Middle East Synod and Israel

  • Thread starter Thread starter jerome_ky
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Where does the name Palestine come from? Are Jews also Palestinians? What is the history of Palestine? Its historical leaders, borders, capital, when did it first gain independence? What were its laws, its institutions, it contributions, its wars? Was Jesus a Palestinian?
Good point. Takes me back to my international law class, when we were debating what comprises the “essence” of nationhood.

Seems to me there wasn’t any such thing as a “Palestinian” until the 1940’s, no? The biblical “Palestinians” were Phonecians, or some group of Indo-European stock, weren’t they?
 
These are not religious questions but we may as well air it out.

To a great extent (although not entirely), modern Israel was populated by illegal immigration of Jews (I understand how and why it happened, considering the holocaust, but we have to take this into account to be fair), and there was terrorism involved. The bombing of the King David hotel being the most notable, killing 91.

The UN resolution was an attempt to achieve peace in a difficult situation by separating the two parties - separate but equal. There is some question whether the UN had the right to establish the State of Israel in the first place. However, I think it was a sincere attempt.

The thing is, it may have not been an ethically balanced decision on the part of the world community, and we are reaping the results of that now.

The population went from being largely Jewish with some Gentiles to largely Christian through conversion, and finally but sadly largely Muslim, but they are essentially the same people, and very likely have a higher percentage of Hebrew/Jewish DNA than the Jews of Europe and elsewhere, which often accepted converts and mixed extensivley with native populations in the places they found themselves.

It is an historical fact that even in Jesus Christ’s day two thousand years ago, the majority of the world’s Jews were living outside of Palestine, and they often accepted converts. Those returning to Israel in the twentieth century simply do not have any more right to the land than those of their very own cousins who occupied it continually all these centuries.

International law has recognized Jewish rights to sovereignty over the Land of Israel and to settlement throughout the land. In April 1920, at the San Remo Conference (part of the post-World War I peace negotiations), the Principal Allied Powers, acting on behalf of the international community, recognized all the land between the Jordan River and the sea, including Jerusalem, as part of the Jewish National Home, based on the Jewish people’s historic rights.

So how can this be illegal immigrations when it was a recognized law, 28 years before 1948?
Hesychios;7320316:
Actually, the Palestinians (mostly Christian and Muslim, there were still also Palestinian Jews in the 20th century) are descendants of the original Jews with continual residence on top of that.
I can agree with you on to some extent but are we supposed to call them Palestinians?
And if we must resort to the religious argument, the Christian community is still the heir of the Promise. Such an argument therefore cannot reasonably be used by modern Jews (of mostly European origin and ancestry) to justify dispossessing the native inhabitants and engaging in the ethnic cleansing practices in the occupied territories even today.
So how long should we advocate Lands for Peace? Until their is no more Lands to give?
The Palestinian Liberation Organization Covenant is an interesting read.
 
Denying the validity of a two-state solution (as those looking to the Bible to justify their claims generally do) is where my problem with his (and with the ultra-Orthodox too, for that matter) statement is.
Actually, the Monsignor is advocating a two-state solution.

melkite.org/Bustros/EB02.htm

Here is an excerpt from the link posted-

**"The message of the Synod for the Middle East takes a moderate position and clearly advocates, regarding the Israeli-Palestinian issue, the two-State-solution:

“The citizens of the countries of the Middle East call upon the international community, particularly the United Nations, conscientiously to work to find a peaceful, just and definitive solution in the region, through the application of the Security Council’s resolution and taking the necessary legal steps to put an end to the occupation of the different Arabic countries. The Palestinian people will thus have an independent and sovereign homeland where they can live with dignity and security. The State of Israel will be able to enjoy peace and security within their international recognized borders. The Holy City of Jerusalem will be able to acquire its proper status, which respects its particular character, its holiness and the religious patrimony of the three religions: Jewish, Christian and Muslim. We hope that the two-State-solution might become a reality and not remain a dream only.” (Paragraph 11)**
 
