Might Some Protestants Reject Catholicism Because They Feel It Is Too 'Easy'?

[SpiritMeadow]

In a sense, yes, because the practice of the Catholic faith is a very purifying experience - you can’t go to Confession on a regular basis, consciously avoid grave sin in your daily life, fast on the days appointed, pray and meditate daily, do penance every Friday, and go to Mass every Sunday, without inevitably becoming a better, happier, more disciplined human being.

In most forms of Protestantism, these things are considered “optional,” if they are even available or mentioned at all, so yes, the opportunity to grow in holiness is, in fact, more available, or at least more “in your face” in the Catholic Church than elsewhere.

I think everyone is called to confess regularly, and certainly we are all called to avoid grave sin. We all are called to meditate daily and pray. This is no different than in the RCC. We also fast on holy days. I doubt many do penance every Friday, but when I was a RC, I never was told we were to do that either. I did go to Mass every Sunday,and I go to church every sunday now unless I am some how prevented.

I would suggest that if one does such things out of obedience to a church rather than as a conscience act of desire, then not much is accomplished. Your church orders, mine encourages.

So I see no difference whatsoever. I don’t exactly understand why anyone in the RCC would try to claim such a thing. Holiness is an act of desire and action, and frankly doing without being ordered to is a better reflection on true intent than the other.

 

[GodIsGracious]

SpiritMeadow, rationalize all you want. But leaving the Catholic church for “doctrinal reasons” sure sounds like taking the easy way to me. Rather than conform yourself to the Holy Spirit, you find a church that conforms to you.

At any rate, I’m not here to argue. I do wish you blessings and peace.

 

[The_Question]

SpiritMeadow, rationalize all you want. But leaving the Catholic church for “doctrinal reasons” sure sounds like taking the easy way to me. Rather than conform yourself to the Holy Spirit, you find a church that conforms to you.

At any rate, I’m not here to argue. I do wish you blessings and peace.

And of course you know tens of thousands of godly, brilliant men and women reject RCC doctrine as abhorant and incapable of leading a man to true salvation. That is a sad and sobering thought.

But…regarding being too hard or too easy, I see it as easy in the sense that you do not have to have the Holy Spirit enlightening or energizing you at all to practice the religion of the RCC. You just do it, and you can do it over and over again. You do not need to be regenerated, you do not need to be saved (indeed you can never know if you are saved in the RCC system) But of course, you never measure up to the standards. You just keep trying.

That takes us to the fact that it is also hard…but for a different reason. It is hard because until you see the truth about the atonement and the finished work of the cross, paying for your sins, you cannot be born again, even if you are baptized a hundred times and take mass every day (I had a good friend who did the latter and was dead in his sins until a Baptist pastor showed him the truth of John 3:16). The truth of the cross is incredibly simple, but unless the Holy Spirit opens your eyes to the fact that ALL your sins were punished once and for all on the cross, you can’t be saved. So it is very hard.

And there you have it…it is both easy and hard…in my humble opinion.

 

[GodIsGracious]

1. You really assume quite a bit, don’t you?
2. You’re pretty arrogant.
3. I really do hope for your sake that you are as saved as you think you are.

And of course you know tens of thousands of godly, brilliant men and women reject RCC doctrine as abhorant and incapable of leading a man to true salvation. That is a sad and sobering thought.

But…regarding being too hard or too easy, I see it as easy in the sense that you do not have to have the Holy Spirit enlightening or energizing you at all to practice the religion of the RCC. You just do it, and you can do it over and over again. You do not need to be regenerated, you do not need to be saved (indeed you can never know if you are saved in the RCC system) But of course, you never measure up to the standards. You just keep trying.

That takes us to the fact that it is also hard…but for a different reason. It is hard because until you see the truth about the atonement and the finished work of the cross, paying for your sins, you cannot be born again, even if you are baptized a hundred times and take mass every day (I had a good friend who did the latter and was dead in his sins until a Baptist pastor showed him the truth of John 3:16). The truth of the cross is incredibly simple, but unless the Holy Spirit opens your eyes to the fact that ALL your sins were punished once and for all on the cross, you can’t be saved. So it is very hard.

