Middle-aged pout

[JLCecilia]

I may have mentioned recently that my brother was hounding me on the phone for a visit and I quit taking his calls because it was becoming excessive and he doesn’t get along with my children. Thank goodness he lives 3 hours away, it makes him more avoidable. I TT my dad yesterday and he said my brother came to meet him and mom for 8:00 mass yesterday, but turned them down for breakfast afterwards. Then mom and dad went to his place to visit him after breakfast and he wouldn’t come to the door. He called my brother’s fiance who said he’s basically mad at the world. Ok, good, it isn’t just me.

I feel bad for him b/c I can relate somewhat to his childish behavior and issues with anger, and while you make others around you suffer for sure, nobody suffers more than you. My mom told me years ago when my brother was going through his divorce and losing his kids that he was hospitalized for a suicide attempt, he’s been to jail for domestic violence and I’ve even seen his short fuse with my own children very recently. He’s very uncharitable toward my parents (who have let him live rent-free for years) and he has no direction in his life. No stable job, in and out of school and living beyond his means. The priest he and his fiance visited for pre-cana 2 years ago advised against marriage b/c of his emotional baggage, so they are still engaged.

The poor man is really in a rut and I can say from my own experience and observation that he suffers a great deal with pride, an ugly flaw that runs in our family. I just can’t even begin to wrap my head around it.

 

[Glomung]

It’s a hard thing to deal with. He has had some hard breaks in his life, probably of his own doing, which makes life unpleasant for him, hurts his feelings and ego, so to him life stinks. That puts him in a foul mood, which makes others respond to him in a less than friendly manner, which will make his mood worse. It feeds on itself and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

He needs to clear his head, give up the past, deal with his issues, and move ahead.
But nobody who is in that place in their life wants to hear that. You mention pride, that can be a real terror to overcome. For the proud, nothing is ever their fault, and no matter how absurd their behavior, they will find some excuse for it.

It sounds like he desperately needs someone to be a good friend to help him see his situation more clearly and do what is necessary to get on with life.

 

[Allegra]

If your brother wants to visit with you, why don’t you invite him? If he isn’t good around your kids, why don’t you go out for dinner or lunch or a movie? If he lives three hours away, you hardly get to see him anyway.

 

[JLCecilia]

I’ve thought about this for awhile just with my mom. When she was over last week (she also lives 3 hours away), as we were driving around for a parking spot at my son’s Christmas program, she was talking so incessantly, I lost focus and swiped the side of my van. Between her and my brother, it’s pretty clear they would both do better if I just took them out to dinner and had one-on-one time while DH watched the kids (basically just sit there and listen to their problems).

They would both insist on taking the kids along so they could see them and then proceed to alienate my kids or be extremely bothered by their presence if I’m unable to give them (mom/brother) my full attention. It’s frustrating to me that they both act like one more child just clamoring for my attention.

Their visits stress me out so much. I can deal with visits from my mom if dad accompanies her b/c he can buffer mom’s shenanigans. I talk to my dad every week on the phone, but my mom NEVER asks for him to hand her the phone. She really relies on dad to be the catalyst for connection.

Oi vey. Perhaps you can see why I avoid them both.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

They would both insist on taking the kids along so they could see them and then proceed to alienate my kids or be extremely bothered by their presence if I’m unable to give them (mom/brother) my full attention. It’s frustrating to me that they both act like one more child just clamoring for my attention.

They may insist on taking the kids, but you’re the one who actually takes them. If you take charge of the situation, maybe you won’t have a problem. You call them up and say that you’d like to get together for dinner. “Are you available next Saturday? Ok good, I’ll pick you up at 5:00 Mom. Brother, I’ll meet you at the Olive Garden in City-Between-Us. I’ll make the reservations.” Then just make reservations for 3 without telling them and show up. When they arrive, you can say that the kids weren’t able to come. It will be too late for them to insist on anything.

Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that they still try to insist on the kids’ presence in the planning of the get together. Think of their insistence as nothing more than a conversational annoyance to be gotten around. Just because they want it, doesn’t mean you have to agree to it. You can be non-committal, and say things like, “ok, we’ll see” if they don’t take no for an answer. No matter how the conversation ends, you still don’t have to bring the kids when the time comes. Unless you’re meeting at someone’s house, and they have prepared for a lot of children, you’re really not putting anyone out by their last minute lack of attendance. Another reason why it is good to meet at a restaurant. Something can come up / someone can be not feeling well / someone can have an urgent need to be taken care of / the kids could be grounded for the weekend / etc… Don’t lie, but with a little creativity, you can usually come up with an honest excuse. Or if you’re feeling sturdy, don’t give explanations and just say, “I’m sorry, it turns out they couldn’t come” and change the topic.