The idea is gathered from a litany of writings of Church Fathers and doctors, as well as Sacred Scripture and the Catechism. If you are very interested in this image, as you put it, or rather conceptualizing the Promised Land of Christians, then learning about the 8th Day is a good place to start. Christians, technically, worship on the “8th day,” the New Day. Paul’s letter to the Corinthians, especially the second one, is a scriptural foundation for this, wherein he speaks of how all things are renewed in Christ, and how we presently subsist “in jars of clay,” (our present bodies being the clay) and how we inwardly long and groan to shed off this present “clothing” of decay, and to put on the clothing of immortality.

Now the Catechism teaches that death entered the world through sin, and sin did not just have consequences on humanity in creation, but owing to our special place in creation (e.g., Adam’s dominion over it) spread into and through creation from us ; therefore, it is not only man whose physical (but also spiritual) reality suffers from the effects of sin and death, but also all of creation. And if all of Creation is somehow made defective by the consequences of sin, then it too needs to be restored, and hence St Paul’s saying that “all creation” longs for the restoration - pardon me - rather, the “revealing of the sons of God.”

As for the Promised Land of the Old Covenant being a type and prefigurement, such we know is common in the Old Testament. I spoke of how the crossing through the Red Sea prefigured Baptism, and crossing over the Jordan likewise prefigured our crossing over death into the Heavenly Promised Land, as examples. We could further speak of how God’s people, being enslaved in Egypt, prefigures mankind’s enslavement to the world in general, and to the “mighty ones,” (or strong ones) who are tyrrants, authorities, etc. Man’s wordly subjection, expressed especially economically by the primacy and necessity to work and toil (economic tyranny) to a polluted and corrupt government is the misery of man before being enlightened by God and His Christ, wherein man begins to learn to live by Faith once more (i.e., to subsist off mana in the dessert, which prefigures the Eucharist, and the Living Water of the Rock, which prefigures also Christ).

Personally, I believe the world will more and more - owing to the “nature” of sin - dominate man, especially economically, as the Hebrew enslavement to the Egyptians prefigured. This enslavement, though painful to human dignity, nonetheless draws man inwardly out of his worldly infactuations, making him long and groan for release and to desire a restoration of that dignity. Moses, then, prefigures Christ and His Church who stands up to the powers that be for the sake “of his people,” in order that Pharoah might “let them go,” i.e., release them from their bondage. In like manner the plagues upon Egypt prefigure those plagues God shall also send upon the world at the end of times, and the wonders worked by Pharoah’s magicians shall similarly be worked by the Antichrist and his disciples to stall and confuse God’s people, however, this shall ultimately be of no avail.

But returning to your original inquiry, again I advise you to read up on the 8th day, which doctrine is of the Church Fathers, and to study St Paul’s writings in regards to the new creation in Christ, as these are like links and anchors to core Christian teachings that furnish themselves towards the Christian Promised Land, i.e., Heaven, and Heaven on Earth (“Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven”).

I sometimes think of Heaven as “the Undiscovered Country,” the true “New World” that lies just beyond the horizon of our sight. We know from reports of those who have seen it and returned from there that there is indeed such a place, and like the pioneers and settlers of old, Christians believe in the promise of this place, in the hope it carries with it, and we set out to arrive there, even though the journey may be full of perils and dangers.

Pax,
Tim
Yes, several of the early church fathers speak of a 7th day of rest, known as the millenial reign of Jesus Christ and his church over the restored nation of Israel and thus, the earth.

During this time, nature and God’s creation on earth will be restored so that the ‘lion will eat straw as the ox’, as it is spoken of the prophet Isaiah, and people will live for hundreds of years.

During this time all the nations of the earth will come up to Jerusalem to keep the feast of Succot as it is related in the prophet Zechariah. This seems to be the prophetic prefigurement of the eighth day of the new creation when God tabernacles with us as described in the book of Revelations. When as Paul says, 'that God might be all in all".