And there you have it…it is both easy and hard…in my humble opinion.

 

[James1982]

I did not mean to incorrectly paint an incorrect picture of OSAS or Sola Fide, but I am sure you can agree it is hard to address ‘Protestantism’. After all, some Protestants are OSAS, but they believe Faith+something (i.e. Baptism, public affirmation, etc.) is needed to enter into permanent Salvations. Some are Sola Fide, but not OSAS (as you just described). Others are neither OSAS nor Sola Fide (or you get into different definitions of what faith really is).

In terms of the rules being tough:

I think the rules that probably really give people a tough time are:

A) No contraception of any kind (the only exception is sometimes birth control pills are prescribed for other reasons, usually hormonal issues); in fairness, as one who has a strong desire for the Priesthood, this issue does not really affect me. Also, prior to the Anglican allowing of some contraceptives in the 19th century, this rule was pretty universal among all Christians.

B) Weekly Mass is a must (there are some exceptions, but they are just that: EXCEPTIONS)

C) Confession to a Priest is required for mortal sin–for me, my problem on this issue is the opposite of the standard. I am told I go too much (I would probably go every day if the Priests allowed me)

D) No divorcing (although annulments are possible under certain circumstance); again, this rule really does not affect me since I feel a desire for the Priesthood.

But still, compare this to some very fundamentalist groups (i.e. no dancing, no alcohol, no movies/TV/video games, etc.).

To respond to your first comment, I have come around to the idea that while addressing protestant groups as individuals can certainly be difficult, it is the best path to unity. Imagine how annoying it is to have someone address you as if you were another, more annoying, person. Certainly it promotes understanding and friendship more (and increases the chance that the other will drift toward your position) to call others by name and address them as individuals.

You really nailed it on contraception for me (no pun intended)- the Catholic position on birth control would almost be a bigger struggle for me than anything else, I think. I sometimes seem the “reluctant Lutheran” around this forum, but I’m definitely no Catholic on the issue of birth control. That being said, in fairness, many Catholics struggle or openly flaunt Catholic teaching on some of the above matters as well.

What’s better, being a bad Catholic or a good Protestant?

 

[Peter_J]

I won’t argue that you claim to have met Protestants who thought Roman Catholicism too hard. How it is, I am still at a loss to understand. Some here apparently think that it is hard when you have to follow a doctrine that you believe is wrong in your heart. I would suggest that is not hard, it is down right immoral. But that is my opinion.

I think I see what you mean: following a doctrine without really believing it.

Maybe a better way to express the Catholic view would be, it’s hard to accept a doctrine through trust in the Church, when you aren’t able to arrive at it through your own reason.

But I think what people on both sides of this argument are missing is that it’s pretty much the same with Protestants. I mean, isn’t it hard to accept something that the bible tells you, if you aren’t able to arrive at it through your own reason?

Bottom line, I don’t think this issue is so much a real difference between Catholics and Protestants, but rather a stick that each side uses to hit the other over the head.

You may of course believe that everyone not a Roman Catholic is somehow a Protestant but of course many in the Orthodox faith, and other Catholic faiths, to say nothing of the Anglo-Catholic Anglicans, would differ with you.

I quite agree with you there. It would be absurd to say that all Christians are either RC or Protestant.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

SpiritMeadow, rationalize all you want. But leaving the Catholic church for “doctrinal reasons” sure sounds like taking the easy way to me. Rather than conform yourself to the Holy Spirit, you find a church that conforms to you.

At any rate, I’m not here to argue. I do wish you blessings and peace.

As I have said elsewhere, I have the greatest respect for those RC’s that I know who are opposed to the Church on various issues and decide to fight to reform the church from within.

