Milk before meat, the mormons may have gotten it right!

[RebeccaJ]

I’ll ask again, is it true that Mormons teach Father Son and Holy Ghost are three seperate gods?

Yes.

 

[RC_Matt]

I’ll ask again, is it true that Mormons teach Father Son and Holy Ghost are three seperate gods?

Since the OP won’t answer you (this is “meat”), I will.

The Mormons believe that they are three distinct and separate entities. The Mormon god, “heavenly father,” is a corporeal being, an exalted man who progressed to godhood by being a good Mormon elsewhere, who lives on a planet near the star Kolob. The Mormon christ is also a corporeal being, the Mormon holy spirit is pure spirit.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Not really. It was not that long ago where I read criticism of the mormons giving milk before meat. It seems that such an idea is in the bible.

We have no idea what was milk and what was meat at the time of Paul. But it does seem that new christians were treated gently and Paul did not want to give meat before the right time to prevent people from departing the faith. And in that letter, they were still not ready for the meat. What was Paul ‘concealing’ from the early christians? What was the meat?

Of course we have an idea. We know.

To the pagan, who believed in gods and goddesses, first, the true nature of God was taught. This was the milk. Then, the Sacraments. This was the meat. You know the Sacraments?

To the Jews, first, the truth of Jesus Christ is the Messiah. This was the milk. Then, the Sacraments. This was the meat.

There was nothing kept from a person prior to their baptism that had to be learned AFTER baptism.

For you why me, the milk is understanding the true nature of God. Until you understand this, and get rid of the mormon pollutions in your head, you will never understand the meat.

The idea that God has something more to reveal, that is hidden from us, is another Mormon pollution. One that parallels gnostic heresy. You should seek to cleanse this pollution from your mind and soul.

You can begin by seeking to understand scripture as a Catholic does.

 

[RebeccaJ]

for you whyme, from Irenaeus “Against Heresies”. How a Catholic understands Paul’s words:

And for this cause our Lord in these last times, when He had summed up all things into Himself, came to us, not as He might have come, but as we were capable of beholding Him. He might easily have come to us in His immortal glory, but in that case we could never have endured the greatness of the glory; and therefore it was that He, who was the perfect bread of the Father, offered Himself to us as milk, [because we were] as infants. He did this when He appeared as a man, that we, being nourished, as it were, from the breast of His flesh, and having, by such a course of milk nourishment, become accustomed to eat and drink the Word of God, may be able also to contain in ourselves the Bread of immortality, which is the Spirit of the Father.

1. **And on this account does Paul declare to the Corinthians, I have fed you with milk, not with meat, for hitherto you were not able to bear it. 1 Corinthians 3:2 That is, you have indeed learned the advent of our Lord as a man; nevertheless, because of your infirmity, the Spirit of the Father has not as yet rested upon you. **For when envying and strife, he says, and dissensions are among you, are you not carnal, and walk as men? 1 Corinthians 3:3 That is, that the Spirit of the Father was not yet with them, on account of their imperfection and shortcomings of their walk in life. As, therefore, the apostle had the power to give them strong meat— for those upon whom the apostles laid hands received the Holy Spirit, who is the food of life [eternal] — but they were not capable of receiving it, because they had the sentient faculties of the soul still feeble and undisciplined in the practice of things pertaining to God; so, in like manner, God had power at the beginning to grant perfection to man; but as the latter was only recently created, he could not possibly have received it, or even if he had received it, could he have contained it, or containing it, could he have retained it. It was for this reason that the Son of God, although He was perfect, passed through the state of infancy in common with the rest of mankind, partaking of it thus not for His own benefit, but for that of the infantile stage of man’s existence, in order that man might be able to receive Him. There was nothing, therefore, impossible to and deficient in God, [implied in the fact] that man was not an uncreated being; but this merely applied to him who was lately created, [namely] man.

Do you see whyme? Irenaeus is clearly stating that one must understand first, God, (the milk). Then, one is ready for the Sacrament of Confirmation (the meat). This is clarified even further, when one is confirmed, and receives the Eucharist, which is literally, meat.

 

[ralphinal]

I always connect those verses to the part where Paul talks about how when he was a child, he thought and acted like one. As he got older, he changed into an adult.