We must never forget that monotheism began with Abraham and his descendants, and this is the witness and testimony of the Jewish people. Christianity and Islam are children, or brothers of this monotheistic faith. Let us all pray and strive to live in peace with one another.

Shalom.
 
The idea is gathered from a litany of writings of Church Fathers and doctors, as well as Sacred Scripture and the Catechism. If you are very interested in this image, as you put it, or rather conceptualizing the Promised Land of Christians, then learning about the 8th Day is a good place to start. Christians, technically, worship on the “8th day,” the New Day. Paul’s letter to the Corinthians, especially the second one, is a scriptural foundation for this, wherein he speaks of how all things are renewed in Christ, and how we presently subsist “in jars of clay,” (our present bodies being the clay) and how we inwardly long and groan to shed off this present “clothing” of decay, and to put on the clothing of immortality.

Now the Catechism teaches that death entered the world through sin, and sin did not just have consequences on humanity in creation, but owing to our special place in creation (e.g., Adam’s dominion over it) spread into and through creation from us ; therefore, it is not only man whose physical (but also spiritual) reality suffers from the effects of sin and death, but also all of creation. And if all of Creation is somehow made defective by the consequences of sin, then it too needs to be restored, and hence St Paul’s saying that “all creation” longs for the restoration - pardon me - rather, the “revealing of the sons of God.”

As for the Promised Land of the Old Covenant being a type and prefigurement, such we know is common in the Old Testament. I spoke of how the crossing through the Red Sea prefigured Baptism, and crossing over the Jordan likewise prefigured our crossing over death into the Heavenly Promised Land, as examples. We could further speak of how God’s people, being enslaved in Egypt, prefigures mankind’s enslavement to the world in general, and to the “mighty ones,” (or strong ones) who are tyrrants, authorities, etc. Man’s wordly subjection, expressed especially economically by the primacy and necessity to work and toil (economic tyranny) to a polluted and corrupt government is the misery of man before being enlightened by God and His Christ, wherein man begins to learn to live by Faith once more (i.e., to subsist off mana in the dessert, which prefigures the Eucharist, and the Living Water of the Rock, which prefigures also Christ).

Personally, I believe the world will more and more - owing to the “nature” of sin - dominate man, especially economically, as the Hebrew enslavement to the Egyptians prefigured. This enslavement, though painful to human dignity, nonetheless draws man inwardly out of his worldly infactuations, making him long and groan for release and to desire a restoration of that dignity. Moses, then, prefigures Christ and His Church who stands up to the powers that be for the sake “of his people,” in order that Pharoah might “let them go,” i.e., release them from their bondage. In like manner the plagues upon Egypt prefigure those plagues God shall also send upon the world at the end of times, and the wonders worked by Pharoah’s magicians shall similarly be worked by the Antichrist and his disciples to stall and confuse God’s people, however, this shall ultimately be of no avail.

But returning to your original inquiry, again I advise you to read up on the 8th day, which doctrine is of the Church Fathers, and to study St Paul’s writings in regards to the new creation in Christ, as these are like links and anchors to core Christian teachings that furnish themselves towards the Christian Promised Land, i.e., Heaven, and Heaven on Earth (“Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven”).

I sometimes think of Heaven as “the Undiscovered Country,” the true “New World” that lies just beyond the horizon of our sight. We know from reports of those who have seen it and returned from there that there is indeed such a place, and like the pioneers and settlers of old, Christians believe in the promise of this place, in the hope it carries with it, and we set out to arrive there, even though the journey may be full of perils and dangers.

Pax,
Tim
Yes, several of the early church fathers speak of a 7th day of rest, known as the millenial reign of Jesus Christ and his church over the restored nation of Israel and thus, the earth.

During this time, nature and God’s creation on earth will be restored so that the ‘lion will eat straw as the ox’, as it is spoken of the prophet Isaiah, and people will live for hundreds of years.