We of course do not agree that it is anything like “conforming to the HS.” The RCC teaches no such thing. One is to study, pray and make every attempt to conform to the Church’s teachings. If one cannot come to believe in them, one is bound to follow one’s own conscience. One can do that within as I have said, or leave for where one’s conscience dictates is the true teaching. I have done the latter.

It is far from easy as you suggest. It was perhaps one of the hardest decisions I have ever made and was made with deep sorrow and grief. Perhaps that is why I am slightly irritated when some suggest it is some “easy” path of self indulgence.

I am aware that there is a small group here who believes in no such thing as personal conscience as such, and if you take that bent, then of course we could never agree. That to me is giving up a precious gift of God and a solomn obligation to serve God.

 

[GodIsGracious]

As I have said elsewhere, I have the greatest respect for those RC’s that I know who are opposed to the Church on various issues and decide to fight to reform the church from within.

First of all, I realize that I have been rather harsh in the way I have presented what I believe. For that, I apologize. I don’t apologize for what I actually do believe.

We of course do not agree that it is anything like “conforming to the HS.” The RCC teaches no such thing. One is to study, pray and make every attempt to conform to the Church’s teachings. If one cannot come to believe in them, one is bound to follow one’s own conscience. One can do that within as I have said, or leave for where one’s conscience dictates is the true teaching. I have done the latter.

This is where we disagree and why I personally believe that people will leave the Truth, the Catholic Church, to go to a church that conforms to them, rather than the person conforming to the Truth.

Please note I never said this was an easy task in and of itself. But I do believe it is “taking the easy way out.” To be Catholic, to follow and conform to the teachings of the Catholic Church, is not easy. It is terribly difficult. I realize that YOU specifically don’t believe this, generally there are quite a few people who DO take the easy way out. They don’t want to confess or acquiesce to what the Catholic Church teaches about birth control.

It is far from easy as you suggest.
It was perhaps one of the hardest decisions I have ever made and was made with deep sorrow and grief. Perhaps that is why I am slightly irritated when some suggest it is some “easy” path of self indulgence.

Note I clarified what I mean by “easy.” A bit about me as an example. I don’t want children. Ever. I have never wanted them. Do you think that I liked hearing that “Maybe you’re just not called to the vocation of marriage” when I told someone about me wanting to be married but I was not open to the possibility of children? (And this isn’t even considering the rudest of remarks I get from “general society” about me, a woman, not wanting children. You’d think I was Satan himself!) Of course I didn’t like it. But to have a valid marriage I must be open to the possibility of children. That’s NOT easy. It would have been “easy” for me to find a church to go “worship” in that could have been more conforming to MY views. I’m sure there are some out there.

But I never did. Instead, I simply stayed away from the Catholic Church. And I promise you it hurt a lot. It hurt to go to Mass and sit in the pew and not take communion. It’s like going to a banquet and not being able to eat. So instead I just stayed away. I believe, I just know, that the Catholic Church is the True church of Christ. I just don’t have a strong biblical “defense.” I never felt I needed a “defense” to be Catholic. So I know that the decision itself to leave is not personally easy, it is easier to leave what appears to be a very tight and rigid system and structure to a far looser structure.

I am aware that there is a small group here who believes in no such thing as personal conscience as such, and if you take that bent, then of course we could never agree. That to me is giving up a precious gift of God and a solomn obligation to serve God.

I certainly don’t take that bent. But I do believe that people’s consciences can be ill formed. I do believe that people can be deluded into thinking they know what the truth is. (I’m not saying YOU, per se, but people in general.) I look at Protestants as being so lost. I’ve said this before, I want to shake some people and say, “Can’t you SEE?? It’s so CLEAR! WAKE UP!” But I have no words to express what I see as clear. And I do realize that as human beings, with our God given free will and consciences, that people are going to do what they do.

