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friardchips
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We have to be icky picky with what we believe is worth researching as opposed to the things which are complete and utter nonsense.
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GKC
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Indeed, the ability to separate things is essential. And the point of this discussion.Criticizing the military for doing Yoga - which is known to have an effect so far not measured by any known or regulated quantity; also taking into account that it is rooted in non-Christian Eastern philosophy, which could be a valid point of concern - is a far cry from silly conspiracy theories such as the one you mentioned. The ability to separate one from the other in terms of likelihood involves using the organ located somewhere inbetween the ears!
So you will be eschewing silly conspiracy theories, in the future, I presume. Things will be quieter around here.
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friardchips
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I am basing a logical argument on facts to do with Yoga and the fact that it is an unknown quantity.
In terms of intent, I don’t believe I’ve gone there. 'Tis why I use words carefully.
You must be a Yoga-user then, going by your last emotionally-charged post?
In terms of intent, I don’t believe I’ve gone there. 'Tis why I use words carefully.
You must be a Yoga-user then, going by your last emotionally-charged post?
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GKC
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My mind is relieved.Who said anything about conspiracy theories anyway?!
I never mentioned any conspiracy theories.
You will retain your obsession, I presume.
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GKC
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Since my posts are remarkably unemotional, though markedly judgmental, dismissive, and condescending, I am unsure to whom you are speaking here.
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friardchips
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And I shall retain!
I think, if we look at Scripture, especially in Isaiah, we hear our Creator speaking to those whom were offering him “New Moon” festivities etc…, and this would actually, now, I would assume, be recognised as pagan understanding - correct me if I’m wrong - and He did not want these pagan festivities.
Now I believe in Our Lady of Guadaloupe. She gave a message for those who went about making human sacrificies to gods, as if she was acknowledging, or before her, our Creator, had recognised these people’s offerings to be towards Him, the One creator, albeit in a way which Our Lady said they didn’t have to (killing).
This does give rise to a certain respect one needs to have for all religions (apart from satanic cults) which I believe anyway, and I think this includes Hinduism. Because if our Creator accepted though maybe not pleased by sacrficies from very primitive religions, He was, however, showing us, that they were and maybe still are trying to reach Him, specifically. This is why I think even having a certain respect for pagan religions is important - for their reach of the divine.
My issue, which is based really on thinking of possible consequences as opposed to hating all outside influences, is from the specifically Christian religious perspective e.g:- if we were in a land where education about The Son of God was not prevalent or known then we would seek to find the love present there and know our Creator was with them in that respect, right? But where we live, in Christian lands, where we already have fuller knowledge, or could have, especially when baptised, of the Son of God, then to go back to primitive understanding does raise questions about education of Christianity in the West (why people feel they have to do non-Christian meditation). And going back on our knowledge does not increase the possibility of extending the reach of the Church in far distant lands. And soldiers, believe it or not, do have access to far off lands.
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GKC
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friardchips
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cont…
I do have a slight obsession, yet I don’t believe it is all for nothing, or negative, because I think, sincerely, that the more we evangelise and have faith-discussion with other religions the more we will see how much bigger our Creator is than what even we think he can be. And I also like very much many stories in the Hindu religion and sometimes think there are bridges which can be built via noticing the love in those stories. Compared to what we know in Christian Revelation, some of it is quite basic, I think, but they are not worthless stories.
But I do think one needs to keep safely apart what we know as solid doctrine, from somewhat whimsical tales of love and woe, and not use practices that are based on such sentimentality. Otherwise, I feel one is not looking at the subject sufficiently objectively and remaining emotionally unattached (referring to a past thread not the present one).
Isn’t it jumping the gun to go from war to no involvement whatsoever. Where is the area inbetween and what could be the cause of overly relaxed attitudes in the military to people being slaughtered barbarically. Is it too much to suggest that Yoga could bring out a kind of slothe-type response to terror in the military as origins of Yoga are seemingly fairly primitive ideas of who our Creator is - a kind of unknown sense rather than definite relationship.
I do have a slight obsession, yet I don’t believe it is all for nothing, or negative, because I think, sincerely, that the more we evangelise and have faith-discussion with other religions the more we will see how much bigger our Creator is than what even we think he can be. And I also like very much many stories in the Hindu religion and sometimes think there are bridges which can be built via noticing the love in those stories. Compared to what we know in Christian Revelation, some of it is quite basic, I think, but they are not worthless stories.
But I do think one needs to keep safely apart what we know as solid doctrine, from somewhat whimsical tales of love and woe, and not use practices that are based on such sentimentality. Otherwise, I feel one is not looking at the subject sufficiently objectively and remaining emotionally unattached (referring to a past thread not the present one).
- my position.
Isn’t it jumping the gun to go from war to no involvement whatsoever. Where is the area inbetween and what could be the cause of overly relaxed attitudes in the military to people being slaughtered barbarically. Is it too much to suggest that Yoga could bring out a kind of slothe-type response to terror in the military as origins of Yoga are seemingly fairly primitive ideas of who our Creator is - a kind of unknown sense rather than definite relationship.