During this time all the nations of the earth will come up to Jerusalem to keep the feast of Succot as it is related in the prophet Zechariah. This seems to be the prophetic prefigurement of the eighth day of the new creation when God tabernacles with us as described in the book of Revelations. When as Paul says, 'that God might be all in all".

We must never forget that monotheism began with Abraham and his descendants, and this is the witness and testimony of the Jewish people. Christianity and Islam are children, or brothers of this monotheistic faith. Let us all pray and strive to live in peace with one another.

Shalom.
 
Actually, the Monsignor is advocating a two-state solution.

melkite.org/Bustros/EB02.htm

Here is an excerpt from the link posted-

**"The message of the Synod for the Middle East takes a moderate position and clearly advocates, regarding the Israeli-Palestinian issue, the two-State-solution:

“The citizens of the countries of the Middle East call upon the international community, particularly the United Nations, conscientiously to work to find a peaceful, just and definitive solution in the region, through the application of the Security Council’s resolution and taking the necessary legal steps to put an end to the occupation of the different Arabic countries. The Palestinian people will thus have an independent and sovereign homeland where they can live with dignity and security. The State of Israel will be able to enjoy peace and security within their international recognized borders. The Holy City of Jerusalem will be able to acquire its proper status, which respects its particular character, its holiness and the religious patrimony of the three religions: Jewish, Christian and Muslim. We hope that the two-State-solution might become a reality and not remain a dream only.” (Paragraph 11)**
Thanks, Lev23, for the explanation and the link. 🙂

Now the Monsignor’s conclusions seem entirely reasonable to me, even if I wouldn’t get there in the same fashion (i.e., questioning the validity of the covenant between the Jews and G-d.) But that’s an argument for Christians to have, so I’ll leave you to it. 😃
 
Thanks, Lev23, for the explanation and the link. 🙂

Now the Monsignor’s conclusions seem entirely reasonable to me, even if I wouldn’t get there in the same fashion (i.e., questioning the validity of the covenant between the Jews and G-d.) But that’s an argument for Christians to have, so I’ll leave you to it. 😃
No orthodox Christian should ever question the validity of the Covenant, indeed all covenants are in play, and eternal. As Christ said, not one iota of the law will be abolished, certainly this included the covenants.

There’s a question of fulfillment, of the necessity to widen the scope of the covenants. That is, with the coming of the messiah, it was necessary to include the gentiles in the covenant promises. You can see this thematically over and over again in the Torah, Christ did exactly what God said he would do. He brought the Gentiles into the fold, thus necessarily the covenant promise of the land of Israel became quite a bit bigger and wider in scope than was defined to Abraham, or Moses.

Necessarily, it now includes all the Gentiles, and all the lands. That is, Israel is no mere nation, rather it is all the peoples of God.
 
We must never forget that monotheism began with Abraham and his descendants, and this is the witness and testimony of the Jewish people. Christianity and Islam are children, or brothers of this monotheistic faith. Let us all pray and strive to live in peace with one another.

Shalom.
Indeed, Christianity is a child, the child following on the heel of his brother, the child who wears the raimnant and prepares the food that identifies the heir, and is pleasing to the Father. Hence all Christians wear Christ, and are “hid in Christ,” which is prophetically prefigured throughout the Old Testament, starting as early as when God fashioned loinclothes (of lambs’ skin, if I recall) for Adam and his wife in order to cover their shame. The “covering” or “covering over” theme is constant throughout Scripture, as when the blood of the paschal lamb was spread over the doors of the Hebrews in Egypt before the Visitation, and only those houses having the lamb’s blood over their doors were saved (or spared) - whether Hebrew (Jew) or Gentile.

Pax,
Tim
 
Early Jews and Christians in the Holy Land, Palestinians?

Here is one fact, Judea (Iudaea) was the Roman name for the Land of Israel during the prime of the Roman Empire. Judea stretched along both sides of the Jordan and included, besides Judea proper, most of the coastal plain, Samaria, most of the Galilee, the Golan Heights of today and considerable land to the east of there.