They sound like difficult people to be around, but not necessarily abusive. In this case, if you can have contact without being harmed, it would seem to be the right thing to do. Give them that respect of an occasional meeting, if it has to be without the kids, so be it.

Another thought though - do their visits stress you out because you have unrealistic expectations? Are you expecting them to behave like thoughtful, other-centered people, when in fact they are self-centered? Is it possible that you can adjust your expectations ahead of time, knowing that you aren’t going to get much out of the visit, and come away from the visit less stressed because you haven’t been disappointed? For that matter, are they saying things that are damaging or scandalous to your kids, or do they just not interact with them in the way you wish they would? Perhaps it wouldn’t be such a bad thing to include the children in your visits and just plan ahead to not be surprised when they don’t interact with them and you in an ideal way. Another way to do that would be to invite them to your house for dinner, and excuse the kids to go play. Let your husband be the one who watches the kids and fields their interruptions, so you can talk with them for a short time. I’m thinking that while it’s understandable not to want to hang out with them frequently, if there isn’t abuse or scandal, it might be more charitable of you to set aside an occasional afternoon or evening to spending with them, for the sake of showing them Christian love and kindness.

Not saying I know for sure - I’m not in your shoes. But these are some ideas.

 

[JLCecilia]

You are right. I really have to muster up the nerve for a visit, but I normally feel alright about it when it’s said and done. I know perfectly well that I won’t get much from it other than lending an ear. I’m not really willing to meet them halfway for and hour lunch, I’d spend more time travelling than visiting. If we head their direction or they head mine, it’s really committal. They wouldn’t come to town and NOT come to my house. If anything, I could schedule to meet at my place and head a half hour south to eat and run around so by the time we get back, they only have a short visit with my kids before it’s time for them to hit the road. Now I’m convicted that I need to loosen up and give up my precious schedule.

 

[Irishmom2]

I may have mentioned recently that my brother was hounding me on the phone for a visit and I quit taking his calls because it was becoming excessive and he doesn’t get along with my children. Thank goodness he lives 3 hours away, it makes him more avoidable. I TT my dad yesterday and he said my brother came to meet him and mom for 8:00 mass yesterday, but turned them down for breakfast afterwards. Then mom and dad went to his place to visit him after breakfast and he wouldn’t come to the door. He called my brother’s fiance who said he’s basically mad at the world. Ok, good, it isn’t just me.

I feel bad for him b/c I can relate somewhat to his childish behavior and issues with anger, and while you make others around you suffer for sure, nobody suffers more than you. My mom told me years ago when my brother was going through his divorce and losing his kids that he was hospitalized for a suicide attempt, he’s been to jail for domestic violence and I’ve even seen his short fuse with my own children very recently. He’s very uncharitable toward my parents (who have let him live rent-free for years) and he has no direction in his life. No stable job, in and out of school and living beyond his means. The priest he and his fiance visited for pre-cana 2 years ago advised against marriage b/c of his emotional baggage, so they are still engaged.

The poor man is really in a rut and I can say from my own experience and observation that he suffers** a great deal with pride, an ugly flaw that runs in our family. I just can’t even begin to wrap my head around it**.

I’ve thought about this for awhile just with my mom. When she was over last week (she also lives 3 hours away), as we were driving around for a parking spot at my son’s Christmas program, she was talking so incessantly, I lost focus and swiped the side of my van. Between her and my brother, it’s pretty clear they would both do better if I just took them out to dinner and had one-on-one time while DH watched the kids (basically just sit there and listen to their problems).

They would both insist on taking the kids along so they could see them and then proceed to alienate my kids or be extremely bothered by their presence if I’m unable to give them (mom/brother) my full attention. It’s frustrating to me that they both act like one more child just clamoring for my attention.

Their visits stress me out so much. I can deal with visits from my mom if dad accompanies her b/c he can buffer** mom’s shenanigans.** **I talk to my dad every week on the phone, but my mom NEVER asks for him to hand her the phone. ** She really relies on dad to be the catalyst for connection.

Oi vey. Perhaps you can see why I avoid them both.

You are right. I really have to muster up the nerve for a visit, but I normally feel alright about it when it’s said and done. I know perfectly well that I won’t get much from it other than lending an ear. I’m not really willing to meet them halfway for and hour lunch, I’d spend more time travelling than visiting. If we head their direction or they head mine, it’s really committal. They wouldn’t come to town and NOT come to my house. If anything, I could schedule to meet at my place and head a half hour south to eat and run around so by the time we get back, they only have a short visit with my kids before it’s time for them to hit the road. ** Now I’m convicted that I need to loosen up and give up my precious schedule**.