As his understanding of God grew within the Holy Spirit, he left behind the older, easier ways to see God and grew into a more spiritually mature way.

As they grew in understanding of the Gospel, he was able to increase the level of teaching and moral code. It never says that he withheld the truth, but the amount he gave them at first and how he presented it were different.

 

[zerinus]

It has often been said on this section of the forum that the mormons give milk before meat. And this is said in criticism of the mormons. And yet, in the KJV bible we find the same principle. I think that the criticism that mormons give milk before meat should now be laid to rest.

I found this today in the New Testament: 1 Corinthians Chapter 3:

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

It seems that Paul was also feeding the early church, milk before meat because of the carnal nature of the human being. And then we have this verse from Hebrews chapter 5, verse 12-14:

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

And then finally, 1 Peter chapter 2:1-2:

1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby.

And so, the mormons may have gotten it right. Milk should be before meat.

Thank you why me for that timely comment. There is also another dimension to that, which will be found in these verses:

D&C 6:

9 Say nothing but repentance unto this generation; . . .

D&C 18:

6 Behold, the world is ripening in iniquity; and it must needs be that the children of men are stirred up unto repentance, both the Gentiles and also the house of Israel.

D&C 19:

21 And I command you that you preach naught but repentance, . . .

---

31 And of tenets thou shalt not talk, but thou shalt declare repentance and faith on the Savior, and remission of sins by baptism, and by fire, yea, even the Holy Ghost.

D&C 34:

6 To lift up your voice as with the sound of a trump, both long and loud, and cry repentance unto a crooked and perverse generation, preparing the way of the Lord for his second coming.

D&C 53:

3 Take upon you mine ordination, even that of an elder, to preach faith and repentance and remission of sins, according to my word, and the reception of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands

D&C 63:

57 And again, verily I say unto you, those who desire in their hearts, in meekness, to warn sinners to repentance, let them be ordained unto this power.

58 For this is a day of warning, and not a day of many words. For I, the Lord, am not to be mocked in the last days.

This is a day of warning and not of “many words”. We are not there to mess around. We are there to warn people to save themselves from the wickedness of the world before it is too late. Those who want to argue, and question, and doubt, and cast aspersions, will not be interested in our message, and our message is not intended for them. We don’t care if such people want to accept our message or not.

zerinus

 

[Believe_85]

Thank you why me for that timely comment. There is also another dimension to that, which will be found in these verses:

D&C 6:

9 Say nothing but repentance unto this generation; . . .

D&C 18:

6 Behold, the world is ripening in iniquity; and it must needs be that the children of men are stirred up unto repentance, both the Gentiles and also the house of Israel.

D&C 19:

21 And I command you that you preach naught but repentance, . . .

---

31 And of tenets thou shalt not talk, but thou shalt declare repentance and faith on the Savior, and remission of sins by baptism, and by fire, yea, even the Holy Ghost.

D&C 34:

6 To lift up your voice as with the sound of a trump, both long and loud, and cry repentance unto a crooked and perverse generation, preparing the way of the Lord for his second coming.

D&C 53:

3 Take upon you mine ordination, even that of an elder, to preach faith and repentance and remission of sins, according to my word, and the reception of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands

D&C 63:

57 And again, verily I say unto you, those who desire in their hearts, in meekness, to warn sinners to repentance, let them be ordained unto this power.

58 For this is a day of warning, and not a day of many words. For I, the Lord, am not to be mocked in the last days.

This is a day of warning and not of “many words”. We are not there to mess around. We are there to warn people to save themselves from the wickedness of the world before it is too late. Those who want to argue, and question, and doubt, and cast aspersions, will not be interested in our message, and our message is not intended for them. We don’t care if such people want to accept our message or not.

zerinus

Then why are you on a Catholic forum if it is not to convert people with “your message”? My personal revelation tells me you will say you are here to defend your faith when we misrepresent it. I think we all know it is that and you hope we will read your defense and want to join you. Isn’t it exhausting? If you don’t want us, why keep trying?

 

[ralphinal]

Thank you why me for that timely comment. There is also another dimension to that, which will be found in these verses:

D&C 6:

9 Say nothing but repentance unto this generation; . . .

D&C 18:

6 Behold, the world is ripening in iniquity; and it must needs be that the children of men are stirred up unto repentance, both the Gentiles and also the house of Israel.