The Romans called this land as a whole Iudaea (from the Greek Ioudaia). The land was mainly inhabited by Jews and was ruled by Jews. Therefore, Lord Robert Cecil, acting British foreign secretary, was right to use the name Judea for the whole land in his famous remark: “Our wish is that Arabian countries shall be for the Arabs, Armenia for the Armenians, and Judea for the Jews” (December 2, 1917).

The Roman change of name (Syria Palestina) was part of a complex of related oppressive measures of national desecration, punishment, and oppression. From the start, the name was laden with connotations of Roman hatred for Jewish rebels, the slaughter of hundreds of thousands in the Bar-Kokhba war. Later through the legionaries’ vengeful acts, the ruin of hundreds of Jewish villages and towns, the enslavement of Jewish survivors, expulsion of Jewish people from their homes and lands, etc.

The name Palestine was used and is still being used as an anti Israel slogan. This name was adopted as an official name of a Roman Province, which in its very nature anti-Jewish.

So I ask, should we call them “Palestinian” Jews or “Palestinian” Christians?

Are we, yet again, under the spell of Islamic propaganda?
You teach a strange doctrine.

Christ and His disciples forewarned the people of those days of the danger that was coming, and prophesied the Truth in regards to the Temple in Jerusalem. Those who heeded their warnings were spared for recognizing those signs, and the dangers coming with them, and acting appropriately. Thus they were able to flee as Christ commended they at once do upon seeing those signs.

Now secularly speaking, we have every right to abhor the cruelty of the Romans, who persecuted so many peoples, and Christians also, and permitted themselves in Pontius Pilate to be manipulated by a mob and become the executioners of the gravest crime and injustice in the killing of Christ, but God in His mercy and majesty made this event into a wellspring of Hope and Salvation. God took the Cross which man used to terrorize and threaten his neighbour, and took that symbol of fear and human power and made it into the power of God’s goodness, mercy, and justice. The Roman persecutions of the Christians produced those martyrs whom we hold dear to this day, which the Romans would marvel at, and thereby lead many of them to the Faith.

If we are going to quote international law, then we should not pick and choose, as it were : it is a fundamental human right to possess nationhood, for the writers of the Declaration of Human Rights knew full-well that to rob people of nationhood was to rob them of legal status and protection, and permit them to be treated as chattel or worse. Every human being, therefore, according to the United Nations, has the right of nationhood, and if the Palestinians are not Palestinians, then the onus is upon you to provide them with a nationality that would afford them protection under international law before proceeding to deprive them of the present one they universally enjoy.

Pax,
Tim
 
You teach a strange doctrine.

Christ and His disciples forewarned the people of those days of the danger that was coming, and prophesied the Truth in regards to the Temple in Jerusalem. Those who heeded their warnings were spared for recognizing those signs, and the dangers coming with them, and acting appropriately. Thus they were able to flee as Christ commended they at once do upon seeing those signs.

Now secularly speaking, we have every right to abhor the cruelty of the Romans, who persecuted so many peoples, and Christians also, and permitted themselves in Pontius Pilate to be manipulated by a mob and become the executioners of the gravest crime and injustice in the killing of Christ, but God in His mercy and majesty made this event into a wellspring of Hope and Salvation. God took the Cross which man used to terrorize and threaten his neighbour, and took that symbol of fear and human power and made it into the power of God’s goodness, mercy, and justice. The Roman persecutions of the Christians produced those martyrs whom we hold dear to this day, which the Romans would marvel at, and thereby lead many of them to the Faith.

If we are going to quote international law, then we should not pick and choose, as it were : it is a fundamental human right to possess nationhood, for the writers of the Declaration of Human Rights knew full-well that to rob people of nationhood was to rob them of legal status and protection, and permit them to be treated as chattel or worse. Every human being, therefore, according to the United Nations, has the right of nationhood, and if the Palestinians are not Palestinians, then the onus is upon you to provide them with a nationality that would afford them protection under international law before proceeding to deprive them of the present one they universally enjoy.