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GKC
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Certainly there is no predicting what folk might find to agitate themselves over. I’ve been watching such stuff since long before the internet - back to buying Ruppelt’s REPORT ON UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS, 60 years ago. I continue to marvel.
As to your last para, I recall a question being asked with respect to your military experience/exposure. I don’t recall the reply.
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friardchips
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My reply was given.
I do also recall saying that I have never spoken of ‘conspiracy’ which is what your last post bends towards. This is not a thread about ‘conspiracies’.
I am talking about possibilities based on facts.
And if the military are using Yoga in their weekly routines, as the link in this and another thread exposes (I suggest posters read the link rather than making absurd and flippant comments which only point all the more to Yoga being a rather negative influence on people if this bad attitude is the attitude that manifests from practicing it; all the time with their knickers in a twist), then we are all entitled to ask why.
Unless of course you think the military are not answerable to anyone - including the folks at home. That would not be a good state of affairs. Maybe some like the idea of totalitarian governments doing what they want, when they want, how they want, under the hypocritical guise of freedom, with no transparency, and the same for their military - I guess some in the U.S might not have complained after it was revealed that they’d been spying on the rest of the world, after all, this is your super-power; maybe that is best considering some of the stuff that was leaked about goings on in the U.S military in the Middle East ages ago that came out in the press!
.Or maybe it is that some don’t care enough that innocent children and women get murdered or pushed out of their homes while a theocracy in the making continues to build its satanic empire. I mean, it is not your neighbourhood, is it. So, yes, I have a right to question why. If you don’t like it, I really don’t give a monkeys. Because questions need to be asked. And unfortunately we are not all in an authoratitive position to be able to make any headway so those that are are, are to be acting responsibly, and appropriately.
IOW, if I want to ask a question, I’ll ask it!
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GKC
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Please repeat the reply.My reply was given.
I do also recall saying that I have never spoken of ‘conspiracy’ which is what your last post bends towards. This is not a thread about ‘conspiracies’.
I am talking about possibilities based on facts.
And if the military are using Yoga in their weekly routines, as the link in this and another thread exposes (I suggest posters read the link rather than making absurd and flippant comments which only point all the more to Yoga being a rather negative influence on people if this bad attitude is the attitude that manifests from practicing it; all the time with their knickers in a twist), then we are all entitled to ask why.
Unless of course you think the military are not answerable to anyone - including the folks at home. That would not be a good state of affairs. Maybe some like the idea of totalitarian governments doing what they want, when they want, how they want, under the hypocritical guise of freedom, with no transparency, and the same for their military - I guess some in the U.S might not have complained after it was revealed that they’d been spying on the rest of the world, after all, this is your super-power; maybe that is best considering some of the stuff that was leaked about goings on in the U.S military in the Middle East ages ago that came out in the press!
Or maybe it is that some don’t care enough that innocent children and women get murdered or pushed out of their homes while a theocracy in the making continues to build its satanic empire. I mean, it is not your neighbourhood, is it. So, yes, I have a right to question why. If you don’t like it, I really don’t give a monkeys. Because questions need to be asked. And unfortunately we are not all in an authoratitive position to be able to make any headway so those that are are, are to be acting responsibly, and appropriately.
Meanwhile, I got to leave for a while.
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friardchips
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From the link: theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/aug/31/yoga-army-us-military
Very revealing.
What a combination of reassuring phrases!
Bingo!
Hiding behind a trigger in a plane rather than boots on ground (?)
Not for a battle.
So, what, Yoga is a drug? This gets better (or worse).
Doesn’t this seem a bit confused. One minute it is this then it is this instead? Hmm…! Maybe no one knows what Yoga actually is!
Looks as if it is well incorporated (again, pun intended).
Very revealing.
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Picky_Picky
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Can you really be worried that yoga might teach the military to turn the other cheek? It’s possible, I suppose.From the link: theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/aug/31/yoga-army-us-military
What a combination of reassuring phrases!
Bingo!
Hiding behind a trigger in a plane rather than boots on ground (?)
Not for a battle.
So, what, Yoga is a drug? This gets better (or worse).
Doesn’t this seem a bit confused. One minute it is this then it is this instead? Hmm…! Maybe no one knows what Yoga actually is!
Looks as if it is well incorporated (again, pun intended).
Very revealing.
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friardchips
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Brother Christian, turning the other cheek could be a consequence. No one can be sure that this is why the military have not being doing as much as they could have been doing in recent years, after all, U.S military did some pretty amazing covert work, apparently, to undo Al Qaeda some time back, and this would have taken much courage, commitment and perseverance. But, I think it depends on the level to which they practice it: the military are not known to be the sort of people who would do things by halves. In this case, what is the whole? Who is the authority? Would they get into the spirituality, side of things? And if so, is nothing, better than even a half?! And could this then take effect later on when things might hotten up again (not that they have dissolved yet)? Answering whether this could be the cause for recent lack of military action would depend on how long and how intensely the U.S have been practicing Yoga? Normally situations happen because of a series of events and multiple reasons. But your question is a fair and quite logical question to ask, nevertheless, IMHO.