D&C 19:

21 And I command you that you preach naught but repentance, . . .

---

31 And of tenets thou shalt not talk, but thou shalt declare repentance and faith on the Savior, and remission of sins by baptism, and by fire, yea, even the Holy Ghost.

D&C 34:

6 To lift up your voice as with the sound of a trump, both long and loud, and cry repentance unto a crooked and perverse generation, preparing the way of the Lord for his second coming.

D&C 53:

3 Take upon you mine ordination, even that of an elder, to preach faith and repentance and remission of sins, according to my word, and the reception of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands

D&C 63:

57 And again, verily I say unto you, those who desire in their hearts, in meekness, to warn sinners to repentance, let them be ordained unto this power.

58 For this is a day of warning, and not a day of many words. For I, the Lord, am not to be mocked in the last days.

This is a day of warning and not of “many words”. We are not there to mess around. We are there to warn people to save themselves from the wickedness of the world before it is too late. Those who want to argue, and question, and doubt, and cast aspersions, will not be interested in our message, and our message is not intended for them. We don’t care if such people want to accept our message or not.

zerinus

zerinus,
I agree that we must get about the work of the Father and start telling people to repent. I ahve no issue with that. But, if time is a wasting, why not get to telling ALL the info up-front? Wouldn’t a process of telling some doctrine to those who are not in the fold then adding others once they are in waist time? Why not put it all out there and up front and let the mesage stand 100% on its own?

 

[zerinus]

zerinus,
I agree that we must get about the work of the Father and start telling people to repent. I ahve no issue with that. But, if time is a wasting, why not get to telling ALL the info up-front? Wouldn’t a process of telling some doctrine to those who are not in the fold then adding others once they are in waist time? Why not put it all out there and up front and let the mesage stand 100% on its own?

Then you couldn’t have read the quotes I had given.

zerinus

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Why me

I am kinda waiting on a response to my Post. surely you have some comment to make in regard to it.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

“And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.” - 2 Nephi 31:21

“Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.” - D&C 20:28

You should spend more time reading the Bible, Your Catechism, the the Writings of the Early Church fathers. And stay away from these things written by Mormons. For what ever they have written in there books Their understanding and Teaching of the Oneness of God is not what The Catholic Church teaches of the Trinity.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Every time someone tells me to stay away from any particular book, I immediately whip it out and read it.

And I have the Catholic Catechism in electronic form on my Palm Treo, along with the LDS scriptures and numerous occult books, and am prone to reading them at odd places and times.

But why? Would you given a choice of pure clean water and muddy unhealthy water would you continue to drink from the muddy? I will let you decide for your self which ones I am refering to as Pure clean, and which as Muddy and toxic.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

It has often been said on this section of the forum that the mormons give milk before meat. And this is said in criticism of the mormons. And yet, in the KJV bible we find the same principle. I think that the criticism that mormons give milk before meat should now be laid to rest.

I found this today in the New Testament: 1 Corinthians Chapter 3:

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

It seems that Paul was also feeding the early church, milk before meat because of the carnal nature of the human being. And then we have this verse from Hebrews chapter 5, verse 12-14:

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

And then finally, 1 Peter chapter 2:1-2:

1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby.

And so, the mormons may have gotten it right. Milk should be before meat.

No. Paul is saying we can’t get into the INTERESTING spiritual truths because you Corinthians mind’s are in the gutter, so Paul has to go back to the do’s and dont’s (milk) of what it means to be Christian.

For Mormons, this phrase means hiding information, denying information, obfuscating about information to potential converts and even the new converts, and later on down the road when it comes time to really divulge information they either wait until the convert’s attitude is sufficiently open or even put them in an ultimatum situation after old friend and family ties have been broken.

For example, the doctrine of eternal progression, we literally had a hell of a time getting straight, honest, and consistent information from LDS around here, yet I’m fully convinced you cannot be a good mormon and reject that doctrine.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Do the Mormons really teach Father Son and Holy Ghost are three seperate gods?

