Millenialism

[Monica4316]

Hello, I have a question that I am finding sort of confusing… I found this quote:

"Millennialism, properly defined, is not heresy. Millennialism is the belief in a future time of peace and holiness on earth. True millennialism is a set of beliefs, within the Roman Catholic faith, which includes: the first Return of Christ (when He will establish His kingdom on earth), and then a very long spiritual reign by Christ through the Church and the Sacraments, and then the second Return of Christ, for the Judgment and the general Resurrection. This idea is based on the 20th chapter from the Book of Revelation (discussed in detail below).

Millenarianism refers to heretical forms of millennialism. The heresy of millenarianism believes in a visible reign of Christ over an earthly kingdom for a period of a thousand years. The exact length of time is not the issue. Millenarianism stresses an earthly reign for Christ, like an earthly king, with the primary benefits being earthly pleasures. The heresy of millenarianism is related to Arianism, which taught the erroneous idea that Christ was not eternal God. If Christ were not God, then he could only have an earthly reign. Such is the heresy of millenarianism.

The Magisterium has not formally defined or condemned millennialism. Certain forms of millennialism (often called millenarianism) are contrary to the Faith, and the term millenarianism has been used to refer to various kinds of false millennialism and false Messianism. However, there is nothing to prevent a formulation of millennialism that would entirely conform to Tradition, Scripture, Magisterium. The Magisterium of the Church does not condemn terminology, but only ideas contrary to faith or morals. And the term millennialism is derived from the text of Scripture (Rev. 20) referring to a thousand year period of time. This article will define a true version of millennialism, based on Scripture, which does not contradict Church teaching."

So according to Church teaching, CAN it be that Christ would return in a way and spiritually reign for a thousand years, after which will come the Resurrection of the dead, the Last Judgement, and Jesus coming physically back to earth? the antichrist might be before the 1000 years or after. (I don’t know). I am not speaking about the “rapture” here. We’ll assume that those who are faithful to God will live through the tribulation prior to the 1000 years.

I’m asking because I know there are private revelations that talk about a “period of peace” and a Great Monarch (who will be a man) and a Pope, etc…

Is the condemned idea simply that Christ would have an earthly kingdom like an ordinary king?

here’s the link with more information: catholicplanet.com/future/millennialism-defined.htm

thanks!

 

[Monica4316]

But then I found this from Catholic Answers…

The Church does not endorse pre-millennialism. The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains: “The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism.” Indeed, the Nicene Creed, which is said at every Sunday Mass, appears to reject pre-millennialism, holding that Christ will return “to judge the living and the dead,” not to reign on earth for a thousand years and then judge the living and the dead. Since the Church is not pre-millennial, the question of a pre-trib Rapture does not arise, as pre-tribulationism is a variant of pre-millennialism.

 

[Monica4316]

Furthermore, is there a distinction between a literal reign of Christ for a thousand years, vs a spiritual reign (with the literal, physical Second Coming afterwards)? Are we allowed to believe in the spiritual reign?

 

[beehumble]

Furthermore, is there a distinction between a literal reign of Christ for a thousand years, vs a spiritual reign (with the literal, physical Second Coming afterwards)? Are we allowed to believe in the spiritual reign?

The Kingdom is here now and Jesus reigns over His kingdom now, from Heaven. The Church is said to consist of three parts:

Church Triumphant - those in Heaven with Jesus now, whom we call saints (some are specifically declared such as St. Francis, many are not). They have run their race and won - they triumphed.

Church Militant - the Church on earth now - us who are members of the Church on earth today.

Church Suffering - those in purgatory.

When Jesus our King returns to the earth at what we call the Second Coming, it is said He will return with the Church Triumphant. Also at that time those in purgatory will have completed their “sentence” and also be united. Then the Church will come into its fullness alongside our King, Who will present it the Our Father. The earth itself will “resurrect” into a transformed perfect heavenly garden-of-eden type earth and God will dwell with us. We will live forever in joy - no more tears, no suffering, no dark only light etc. “Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” will happen. This present world will cease and be transformed into its perfect state as it was at creation. Jesus didn’t just rise from the dead - He is the Resurrection ofa ll things - “Behold I make ALL THINGS new.” "I am the Resurrection [one could parenthetically add “of all things”].