So you think all of this is just your brother?

Even if that were so, be glad that you are not him, but show more compassion toward him. He seems to have a lot of issues. Suppose one of your own children were this way, would you want to avoid them as you do your brother?

You are actually blaming your mother for you grazing another car?

Perhaps they do need an ear to listen. If you can’t get that from your own family, who should they get it from?

I think that you are rather harsh in your description of your family without seeing how you sound yourself.

 

[Allegra]

I’ve thought about this for awhile just with my mom. When she was over last week (she also lives 3 hours away), as we were driving around for a parking spot at my son’s Christmas program, she was talking so incessantly, I lost focus and swiped the side of my van. Between her and my brother, it’s pretty clear they would both do better if I just took them out to dinner and had one-on-one time while DH watched the kids (basically just sit there and listen to their problems).

They would both insist on taking the kids along so they could see them and then proceed to alienate my kids or be extremely bothered by their presence if I’m unable to give them (mom/brother) my full attention. It’s frustrating to me that they both act like one more child just clamoring for my attention.

Their visits stress me out so much. I can deal with visits from my mom if dad accompanies her b/c he can buffer mom’s shenanigans. I talk to my dad every week on the phone, but my mom NEVER asks for him to hand her the phone. She really relies on dad to be the catalyst for connection.

Oi vey. Perhaps you can see why I avoid them both.

So, now it’s your mom’s fault you crashed the car? It seems to me that you are having a little bit of a self-centeredness issue yourself. The only offense you seem to be able to charge your family members with is having an socially awkward affect and monopolizing the conversation. Unless there are more abusive behaviors that you aren’t mentioning out of respect for privacy, I’d say that your attitude is quite self-centered, even childish, and not even remotely Christmasy. I have a few family members who suffer from depression and also aspergers. I can’t say that they don’t ever work my nerves, but if I’d ever voiced the option of refusing to be around them when they’ve expressed a desire to spend time with me at Christmas time, I don’t think I could look at myself in the mirror. I’m sorry that you are feeling stressed out at Christmas time, but I really can’t sympathize with your position.

 

[JLCecilia]

Well, I got my unannounced visit from my brother. He came all haggard and ready to unload. Thankfully it was a short visit. We normally avoid the topic of mom, but he got started and really went off. I’m just not sure how to take that. Sorta funny how his take on Christmas and blowing off plans for breakfast w/ mom and dad painted him in a more amiable light. He blamed dad for not giving him enough notice, even though he wasn’t doing anything else that day. He got on the subject of how annoying it was that mom would be up in the middle of the night clomping across the floor upstairs while he was trying to sleep. In DH’s words ‘It’s her house and she can do as she pleases.’ He said THAT’S why he finally got out of there. Well good, whatever reason you need to start supporting yourself at 44 years old. He was getting ticked off that mom has dad take her shopping and then returns everything. Really? What do you care? That’s dad’s problem to deal with, she never asked YOU to take her shopping. And they can afford to spend the money, it isn’t like her shopping habits are causing them to go without food or miss a mortgage payment.

He said he realized he should be a more compassionate, patient son, but he’d really had as much of mom’s dimentia as he could take (as though HE’S a saint to live with). The key thing he said that struck home w/ me is ‘How can I be expected to show compassion to someone who’s never shown ME compassion.’ I can definitely relate to this in my relationship with my mother and I struggle with repeating the same with my own children. But it really doesn’t matter, 2 wrongs don’t make a right. While I can’t sympathize with him, his griping has given me a new view on my mom. Yes, much of her behavior with dimentia is really much of the same stuff we’ve put up with for years, so it’s hard to differentiate between bad behavior and the dimentia. But at this point I think it’s safe to say the she is completely unculpable (?).

I TT dad yesterday and mom went to the local spiritual center for an overnight retreat. She called him to come get her @ 2:30 a.m. She really wants to participate, but her fear is all-consuming.

I realize I’m going to get slammed here for my hypocrasy in speaking of compassion. If I need to TT someone, I will TT my girlfriend, NOT my family. The simple fact that I can’t TT her right the very second I need to gives me some time to cool off. I find if I just journal it and give to God in prayer, that usually takes care of it, but at the same time, I’m don’t have all the issues of dealing with my mom and brother right in my lap EVERY DAY where REAL charity is called for. I guess the bottom line is, I have enough in my lap just with my vocation and work, I don’t need additional unnecessary stresses. My avoiding my family is what my sister calls ‘self preservation’ so that I CAN meet the most immediate demands of my vocation. That may be a little bit of an excuse, but so be it.