Yes, that is why they attack the Nicene Creed so heavily. And, as others have said, this is most definitely a Meat (T-Bone steak) issue. Most LDS I have talked to, even in real life, will not come out and say 3 gods, or they will obfuscate when questioned, and even sometimes they will outright lie.
From the LDS homepage:
God the Father: It is generally the Father, or Elohim, who is referred to by the title God. He is called the Father because he is the father of our spirits

God the Son: The God known as Jehovah is the Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus works under the direction of the Father and is in complete harmony with him. All mankind are his brothers and sisters, for he is the eldest of the spirit children of Elohim. Some scripture references refer to him by the word God. For example, the scripture says that “God created the heaven and the earth” , but it was actually Jesus who was the Creator under the direction of God the Father

God the Holy Ghost: The Holy Ghost is also a God and is called the Holy Spirit
scriptures.lds.org/en/gs/g/22

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Because I have a brain, and can think for myself.

You would choose to continue to drink the dirty water because you have a brain and can think for yourself? That makes perfect since.

 

[Nino]

the cow to the pig…“do you want to know why we are so popular?” “no,I have always wondered on that one” “well” said the cow"we give while we are still alive!"

 

[Ruthie]

“Paul and others state quite plainly that people, because of their carnal nature need the milk first. The rest would be concealed until a good time to bring it forth.”

Would you care to quote the Scriptures that back up the underlined portion? Especially the part about concealing?

… On the milk and meat issue, I think common sense blows the LDS viewpoint out of the water. In real life, all mammals are raised on milk, but in the presence of the meat. When they grow enough to want the meat, it is right there to be eaten, not hidden away somewhere.

From life experience, I always avoid anything that smacks of “hidden knowledge.” It has always turned out to be something that either requires me to give lots of money to those holding the “secret,” or me doing something humiliating, or a bunch of silly dress-up rites with secret handshakes - or, ultimately, being part of a clique that looked down on those not in on the “secret.”

Not my cup of tea.

Since I first inquired into Catholicism (even before I thought about joining the Church) nothing has been hidden from me. Not one iota, jot, or tittle. I have always gotten straight answers. That has not been my experience with the Mormons on this forum. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one give a straight answer to the question, “Do Mormons believe (whatever)?”

Ruthie

 

[ralphinal]

Then you couldn’t have read the quotes I had given.

zerinus

I just re-read them. In light of your post, I now think that they are a command to trick people into becoming Mormon. The first time I read them, I took them to mean that you should teach about repentance. Again, I will ask: why not tell the whole story and let peopel judge for themselves?

 

[why_me]

Of course we have an idea. We know.

To the pagan, who believed in gods and goddesses, first, the true nature of God was taught. This was the milk. Then, the Sacraments. This was the meat. You know the Sacraments?

To the Jews, first, the truth of Jesus Christ is the Messiah. This was the milk. Then, the Sacraments. This was the meat.

There was nothing kept from a person prior to their baptism that had to be learned AFTER baptism.

For you why me, the milk is understanding the true nature of God. Until you understand this, and get rid of the mormon pollutions in your head, you will never understand the meat.

The idea that God has something more to reveal, that is hidden from us, is another Mormon pollution. One that parallels gnostic heresy. You should seek to cleanse this pollution from your mind and soul.

You can begin by seeking to understand scripture as a Catholic does.

The meat must have been more than the sacrament. For the early christians, the sacrament was a natural part of their lives. Paul was addressing the church and not the pagans. However, the pagans were certainly influencing the church at the time of Paul. Members left the fold and rejoined the pagans. Paul is basically saying that milk comes before meat because the human being is carnal and is not yet ready of the meat and that included the early christian community.

The other scripture verses I stated outside of corinthians seems to confirm this.

 

[why_me]

Do you see whyme? Irenaeus is clearly stating that one must understand first, God, (the milk). Then, one is ready for the Sacrament of Confirmation (the meat). This is clarified even further, when one is confirmed, and receives the Eucharist, which is literally, meat.

The sripture is not that clear. Paul states clearly that first the early church will be given the milk and than the meat at some later date when they become more intune with the milk and leave carnal attributes behind. Of course these verses that I posted in the OP are open to interpretation. But I wanted to show that milk comes before meat is in the New Testament. The catholic critics of mormonism on this forum did not infer that in their criticisms of the lds church.