This present time is the figurative 1000 years of Rev 20 where Jesus is reigning now, from Heaven. That 1000 years goes from the time of His first coming until just before His second coming. If you read Rev 20, you will see it also mentions a ‘short time of Satan’ that happens just before Jesus returns - a final trial of the Church. Jesus reigns from heaven during this time too. Rev 20 says ‘at the end of the thousand years, Satan is released for a short time’ - that short time is Satan’s “hour”. Jesus’ “hour” was his approx 3.5 years of public ministry and also His death and resurrection - “my hour has not yet come.”] This is the time of the great tribulation that is cut short, and apostasy. The sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky and Jesus and the Church Triumphant will be seen returning as Satan and his followers are vanquished and ‘burned up [the fiery transformation or renewal of the earth happens too with this “fire”] and thrown into the lake of fire forever’, and then there is the raising of the dead and the Final Judgment and peace and harmony and God will dwell with His people in the Kingdom.

Hope this helps.

God bless you.

 

[Monica4316]

Thank you for the reply!

well one thing I can’t seem to understand is how in some Catholic articles, or articles about private revelations, it talks about an actual period of a 1000 years where everyone would be Catholic and Jesus would reign, but I guess spiritually. Is this acceptable to think? I don’t understand why there seem to be two views, one saying that the 1000 year period is literal, and the other is figurative. Is it wrong to think that Jesus will reign for a thousand years spiritually, or does the Church only disagree with the idea that He would reign physically/literally? I’ve been trying to do research on this but the more I research the more it all confuses me lol. what you said above is what I’ve always believed before, but these other articles are saying otherwise, and they are Catholic too (not Protestant) and mention accepted private revelations… (how can this be, if the private revelations had contradicted the Church’s teachings?)

 

[beehumble]

Thank you for the reply!

well one thing I can’t seem to understand is how in some Catholic articles, or articles about private revelations, it talks about an actual period of a 1000 years where everyone would be Catholic and Jesus would reign, but I guess spiritually. Is this acceptable to think? I don’t understand why there seem to be two views, one saying that the 1000 year period is literal, and the other is figurative. Is it wrong to think that Jesus will reign for a thousand years spiritually, or does the Church only disagree with the idea that He would reign physically/literally? I’ve been trying to do research on this but the more I research the more it all confuses me lol. what you said above is what I’ve always believed before, but these other articles are saying otherwise, and they are Catholic too (not Protestant) and mention accepted private revelations… (how can this be, if the private revelations had contradicted the Church’s teachings?)

Many Catholics are poorly catechized (I was myself but have read some apologetics, some Scot Hahn, other books, the Bible, the catechism so have caught up so to speak although by no means am I an expert or know-it-all on it, but I do know what the CCC says about the end times) , and most that I know have not read much if anything of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. What I said above is basically what is in the catechism. And add the constant exposure of poorly catechized Catholics to Protestant ideas over and over on television, causing a spill-over of protestant ideas into Catholics.

Also, not all things said even in approved private revelations are necessarily approved by the Church. and some are taken out of context - what is said for example by an apparition in 1848 might prophetically relate to something that happens in 1870, but is now being erroneously applied to the times of today when its applicable time has long since passed. The major apparition of our time that is applicable to today is Fatima. We are in the “period of peace(reconciliation)” even now.

In particular there is at present great confusion over the meaning of the famous “period of peace” spoken of by Our Lady of the Rosary at Fatima. By this, Our Lady meant a “period of reconciliation” between man and God - a period of time given to us to be reconciled with God by believing in Him, by going to confession, by obeying HIs commandments and by prayer. It is the peace Jesus spoke of when He said “My peace I leave you, my peace I give to you - not as the world gives it do I give it to you.” Our Lady did not mean a period without wars, as many have misconstrued it, although there could be less of them if many do turn to God and reconcile with Him. Other earlier seers before Fatima, in speaking of a time of peace, can mean the period mentioned at Fatima but in most cases seem to mean the period of peace when the Kingdom comes in it fulfillment at the end of time. So it has to be discerned carefully.
Jesus said until the Final Harvest, the wheat and tares will exist side by side, so there will always be evil in the present world until the end. Many people mistake the use of the word conversion in apparitions to mean conversion to Catholicism, and so think the whole world will become Catholic at some point before the end of time. But to convert means to turn, so to convert to God means to turn , or return, back to God, like in the story of the prodigal son. It means to repent, and ask for forgiveness of sin. Again discernment is needed.