To know, and I mean KNOW in my heart and in my gut (again, I cannot explain why I KNOW, but I do) that the Catholic Church is the Truth, and then accept that other people find the “truth” in a Protestant church would be hypocritical for me. THAT would go against my conscience.

You said before that “my” church (it’s not my church, btw) “orders” me to do things. I can see where you get that. I took it that way too. But what I have found is that it can “order” someone all it wants, it doesn’t mean that person is going to comply. I didn’t comply for twenty years. And look where that got me? I thank God I didn’t die. I’d have surely been lost.

So while today, “my” church may be “ordering” me to do some sort of penance, I’m not doing it because I’m being ordered to. I’m doing it as an expression of my faith. An expression and offering it up to Jesus Christ to remind me what He has done for me. Not because I’m being “ordered” to. I was “ordered” for twenty years. I ate meat on Friday nearly “religiously.” It’s an assumption on your part that people do things because they’re being “ordered” to by “my” church. The same can be said for any other person observing some religious obligation. It’s a person’s intent and motive behind their actions that God knows is true. Sure, some are going through the motions. But I see some people in other churches going through the same motions there too.

I also see some other people going to Protestant churches because they’re more “fun.” Great. All I see is they are giving up the body and blood of Christ that Catholics have in the Eucharist … all for “fun.” Awesome. Or whatever other reason they leave the Catholic church to go to a Protestant church. I know people won’t like hearing that, but I’m not going to apologize for what I believe nor my faith. I WON’T deny Christ like that. I did for twenty years and my conscience, along with my soul, suffered greatly for that.

 

[JonNC]

=The Question;5230711]And of course you know tens of thousands of godly, brilliant men and women reject RCC doctrine as abhorant and incapable of leading a man to true salvation. That is a sad and sobering thought.

Yes, it is sad and sobering that there are so-called Christians who judge in this way. There are a number of things I disagree with the Catholic Church on, but their doctrine clearly is a Christian doctrine that leads Catholics to salvation. Your statement is abhorant.

Jon

 

[SpiritMeadow]

First of all, I realize that I have been rather harsh in the way I have presented what I believe. For that, I apologize. I don’t apologize for what I actually do believe.

no apology necessary and you should never apologize for what you believe. The fact that you can state it as your belief is all that is required.

This is where we disagree and why I personally believe that people will leave the Truth, the Catholic Church, to go to a church that conforms to them, rather than the person conforming to the Truth.

Please note I never said this was an easy task in and of itself. But I do believe it is “taking the easy way out.” To be Catholic, to follow and conform to the teachings of the Catholic Church, is not easy. It is terribly difficult. I realize that YOU specifically don’t believe this, generally there are quite a few people who DO take the easy way out. They don’t want to confess or acquiesce to what the Catholic Church teaches about birth control.

I recognize your point. But my point is that they and I don’t agree with you that it is truth they are leaving. If I believed it truth, I would not have left. My heart tells me that the God I know could never ask of homosexuals for instance something he asks of no other group of humans, celibacy for life. Even Paul said it was not for everyone, and was a special gift. So I cannot agree with a Church that teaches that this is disordered. Nothing God creates is disordered. So I don’t find a church that agrees with me, so much as I find a church that recognizes that my conscience is important enough to be recognized as valued. Frankly you point about birth control is interesting, since some 90% of all RC practice it, and think nothing of it. That certainly wouldn’t have caused me to leave should it have been applicable to me at the time.

Note I clarified what I mean by “easy.” A bit about me as an example. I don’t want children. Ever. I have never wanted them. Do you think that I liked hearing that “Maybe you’re just not called to the vocation of marriage” when I told someone about me wanting to be married but I was not open to the possibility of children? (And this isn’t even considering the rudest of remarks I get from “general society” about me, a woman, not wanting children. You’d think I was Satan himself!) Of course I didn’t like it. But to have a valid marriage I must be open to the possibility of children. That’s NOT easy. It would have been “easy” for me to find a church to go “worship” in that could have been more conforming to MY views. I’m sure there are some out there.

