be the course an idea takes that differs.

Another question to ask I suppose would be whether the foundation in question was funded by money from Microsoft - it might be that the money is separate?!

I might bring it up in confession. The thing is that most religious organisations have computers too and so it might be something new to them - the idea of giving them up or lessening their usage. It might be a good idea for a clever Church-goer to invent a new computer system that all Christians could use without their money being tied to such anti-life endeavours?!

In terms of choosing the better evil. Not sure. Avoiding the payment of taxes is a social sin but not sure abstaining from computer-usage is. Yet, people use computers at work, and so if one relied on it to feed their family then one wouldn’t simply give up their job. So I get the point.

I don’t know much about Apple but might be good to know a bit more.

🙂
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Here is an open source link for more info 🙂

openoffice.org/why/
 
friardchips said:
Hello! Thanks for your reply! 🙂 I am not particularly conversant with computer talk although not a total beginner, so what do you mean by “open source” please? Is this an alternative to Microsoft Windows or the actual Microsoft computer hardware?

Sure, I think abortion is one of the worst issues, if not the worst. I agree. Definitely this is avoiding the worst evil. Then comes euthanasia. Also genetic fiddling is awful - I think more of this stuff goes on than we realise. But if Apple are supporting SSA marriages then this is serious too. There are so many evil consequences. The problem is also that all computers tend to be microsoft or Apple technology. If only there was another solution.
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You are right about SSA lifestyles and most companies are definitely supporting them, ie. Apple, google, etc… That is the challenge. However, do what you can do, boycotting is not easy. But, some companies can definitely be avoided. Try to support the local mom & pops (Catholic bookstores, video providers, shop, etc) Those companies that support the common good.
 
Cath4life said:
You are right about SSA lifestyles and most companies are definitely supporting them, ie. Apple, google, etc… That is the challenge. However, do what you can do, boycotting is not easy. But, some companies can definitely be avoided. Try to support the local mom & pops (Catholic bookstores, video providers, shop, etc) Those companies that support the common good.
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Local video providers have closed down now. Everything is huge chain company superstores. And Amazon. For the average consumer, shop street prices are greedy no doubt due to increased business rates. But certainly increasing in conscientious buying is a start! Thanks! Might be good at some point if the Church were to write a list of the monopoloy companies that do promote certain evil activities. This way, we would know where to look and where not to.
 
friardchips said:
I missed this post. Great stuff, Cath4life! Thank you muchly, will have a read! So far, it solves some of the issues as I could substitute Micro… Offi… for this! Yay! :extrahappy: 👍🙂
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You’re very welcome 🙂 There is a bit of a learning curve, but it is all very similar. If you like photoshop, you can also substitute for open source GIMP (photo and graphics software). You don’t have to replace your hardware as you already paid for it anyway…
 
I’ve always got to consult the diagram to remember the proper terms for this kind of position, but as I recall, we’ve got remote material cooperation in evil, and morally it’s a toss-up. If you feel the good outweighs the bad effect, and you don’t directly intend evil, and there are no viable alternatives, then go ahead.

I patronized Starbucks on a semi-weekly basis for years, because my other friends had decreed it as the meeting-place for our group. But I campaigned long and hard for a change in venue, and finally a suitable place presented itself, and was accepted by the whole group.

As a general principle I prefer small local business to big faceless corporations, but I have submitted to many who now have their hooks in me, such as Google and Facebook. I’m not too happy with the corporate ethics/policies there, but the alternatives are few.

I think with computers it’s not so much cooperation in evil but relinquishing privacy that we should be concerned with. Especially on our phones and tablets, the mobile platform is rife with invasions that could be problematic if control fell into the wrong hands. And since last week’s SCOTUS decision, Americans in particular should be wary of increasing surveillance and persecution as a way of life for people of the wrong kind of faith.
 
Cath4life said:
You’re very welcome 🙂 There is a bit of a learning curve, but it is all very similar. If you like photoshop, you can also substitute for open source GIMP (photo and graphics software). You don’t have to replace your hardware as you already paid for it anyway…
Click to expand...
I don’t know about Adobe, Cath4Life, in terms of who they are or what they represent, as I’m not sure they make a lot of noise, commercially, in that way.

