Minimum components required for a mass to occur

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Digitonomy

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(On another thread, it was asked whether changes to the Eucharistic Prayer render the Eucharist invalid. (No, I said, so long as the words of institution are said, and the proper matter and intent are present) This led me to wonder what minimal requirements must be present for a mass to occur?)

If e.g. one of the apostles were transported here from A.D. 40 or so, his mass would certainly be more basic than what we are accustomed to, and illicit under current regulations, but it would also certainly be valid.

My theory is that so long as a valid Eucharist is confected, and a very brief Liturgy of the Word presented (perhaps just a short passage from scripture), a mass has taken place.

Have I overlooked any requirement, or perhaps included anything not required?
 
Any attempt at defining the minimal requirements for Mass is going to wind up being arbitrary, I think. I myself would require a penitential rite, some sort of reading(s), offertory prayers, the whole institution narrative, petitions/commemorations of the Eucharistic Prayer (i.e. we offer this for all here present, for those who have died, etc.), and the priest’s communion. I think that far more accurately gets at the substance of the Mass than simply some readings + “This is my Body” + “This is the cup of my Blood.”
 
Digitonomy said:
My theory is that so long as a valid Eucharist is confected, and a very brief Liturgy of the Word presented (perhaps just a short passage from scripture), a mass has taken place.

Have I overlooked any requirement, or perhaps included anything not required?
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I would like to reformulate the question slightly, to “What has to happen to discharge our Sunday privilege?” (Yes, privilege, not obligation :D)
We know that if we truly forget that it is Sunday, and so forget to go to Mass, we have not sinned (mortally, at least). Additionally, if we miss Mass, by perhaps an hour (could be any time-period, but I’m saying an hour to suggest a person has mistaken the time), our duty is discharged.
I would therefore suggest that the minimum we need to do (discounting the scenario of forgetting Mass altogether), is show up at the church at a time we truly expect Mass to be celebrated.
This has the implication that no matter how much the priest screws up/neglects/improvizes, as long as we are there, our Sunday privilege is fulfilled.

Of course, it is highly, highly preferable to have a fully rubrical Mass.
 
Attempting to attend the minimum required is a problem in itself. One should make every effort to attend the whole Mass from the entrance procession to the closing hymn. However, if you are doing your best to get there on time and not leaving early, then don’t be overly concerned.
 
I think a Priest can pray the Mass just by himself, by saying the consecration (no readings, liturgy of the word etc)… am I wrong?
 
Spirithound said:
I would like to reformulate the question slightly, to “What has to happen to discharge our Sunday privilege?”
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I wasn’t clear enough in my OP. By reformulating the question, you have completely changed it. My question is whether the mass “counts” as having taken place, so it doesn’t matter whether I’m late or don’t show up at all, or what day of the week this takes place on - the focus of my question is whether a mass has occurred.

Ignatius, same story.

Let us assume I’m talking about a mass on the morning of Tuesday, January 22, which I did not attend. Did a mass take place if there was no penitential rite? Did a mass take place if there was no offertory prayer? Et cetera.
 
mschrank said:
I think a Priest can pray the Mass just by himself, by saying the consecration (no readings, liturgy of the word etc)… am I wrong?
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I know priests can celebrate mass solo, as this was common back in the day when concelebration was prohibited, where there were more priests than public masses. I think it’s less common now, but I was not aware that the Liturgy of the Word was omitted. If that’s true, what other parts are omitted?
 
I was told for the mass to count you need to be there for the gospel.
 
Digitonomy said:
(On another thread, it was asked whether changes to the Eucharistic Prayer render the Eucharist invalid. (No, I said, so long as the words of institution are said, and the proper matter and intent are present) This led me to wonder what minimal requirements must be present for a mass to occur?)

If e.g. one of the apostles were transported here from A.D. 40 or so, his mass would certainly be more basic than what we are accustomed to, and illicit under current regulations, but it would also certainly be valid.

My theory is that so long as a valid Eucharist is confected, and a very brief Liturgy of the Word presented (perhaps just a short passage from scripture), a mass has taken place.

Have I overlooked any requirement, or perhaps included anything not required?
Click to expand...
In the Eastern Rites of the Catholic church, there are no Masses, only Divine Liturgies. The apostle wouldn’t even know why we would be calling it a “mass” and would probably wonder why the Kyrie is the only thing left in Greek.