But I never did. Instead, I simply stayed away from the Catholic Church. And I promise you it hurt a lot. It hurt to go to Mass and sit in the pew and not take communion. It’s like going to a banquet and not being able to eat. So instead I just stayed away. I believe, I just know, that the Catholic Church is the True church of Christ. I just don’t have a strong biblical “defense.” I never felt I needed a “defense” to be Catholic. So I know that the decision itself to leave is not personally easy, it is easier to leave what appears to be a very tight and rigid system and structure to a far looser structure.

This is a point of disagreement. The RCC does not prohibit marriage between parties one or both of whom is infertile, nor does it ban sex between married couples who have passed into menopause. Frankly, a proper reading of scripture I would suggest would be that marriage has,many goals, only one of which is procreation, and thus I feel the church is wrong to ask this of its fertile married couples. There are health risks involved for some women and I’ve seen them on her say they “take their chances.” I find that appalling frankly.

I certainly don’t take that bent. But I do believe that people’s consciences can be ill formed. I do believe that people can be deluded into thinking they know what the truth is. (I’m not saying YOU, per se, but people in general.) I look at Protestants as being so lost. I’ve said this before, I want to shake some people and say, “Can’t you SEE?? It’s so CLEAR! WAKE UP!” But I have no words to express what I see as clear. And I do realize that as human beings, with our God given free will and consciences, that people are going to do what they do.

Most certainly, any conscience can be ill formed. And thus one is required to study, pray and consult with experts as much as possible to discern the truth. Only when one cannot reconcile one’s own beliefs with the church’s is one OBLIGATED to follow their own belief. I recognize that you are sorry for us, but we feel just as strongly and honestly that we are correct. We cannot see because we simply don’t see it as you do. This is hard to understand…but people actually witht he same sincerity and deep thought, prayer and consultation can believe the exact opposite as someone else. We are thus, just as clear that you are wrong. Our dilemma!

To know, and I mean KNOW in my heart and in my gut (again, I cannot explain why I KNOW, but I do) that the Catholic Church is the Truth, and then accept that other people find the “truth” in a Protestant church would be hypocritical for me. THAT would go against my conscience.

I suppose there is no need to accept their truth. I accept that truth can be found in the RCC on many things, and I accept that many people find truth there. You can I would ask, accept that such Protestants are sincere in their belief and no more desireous of being converted than you would be.

con’t

 

[SpiritMeadow]

con’t

You said before that “my” church (it’s not my church, btw) “orders” me to do things. I can see where you get that. I took it that way too. But what I have found is that it can “order” someone all it wants, it doesn’t mean that person is going to comply. I didn’t comply for twenty years. And look where that got me? I thank God I didn’t die. I’d have surely been lost.

So while today, “my” church may be “ordering” me to do some sort of penance, I’m not doing it because I’m being ordered to. I’m doing it as an expression of my faith. An expression and offering it up to Jesus Christ to remind me what He has done for me. Not because I’m being “ordered” to. I was “ordered” for twenty years. I ate meat on Friday nearly “religiously.” It’s an assumption on your part that people do things because they’re being “ordered” to by “my” church. The same can be said for any other person observing some religious obligation. It’s a person’s intent and motive behind their actions that God knows is true. Sure, some are going through the motions. But I see some people in other churches going through the same motions there too.

I agree, and if polling is correct, the majority of RC’s today are actively ignoring a good deal of dogmatic teaching, so you are correct, ordering does little good. We should all of us do because we feel right in doing so. That is truly following Christ. I raised the issue of ordering, because some suggested that following the RCC was hard because of the rules that must be adhered to, and they were hard. If one is doing so willingly, they are not really hard, at least that is what I have learned. You are correct, many people go through the motions on any number of things. I recall at one of my parishes, it was said that Father wants the mass done in 60 minutes, otherwise people start not coming if it gets too long. That is kinda sad, and denotes that people are not there so much willingly as to get their obligation over with for the week.