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eddie_too
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yoga is derived from Hinduism. there is no way to remove the influence of Hinduism from the practice of yoga.
if yoga is an acceptable military practice, then saying the rosary publicly should be considered its equal within the military ranks; and if leaders ok yoga practices they should be equally willing to ok groups of soldiers saying the rosary together while on base and in their barracks.
if members of the military are free to invite others or to encourage others to practice yoga they should be equally free to invite others or to encourage others to say the rosary publicly.
because of yoga’s integral connection to Hinduism, it is best that faithful Christians not involve themselves with it.
if yoga is an acceptable military practice, then saying the rosary publicly should be considered its equal within the military ranks; and if leaders ok yoga practices they should be equally willing to ok groups of soldiers saying the rosary together while on base and in their barracks.
if members of the military are free to invite others or to encourage others to practice yoga they should be equally free to invite others or to encourage others to say the rosary publicly.
because of yoga’s integral connection to Hinduism, it is best that faithful Christians not involve themselves with it.
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GKC
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I see nothing to suggest the answer is not “Zero, or less”, but perhaps I missed it.
Let me repeat. The military is not self-initializing. If it is to do anything, it does it in response to competent constitutional authority, within a chain of command running up to the national command authority. Trust me, you wouldn’t like it otherwise.
To advance your silly thesis, you must show that the military has failed to do something martial, because yoga has transported them to the land of the lotus eaters, that it was ordered to do, by that authority. Then, you may back it up the chain, to whatever level of the national command authority you suggest, and advance the thesis that it is the command/managerial levels who have pointedly polluted the sharp end of the spear, through fluoridation (per Gen Ripper, again). This would require you to assume either that the middle level management was itself unknowingly neutered by yoga, or that some form of higher conspiracy (has to be some reason for all that yoganizing) laid it on them, and they, in turn, on the actual troops. Or you assume the the CiC, purely thorough the efficiency of yoga, applied all the way down, has gelded the warriors, so he doesn’t have to explain to a curious public why his policies are as they are. Surely everyone will see the point. As soon as the entire country is on yoga, that is. Conspiracy again. If what you suggest is done, it must be done for a reason and an end. But it all requires a first step, proof that the military has not done something that it was ordered to do, because of yoga.
The use of the military as an instrument of national policy very often requires it to actually perform combat. Not the only way it can act, but the one that rightly gets the attention. But that requires that authority to command it to do so, does. And often, in specific circumstances, that authority fails to do so, in ways that folks outside the process find inane, inadequate, traitorous, inept, or evil. Certainly I find that to be true, on occasion. But the law of parsimony only requires an assumption that this is done in the same circumstances it has been historically: politics and ignorance, ideology and idiocy. Not exercise and meditation at the squad level. Or global warming.
I had no interest in the bloated thread you began on yoga. I have no interest in yoga, as an exercise, physical, metal or spiritual. Your assertion that its use in the military might be why the political use of the military arm of national power is structured in a certain way, at a certain time, qualifies you for an honorary tin foil hat.
You can’t have mine.
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friardchips
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There probably are plenty of chaplains, but whether they are as intensely involved in training programs as what we’d like to hear could be questioned, when Hindu routines start creeping in by the army-truck load.
Don Juan of Austria found the Rosary to be an instrument of powerful devotion.
Sometimes all we have to do is look back at history; after all, isn’t history there to be learnt from?!
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friardchips
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Not conspiracy. Reason being that conspiracy is just that until proved otherwise, and because it is not likely to be proved, so it will always remain. And it is not likely anyway.
So the other reason is what you said further way down - idiocy. Venturing into unknowns.
If you look at the link you will see a nice big colour photograph of squadies doing Yoga!
Cameras don’t lie as well as that, and neither do image-editing programs.
It is this simple: Yoga is a multi-billion dollar industry. FACT. It is big business and it is being pushed. FACT. It is reported by ‘Yogis’ and Christian Religious researchers to be very difficult if not impossible to separate from non-Christian Eastern Religious spirituality. VERY LIKELY-FACT. We have proof that the U.S military are doing Yoga. FACT. The U.S could start, if they haven’t already, incorporating the spirituality side of things into Yoga - into their Yoga ‘exercise’. VERY POSSIBLE-LIKELY. This means someone had to have taught Yoga. FACT. This means someone at some higher up level had to suggest Yoga. FACT. This means someone had to authorise Yoga. FACT. This means that someone had to research Yoga. FACT. Someone had to do business with those involved in Yoga. FACT. People who are higher up the ladder in Yoga money-making circles. VERY LIKELY (now it gets ropey).
So, when we look at this info., we can clearly see how there are quite a few facts and not that many speculative ideas shining forth like a new moon already.
One little bit of info. starts a chain of action and consequence or cause and effect - the cause being the unclear grey areas but the effect being the facts leading to questions needing to be asked of the causes. Sometimes we never find out the causes but can read situations by knowing what effects lead to good and what effects lead to less good.
I don’t have any tin foil. Would baking paper do?
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