I have heard about GIMP. From a practical POV, are they more cost effective than Adobe?
 
Elizium23 said:
I’ve always got to consult the diagram to remember the proper terms for this kind of position, but as I recall, we’ve got remote material cooperation in evil, and morally it’s a toss-up. If you feel the good outweighs the bad effect, and you don’t directly intend evil, and there are no viable alternatives, then go ahead.

I patronized Starbucks on a semi-weekly basis for years, because my other friends had decreed it as the meeting-place for our group. But I campaigned long and hard for a change in venue, and finally a suitable place presented itself, and was accepted by the whole group.

As a general principle I prefer small local business to big faceless corporations, but I have submitted to many who now have their hooks in me, such as Google and Facebook. I’m not too happy with the corporate ethics/policies there, but the alternatives are few.

I think with computers it’s not so much cooperation in evil but relinquishing privacy that we should be concerned with. Especially on our phones and tablets, the mobile platform is rife with invasions that could be problematic if control fell into the wrong hands. And since last week’s SCOTUS decision, Americans in particular should be wary of increasing surveillance and persecution as a way of life for people of the wrong kind of faith.
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I’m in the U.K. But we come under the spying radar still. In terms of privacy, it is certainly mobile technology that is the worst hit. In a way I mind, in a way I don’t. The reasons I don’t are because I don’t have an app. mobile and so it doesn’t affect me. And I don’t miss it. And the other reason I don’t mind is because I think that mobile phone technology plays havoc with real social interraction. And so, if spying agencies are going to be self-defeating by putting people off using mobile technology, whilst relying on mobile technology to be able to spy in the first place, then a stale mate occurs for the negative aspects and we have a win for the better.

The other thing, is that Microsoft have been pushing Windows 10 on people in order to use on their home computers. Mic. 10 uses mobile app. technology (I think) and so it might be the case that if people download and use Mic. 10 they are leaving themselves open more fully to mobile phone technology spying.

In terms of Facebook and social-networking sites, they were started for less than moral reasons (if the film is true). The film was honest at least if so. I would never have minded FB and Twitter if they were for business only. But the social side of these is again something which people can do without. But companies have made populations feel as if they are social outcasts if they don’t join in. They are no good, IMO. And I feel no magnetic pull towards them in any way whatsoever. Cut the wire! 😉

The reason I don’t like the whole spying thing is because it is making people live even more within the coma of fear. A world run by fear-inducing bureaucrats, from politicians to civil-servants, the world over.

Whether we have a choice, well, I think we do. It is whether we are prepared to go to such lengths to achieve the freedom necessary to be fully engageable due to being in possession of our personal integrity. And these little changes can come about gradually in steps towards making more dramatic lifestyle changes.

If you have something called SCOTUS then we will have soon, probably.

I would still like a list of big company politics. I wonder if someone has a current gem of a list somewhere.
 
I thrive on social networking. I suppose you could say I am addicted, but if anything it is a beneficial dependency. I use Facebook, Twitter and others to evangelize and be evangelized. I keep up with all Catholic news and events, local, national, and worldwide, through social networking. I keep up with my Catholic friends, local and remote, through Facebook. It is no substitute for personal interaction, and I don’t pretend it is, but it is an invaluable supplement, far more powerful than email or telephone or any other technology.

In fact I believe that Catholics have an obligation to use social networking as much as possible in the service of evangelization. We need to use every tool in our reach to preach the Gospel. If you’re on Facebook and you’re only sharing cat videos or selfies, ur doing it rong.
 
Elizium23 said:
I thrive on social networking. I suppose you could say I am addicted, but if anything it is a beneficial dependency. I use Facebook, Twitter and others to evangelize and be evangelized. I keep up with all Catholic news and events, local, national, and worldwide, through social networking. I keep up with my Catholic friends, local and remote, through Facebook. It is no substitute for personal interaction, and I don’t pretend it is, but it is an invaluable supplement, far more powerful than email or telephone or any other technology.