Pax,
Tim
What strange doctrine? It is a historical fact. Pre Hadrian Rome calls the land, Holy Land, Judea, the Land of Israel thats a hundred years or so after our Lords Time. I am questioning the very essence of the name “palestine” since it connotes in its very nature, anti jewish sentiments, which by the way is also being used scientifically to avoid religious connotation of the Holy Land.

Yes they were given that chance in 1948, what did the majority of the so called Palestinians did?
 
Ironically, after all is said and done, our Heavenly Father and Creator has a perspective on the land of Israel that needs to be understood by all monotheistic residents of this land.

Leviticus 25:3 “The land shall not be sold in perpetuity, for the land is Mine, and you are but aliens, who have become My tenants.”

1 Chron.29:15 “For we stand before you as aliens. We are only your guests, like all our fathers. Our life on earth is like a shadow that does not abide.”

Hebrews 11:9-10 “By faith he (Abraham) sojourned in the promised land, as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs of the same promise; for he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and maker is God.”
 
…zionism as an ideology (which the Catholic Church OFFICIALLY CONDEMNS)! …
Without addressing the polemic here, can anyone provide documentation of OFFICIAL CONDEMNATION of Zionism by the Vatican?

The request is for magisterial Church statements on Zionism, not opinions.
 
There is a ‘myth’ afoot that the Palestinians, being “Arabs” to our modern mind, are a different people than the Jews of Palestine in the first century, and who somehow entirely swept away the natives and replaced them. I think that most people innocently make that assumption without thinking it through.
I always hate it when someone does this to me, however in this case I feel it is necessary. I have to recommend a book. I do this because it presents evidence in the face of all the “scholars say this” and “history teaches that” statements you have made.

amazon.com/Time-Immemorial-Arab-Jewish-Conflict-Palestine/dp/0963624202/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291850303&sr=8-1

From Time Immemorial was written by Joan Peters, who had started her writing mission to prove that the Jews had no right to the land. She came away entirely convinced on the other side of it. She almost overdoes the amount of evidence she brings to bear, primarily based on 2 points:
  1. (Not counting the Jews who already lived in Palestine) The Jews who lived in Palestine prior to the Second World War PURCHASED the land from Ottoman landlords, sometimes at exorbitant prices;
  2. The bedouin and other Arab immigrants who came to settle the land came to take advantage of the jobs being newly created by the Jewish immigrants.
Read the book, or not, but it makes a heck of a case.

Also, you MUST read some Jewish history. The Jews of the diaspora maintained their Jewish identity in Europe and the Middle East, in spite of tremendous external pressures to convert to Christianity or Islam, by maintaining the Torah and Talmud. I am no fan of Talmud, but it was a centerpiece around which Jewish identity was maintained. I challenge your claim that the Arabs of today are the Jews of yesterday. I would like to see the evidence.

Finally, one huge problem that everyone suffers from is this notion that “Palestine” is the name of the Holy Land and that “Jesus was a Palestinian Jew.” Jesus doesn’t preach the parable of the Good Palestinian, neither does He talk to the Palestinian woman at the well. The land was called Judea and Samaria. It was called Palestine by the Romans following the attempted Bar-Kochba revolution in 135 a.d. For some unknown reason it became a convention to call even ancient Canaan “Palestine.” Jesus did not live in a land called Palestine. The word “Palestine” doesn’t show up ONCE in the Bible.
 
Good point. Takes me back to my international law class, when we were debating what comprises the “essence” of nationhood.

Seems to me there wasn’t any such thing as a “Palestinian” until the 1940’s, no? The biblical “Palestinians” were Phonecians, or some group of Indo-European stock, weren’t they?
It’s just a name.