It also depended on the Apostle. If the Apostle Thomas came to the future, he would have his authority as a Bishop, but he would still be subject to Peter’s successor, Pope Benedict XVI. The Apostle Thomas would have to learn Latin, the Tridentine Mass, and the Novus Ordo Mass.

If Peter came to the future, Peter would usher in a wholly different Latin Rite Liturgy.
 
There used to be a “rule of thumb” that in order for one to have satisfied his Sunday obligation, he had to be present for the Offertory, Consecration, and Communion of the priest.

Today, of course, we try not to draw such parameters and count the whole Mass as essential.
 
Digitonomy said:
I wasn’t clear enough in my OP. By reformulating the question, you have completely changed it. My question is whether the mass “counts” as having taken place, so it doesn’t matter whether I’m late or don’t show up at all, or what day of the week this takes place on - the focus of my question is whether a mass has occurred.

Ignatius, same story.

Let us assume I’m talking about a mass on the morning of Tuesday, January 22, which I did not attend. Did a mass take place if there was no penitential rite? Did a mass take place if there was no offertory prayer? Et cetera.
Click to expand...
Ah! You’ll get a variety of opinions here; For a precise question like that, you would be better off asking in the ‘Ask an Apologist’ section.
 
Wow…no one is actually reading the question posed…they are just assumming they understand it from the title.

I respectfully suggest the OP ask the moderator to change the title of the thread…something maybe like this:

“What is the minimum for a valid Mass” or something.
 
agapewolf said:
Wow…no one is actually reading the question posed…they are just assumming they understand it from the title.

I respectfully suggest the OP ask the moderator to change the title of the thread…something maybe like this:

“What is the minimum for a valid Mass” or something.
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Yeah, I did that last night, but there are doubtless more pressing issues than my poor choice of title.
 
Interesting. My late Great-Uncle “Uncle Norbert” was a life-long Catholic Priest. After his retirement, he moved into an apartment. When we moved him in, part of his furniture was a small “personal” altar. It was then I learned (according to him) that a priest was “required” to say Mass daily, even if alone. I never thought to ask him what the critical elements were.

But, I think I do grasp your question. Sorry I don’t have an answer.
 
Digitonomy said:
I wasn’t clear enough in my OP. By reformulating the question, you have completely changed it. My question is whether the mass “counts” as having taken place, so it doesn’t matter whether I’m late or don’t show up at all, or what day of the week this takes place on - the focus of my question is whether a mass has occurred.

Let us assume I’m talking about a mass on the morning of Tuesday, January 22, which I did not attend. Did a mass take place if there was no penitential rite? Did a mass take place if there was no offertory prayer? Et cetera.
Click to expand...
Ahh, I understand the question now. I try to get to the underlying assumptions that I think the poser of various questions holds, and I missed the mark somewhat this time.
So, as to the actual question, I honestly have no idea. 😃 😉 :cool:
 
pprimeau1976 said:
In the Eastern Rites of the Catholic church, there are no Masses, only Divine Liturgies. The apostle wouldn’t even know why we would be calling it a “mass” and would probably wonder why the Kyrie is the only thing left in Greek.

It also depended on the Apostle. If the Apostle Thomas came to the future, he would have his authority as a Bishop, but he would still be subject to Peter’s successor, Pope Benedict XVI. The Apostle Thomas would have to learn Latin, the Tridentine Mass, and the Novus Ordo Mass.

If Peter came to the future, Peter would usher in a wholly different Latin Rite Liturgy.
Click to expand...
St. Thomas would not have to learn the Roman Rite - he would, after all, obviously be Syro-Malabar!
 
Upon further reflection, I recall having “para-liturgies” in Catholic elementary school, which were Liturgies of the Word. So it would seem that a Mass requires Communion. But, “Communion services”, as spoken of here are not Masses, so it seems that a consecration is also necessary. I’m sure there are more necessary components.
 
Spirithound said:
But, “Communion services”, as spoken of here are not Masses, so it seems that a consecration is also necessary.
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I think it is without doubt that a consecration is necessary. Whether communion is required is not clear yet - Andreas Hofer believes it is, but if the priest were assassinated before consuming the Eucharist, or if government troops burst in and confiscated the Eucharist after consecration but before the priest consumed them, would it still qualify as a mass? I’m eager to hear what others have to say on this.

Whether a Liturgy of the Word is necessary is also up in the air, and we may be able to get some insight into how critical that and some of the other parts of the mass are if we can find out what is included when priests say a private mass, as Uncle Norbert and mschrank alluded to.
 
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