In fact I believe that Catholics have an obligation to use social networking as much as possible in the service of evangelization. We need to use every tool in our reach to preach the Gospel. If you’re on Facebook and you’re only sharing cat videos or selfies, ur doing it rong.
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Yes, that is the other way of looking at it. But it sounds as if you are using it in a different way other than the worldly way. Nevertheless, it is still no substitute for real life and evangelisation. I am being a hypcrite right now but only due to my present situation. Real life, real interraction is absolutely non-substitutable (I think that’s a word).

In fact, I’m not even sure Catholics have to get online. Let the world do it. If Catholics got on with other things instead then we would be more productive. Why do we have to go to the internet because this might actually be the spirit of the world to do so. I used to think the same - that to go out and evangelise on the net was like meeting the Samaritan Woman at the proverbial Well. But I don’t think so now. As time has gone by, I have changed my opinion, in that, I believe the internet is just an era-craze. You won’t convert online. In actual fact, we are called literally to go out to the well.The drama will calm. We will always have the net but it won’t always be considered the heartbeat of civilisation. Heartbeats are found in the real company of people.
 
friardchips said:
I don’t know about Adobe, Cath4Life, in terms of who they are or what they represent, as I’m not sure they make a lot of noise, commercially, in that way.

I have heard about GIMP. From a practical POV, are they more cost effective than Adobe?
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GIMP is free VS. Adobe which is usually in the hundreds $$. For GIMP you can borrow the manual from most county libraries and/or online on their support forums.👍
 
Cath4life said:
GIMP is free VS. Adobe which is usually in the hundreds $$. For GIMP you can borrow the manual from most county libraries and/or online on their support forums.👍
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Brilliant. I never knew this. I’d heard of GIMP but thought it was probably just another costly program. So now GIMP and Open Office cancel out the need for monopoly companies which can’t be a bad thing. I think Adobe never needed to put their prices so high. But to be honest, they relied on companies who would then need licenses for all their equipment. I actually think it is very wrong for companies to dominate a market and not drop their prices. At least with supermarkets, they tend to try and keep the consumer happy. But Apple in terms of pricing, and Adobe, are simply dreadful. Apple products too, the laptops at least, are not built to last. Adobe also took over Macromedia and so they literally swamped the market after that. And I think this kind of behaviour in business sets a bad example because it dictates a kind of edict for consumerism - that gimmicks, spending and art somehow go together, are connected. In my mind, the art world has attracted a particular kind of superficial manipulative thinking behind it. One of the reasons maybe, that graphic design seems to reflect the tone of the secular media! (I know I’m making massive generalisations but stereotypes often come about for a reason).

Your posts have been very helpful so far!

👍👍👍
 
friardchips said:
Brilliant. I never knew this. I’d heard of GIMP but thought it was probably just another costly program. So now GIMP and Open Office cancel out the need for monopoly companies which can’t be a bad thing. I think Adobe never needed to put their prices so high. But to be honest, they relied on companies who would then need licenses for all their equipment. I actually think it is very wrong for companies to dominate a market and not drop their prices. At least with supermarkets, they tend to try and keep the consumer happy. But Apple in terms of pricing, and Adobe, are simply dreadful. Apple products too, the laptops at least, are not built to last. Adobe also took over Macromedia and so they literally swamped the market after that. And I think this kind of behaviour in business sets a bad example because it dictates a kind of edict for consumerism - that gimmicks, spending and art somehow go together, are connected. In my mind, the art world has attracted a particular kind of superficial manipulative thinking behind it. One of the reasons maybe, that graphic design seems to reflect the tone of the secular media! (I know I’m making massive generalisations but stereotypes often come about for a reason).

Your posts have been very helpful so far!

👍👍👍
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You’re right, all these BIG companies keep charging exorbitant prices for their products and we continue to have to pay for it. I’m always looking for ways to boycott the big guys (whenever possible!.. Blessings and Have a great day!!
 
Cath4life said:
You’re right, all these BIG companies keep charging exorbitant prices for their products and we continue to have to pay for it. I’m always looking for ways to boycott the big guys (whenever possible!.. Blessings and Have a great day!!
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Thank you, Cath4life! And you!

:blessyou:
 
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