I also see some other people going to Protestant churches because they’re more “fun.” Great. All I see is they are giving up the body and blood of Christ that Catholics have in the Eucharist … all for “fun.” Awesome. Or whatever other reason they leave the Catholic church to go to a Protestant church. I know people won’t like hearing that, but I’m not going to apologize for what I believe nor my faith. I WON’T deny Christ like that. I did for twenty years and my conscience, along with my soul, suffered greatly for that.

I guess there are churches that are fun. I find liturgy and mass spiritual food and I find the Eucharist a great necessity in my life. I have no idea why you would think that agreeing at least that Protestants may have as full a faith to them as you believe you have is “denying Christ.” I believe Christ wants us all to be faithful in our dedication to the Way, where ever we are.

 

[Peter_J]

If may say, one of the most frustrating things for me is when people say things like People who become Catholic, do so because they believe it’s the truth; whereas people who become Protestant do so because they want the Church to conform to them. (Or vice versa.)

Sorry if that’s off-topic, but I felt I needed to share how tiresome statements like that are to me.

 

[GodIsGracious]

If may say, one of the most frustrating things for me is when people say things like People who become Catholic, do so because they believe it’s the truth; whereas people who become Protestant do so because they want the Church to conform to them. (Or vice versa.)

Sorry if that’s off-topic, but I felt I needed to share how tiresome statements like that are to me.

And I find it rather tiresome that Protestants condemn Catholics to hell, then preach there is no hell, then preach guaranteed salvation, then preach all sorts of heresies.

 

[Peter_J]

And I find it rather tiresome that Protestants condemn Catholics to hell, then preach there is no hell, then preach guaranteed salvation, then preach all sorts of heresies.

Me too. Especially when they condemn Catholics to hell and then preach there is no hell. (Fortunately, I haven’t experienced that very many times.)

 

[dzheremi]

Hahaha. Oh my. I have never met those Protestants, thanks be to God!

 

[Peter_J]

Hahaha. Oh my. I have never met those Protestants, thanks be to God!

 

[GodIsGracious]

SpiritMeadow, there is a lot to our posts and clearly there are things we (you and I) disagree on. I can accept the fact that people find their own truths, but not The Truth, outside of the Catholic Church. That tells me they feel they know more than those whose full time job it is to discern truth. So I find it interesting that you mention “consulting experts.” The expert I consult? The Catholic Church, which is guarded by the Holy Spirit and founded by Jesus Christ. That’s a pretty darn good expert.

Truth doesn’t change, it stays Truth. Even a logician will tell you that. This is why I know Protestant churches don’t have the truth. Further, just because a whole bunch of people practice something that is against the Catholic Church’s teaching doesn’t mean the Catholic Church should bend to the will of the people. To me, that’s like saying God should accept people for anything they have done. And we know the Jesus does not teach this.

I don’t know how else I can explain that if I were to admit or even believe that Protestants have the truth it would be denying Christ. It would be saying that the Catholic Church isn’t the only one with the truth - which is what you are saying. I’m saying it is the only one with the Truth. And that is why if I said or believed or admitted that Protestants have the full truth is denying Christ. Now, I WILL say that I know that Protestants themselves believe they have the truth, but that’s not saying that I believe they have the truth.

All of that being said, there are some things that I don’t necessarily like about what the Church teaches. I too believe this more to a marriage than breeding - which is one example I used. Where I’m coming from is this: Christ started His Church on Peter. He promised He would be with us to the end of the age. He promised that it would be protected, “the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” I will trust the Holy Spirit before I trust some other man made institution. Which is what protestant denominations are.

 

[jmcrae]

What’s better, being a bad Catholic or a good Protestant?

I think the two of them amount to the same thing - baptized persons who aren’t taking full advantage of the opportunities provided in the Church that Christ has given to them.