The place where the natives reside is called Palestine, so we collectively think of them as residents of Palestine, Palestinians. That does not mean they are no longer descendants of their Jewish ancestors.
 
I am no expert by any means. Palestine is a name that originated from the ancient word, Philistine, who were the natives of the southern coast of the region west of Judea. Later, it became quasi-incorporated into the kingdom of Judah under King David and King Solomon. Remember David’s battle against the Philistine giant Goliath? (That was only the beginning of their on-going battle).

When the Jewish nationalist Bar Kochba tried to overthrow the Roman occupation in 132 AD he was eventually defeated in 135 AD. Most of the Jewish population were expelled and became a diaspora. For which the traditional saying during Passover since then, became something like “next year in Jerusalem”.

In 135 AD, Judea was renamed Syria Palestina by the Roman Emperor Hadrian in order to dissociate the name of Judea from the land, this name continues to this day. Jewish Christians who did not participate in the rebellion returned, or remained in the land.
(Hegesippus relates a story of the relatives of Jesus living in the land as Jewish Christian farmers) Non-Jewish Christians from the region also remained, as did non-Christians of the Roman Empire.

Religious Jewish people also settled sporadically, and in small numbers over the centuries. When Islam arose, Muslim Arabs and converts became part of the population of Palestine, as did the Crusaders later on. Regardless, Palestine was never heavily populated, but always has had a mixture of the descendants of Abraham over the centuries. Whether, they be monotheistic Jews, Christian Jews, or Muslim Arabs. (Muslims of the southern coastal region known as Gaza prefer the name Filistine, possibly for geo-political historical reasons).

Secular Zionism has proven to be a wedge that has driven these monotheistic peoples apart, and for that reason I am no longer sure of what I once believed regarding the formation of the State of Israel. (I was a Christian Zionist of sorts and have lived in Israel).

Let us pray for peace and justice for all the monotheistic peoples of the land, and also for those who do not know their Creator.
 
sounds like America, except instead of Arabs, it was taken by Anglos …perhaps this too should be returned to the original inhabitants. we fear that which we perpetrate upon others, thus we are being consumed with a holy war.
 
sounds like America, except instead of Arabs, it was taken by Anglos …perhaps this too should be returned to the original inhabitants. we fear that which we perpetrate upon others, thus we are being consumed with a holy war.
Except the Palestinians aren’t, by and large, “Arabs” in anything other than language. They are the descendents of the native people who were conquered by Muslim Arabs over a millenia ago. Those native people were Christians, and they were descended from the Christian Jews who had lived in the area since the time of Christ.

Peace and God bless!
 
Except the Palestinians aren’t, by and large, “Arabs” in anything other than language. They are the descendents of the native people who were conquered by Muslim Arabs over a millenia ago. Those native people were Christians, and they were descended from the Christian Jews who had lived in the area since the time of Christ.

Peace and God bless!
The “native people” in the area are the Jews. Or, rather, the Jews are the closest thing we’re going to get to “the native people”. The “palestinians” are Arabs, in language as well as culture, and the Arabs didn’t arrive until the wave of colonization following the conquest in the 7th century.

The Jews have been living there since 1000 BC, at the latest. The Arabs came more than 1600 years later. Who’s “the native people” here?
 
sounds like America, except instead of Arabs, it was taken by Anglos …perhaps this too should be returned to the original inhabitants. we fear that which we perpetrate upon others, thus we are being consumed with a holy war.
America was taken by “Anglos” there were no such group that identify themselves as “Anglos” who settled in America. * Early in it’s history, America (both north and south continents) were settled by the Spanish, Portuguese, French, Dutch, Scandinavians, Scot-Irish, Germans not only just the English. And not to forget Africans who brought over through the Spanish and Dutch slave trade. There were quite a few groups from Europe and Africa in America before the formation of the United States of America.*
 
i dont believe the jews are God’s chosen people bcz God is not rascist, he doesn’t choose a certain people and leave out the rest to be “unchosen” and inferior
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top