The catechism indicates that the ‘1000’ years of Rev 20 are figurative for the time of the preaching of the Gospel to all nations - ‘go and teach all nations’ - and the catechism indicates Jesus is reigning during this time from heaven. So no, the 1000 years is not to be taken literally.

God bless you.

 

[Monica4316]

Thank you for the reply… well there’s a part in Revelation that talks about those who did not follow the antichrist, living with Christ for a thousand years and then the general Resurrection of the dead happening. I dont know if this reign of Christ is literal or more spiritual.

Is it *infallibly *defined that Catholics should not believe in the 1000 year reign of Christ (whether literal or spiritual) ? Or is this more of a theological opinion? Because apparently some early Church Fathers believed it… or does it matter if it’s literal or spiritual?

 

[beehumble]

Thank you for the reply… well there’s a part in Revelation that talks about those who did not follow the antichrist, living with Christ for a thousand years and then the general Resurrection of the dead happening. I dont know if this reign of Christ is literal or more spiritual.

Is it *infallibly *defined that Catholics should not believe in the 1000 year reign of Christ (whether literal or spiritual) ? Or is this more of a theological opinion? Because apparently some early Church Fathers believed it… or does it matter if it’s literal or spiritual?

Those who did not follow the antichrist and are with Christ now are the Church Triumphant (see earlier post) - the saints in heaven now alongside Jesus Who is reigning from heaven now.

Not too many things are infallibly defined. From the CCC: *672 According to the Lord, the present time is the time of the Spirit and of witness, but also a time still marked by “distress” and the trial of evil which does not spare the Church and ushers in the struggles of the last days. It is a time of waiting and watching…680: Christ the Lord already reigns through the Church, but all the things of this world are not yet subjected to him. The triumph of Christ’s kingdom will not come about without one last assault by the powers of evil. 681: On Judgment Day at the end of the world, Christ will come in glory to achieve the definitive triumph of good over evil which, like the wheat and the tares, have grown up together in the course of history. * The early Church Fathers discussed these things but did not have the hindsight we have. Augustine eventually presented what has come to be called the amillenial position and this is the one most closely adopted by the Church. We now know that even past 1000 years sicne the Ascension, He still has not returned but is still reigning from heaven, so it has become more clear that the 1000 years is definitely symbolic as are most things of the Book of Revelation, and that the Augustinian view and Church view is more likely the correct view.

I would suggest people force upon their minds that the 1000 in Rev 20 is symbolic and work with that idea combined with the catechism to come to a better understanding. A literal 1000 year reign is rejected by the Church. So that leaves the spiritual reign. Is it literally 1000 years? Obviously not: Jesus is reigning from heaven, so one could say He reigns now spiritually on earth - in the Eucharist in particular. But obviously it has been more than 1000 years since He ascended to Heaven so the spiritual reign is already seen to be longer than a literal 1000 years. The passage of more than 1000 years in the history of man argues loudly against it being a literal 1000 year spiritual reign.

God bless you.

 

[Monica4316]

I find all this very confusing… the spiritual reign of Christ (if we’re talking about it happening in the future) sounds too much like Postmillenialism and isn’t that condemned by the Church… and a literal reign is Premillenialism… now I’m wondering if I’m a heretic but since the antichrist has not come yet, I don’t understand how that thousand years spoken about in Revelation could apply to our current time…

 

[beehumble]

I find all this very confusing… the spiritual reign of Christ (if we’re talking about it happening in the future) sounds too much like Postmillenialism and isn’t that condemned by the Church… and a literal reign is Premillenialism… now I’m wondering if I’m a heretic but since the antichrist has not come yet, I don’t understand how that thousand years spoken about in Revelation could apply to our current time… (since it’s supposed to be after the antichrist)

The spiritual reign is now, not future, as I posted earlier. I quoted the catechism on it above, did you not read it - perhaps one needs to read it again, carefully. If one jettisons the literal 1000 year idea it is simple, really. Christ ascended and reigns now spiritually from heaven with the saints - the Church Triumphant - and will return to earth at the end. Just before He returns, Satan will have one final short time to try to destroy the people of God, but will be defeated and thrown into hell. Then the dead will rise, all will be judged, and the unworthy will also be thrown into hell with Satan and his fallen angels. The rest live with God in the prefect restored (called “new” sometimes) world forever - heaven on earth.

God bless you.