 

[jmcrae]

I think everyone is called to confess regularly, and certainly we are all called to avoid grave sin.

In Protestantism, there are no resources to guide you on what might be grave sin, or where to go for help. You can make an appointment with your pastor, but he is a busy man with a family, and you don’t like to bother him with your embarrassing little problems.

With the Catholic Church, there are printed Examens in almost every pamphlet rack, and Confessions are available at least every Saturday, and the priest is there waiting for you - you don’t have to bug him, or pull him away from something that looks important.

We all are called to meditate daily and pray.

Granted, there are more resources for this in Protestant churches than for confession of sins - Our Daily Bread and the like.

The Catholic Church actually provides daily Mass, daily Rosary, and daily Liturgy of the Hours in the church building itself, where you can go and learn how to pray and meditate, and do so with other people, if you choose to.

In Protestantism, or at least in the forms that I’m familiar with, you have these little meditation booklets that you take home with you, and you’re on your own with it - there’s nothing going on at the church to help you, if the building is even open during the week at all, other than the business office, for booking funerals and weddings, etc.

I would suggest that if one does such things out of obedience to a church rather than as a conscience act of desire, then not much is accomplished. Your church orders, mine encourages.

The Catholic Church doesn’t really “order” since they don’t put you on KP or anything like that, if you don’t comply. Rather, it proposes that we do so, and it provides the means to do so - which makes it a whole lot easier to freely choose to do so.

 

[spbill]

SpiritMeadow, there is a lot to our posts and clearly there are things we (you and I) disagree on. I can accept the fact that people find their own truths, but not The Truth, outside of the Catholic Church. That tells me they feel they know more than those whose full time job it is to discern truth. So I find it interesting that you mention “consulting experts.” The expert I consult? The Catholic Church, which is guarded by the Holy Spirit and founded by Jesus Christ. That’s a pretty darn good expert.

Truth doesn’t change, it stays Truth. Even a logician will tell you that. This is why I know Protestant churches don’t have the truth. Further, just because a whole bunch of people practice something that is against the Catholic Church’s teaching doesn’t mean the Catholic Church should bend to the will of the people. To me, that’s like saying God should accept people for anything they have done. And we know the Jesus does not teach this.

I don’t know how else I can explain that if I were to admit or even believe that Protestants have the truth it would be denying Christ. It would be saying that the Catholic Church isn’t the only one with the truth - which is what you are saying. I’m saying it is the only one with the Truth. And that is why if I said or believed or admitted that Protestants have the full truth is denying Christ. Now, I WILL say that I know that Protestants themselves believe they have the truth, but that’s not saying that I believe they have the truth.

All of that being said, there are some things that I don’t necessarily like about what the Church teaches. I too believe this more to a marriage than breeding - which is one example I used. Where I’m coming from is this: Christ started His Church on Peter. He promised He would be with us to the end of the age. He promised that it would be protected, “the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” I will trust the Holy Spirit before I trust some other man made institution. Which is what protestant denominations are.

Are you trying to say that the Catholic church hasn’t changed over the years? Are you saying its impossible to be corrupted, infiltrated by bad teachers? Adam and Eve were created in perfection and certainly didn’t stay this way. With my best knowledge of the early Church, I don’t see this starting in complete unity. If you study the history of God’s relationship with people in the Bible, it emphasizes personal faith more than anything. You don’t have to look to far to see that this is far from being manifest in members of today’s christian Churches. And I see the Catholic church doing more than its share to fall far short on this end. I am encouraged by the many who have demonstrated at Notre Dame, but I challenge all to step up in faith and answer the call we have been given. Of course I don’t discount myself in this. Why do we fight over petty things, like who’s church is purer? Is your goal to gain members to Christ’s kingdom, or members under your church? Christ said he came to divide, if we are seeking Him and His holiness and Truth, some will leave, and some will be drawn. “If two or more are gathered in His name …” Let us seek Christ and come together in unity.