Minimum Requirements for Practising Catholics

[Avila123]

What are the minimum requirements for practising Catholics which will not imperil the soul?

The background is that last week the Hail Mary was dropped from the mass and replaced with a Latin song (only a few people knew it and we thought it was a one off) and this week, without notice the Lord Have Mercy was replaced with Latin (again, only a few knew it). We have been told that all Sunday masses will be part Latin and part English (even though only a handful of people speak the language). There are Latin masses for Latin speakers, in fact there were masses for most languages, but now it looks like the Church in our area sees no need to cater for native English people. I cannot fully participate in a mass, if I do not understand it; and refuse to offer vain and repetitious prayers.

I have emailed Father to ask why this is happening and if there will English masses offered for people who do not understand Latin. The whole thing is very distressing and frightening (it is one step away from Jesus saying “Go away, I don’t know you”), if the Church founded by Jesus rejects you then there is little hope and nowhere to go.

I do not think our parish priest has willingly done this and suspect it is from the Bishop. I just do not understand. All I can think of is trying to get to the root of what is the minimum requirements if the Church will not allow me to meet my obligations without compromising integrity.

 

[paperwight66]

What are the minimum requirements for practising Catholics which will not imperil the soul?

The background is that last week the Hail Mary was dropped from the mass and replaced with a Latin song (only a few people knew it and we thought it was a one off) and this week, without notice the Lord Have Mercy was replaced with Latin (again, only a few knew it). .

Are you sure it was Latin and not Greek - ‘Kyrie Eleison’?

If it was Kyrie Eleison, that is one of the allowed options.

As regards dropping the Hail Mary, apparently some liturgists do not think it is correct to have it at that stage - it certainly isn’t said all over the world (although I like it myself, as it is always introduced with some words like ‘Let us ask our Lady to pray with us and for us as we say…’.)

As regards increasing the amount of Latin, encouraging this was called for by the maligned Vatican 2 documents, so that we don’t lose our heritage, and also so that we can join in at international gatherings when there is no common language.

This doesn’t mean that the readings and homily are in Latin, though. Exactly how much has been changed by this priest?

 

[FabiusMaximus]

What are the minimum requirements for practising Catholics which will not imperil the soul?

The background is that last week the Hail Mary was dropped from the mass and replaced with a Latin song (only a few people knew it and we thought it was a one off) and this week, without notice the Lord Have Mercy was replaced with Latin (again, only a few knew it). We have been told that all Sunday masses will be part Latin and part English (even though only a handful of people speak the language). There are Latin masses for Latin speakers, in fact there were masses for most languages, but now it looks like the Church in our area sees no need to cater for native English people. I cannot fully participate in a mass, if I do not understand it; and refuse to offer vain and repetitious prayers.

I have emailed Father to ask why this is happening and if there will English masses offered for people who do not understand Latin. The whole thing is very distressing and frightening (it is one step away from Jesus saying “Go away, I don’t know you”), if the Church founded by Jesus rejects you then there is little hope and nowhere to go.

I do not think our parish priest has willingly done this and suspect it is from the Bishop. I just do not understand. All I can think of is trying to get to the root of what is the minimum requirements if the Church will not allow me to meet my obligations without compromising integrity.

I wish I were in your parish! I have a great love for Latin in Mass.

I don’t think attending any Mass, regardless of whether you understand the language in which it is celebrated, would imperil your soul, especially if you have the right intention. Practically speaking, you could go to a Mass in France or in Italy, and probably wouldn’t understand the Mass celebrated in either language, but you would still be fully participating in it and fulfilling your Sunday obligation, wouldn’t you?

The Church has celebrated Mass in Latin for hundreds of years, and while I understand your concern about not understanding, most people didn’t understand Latin before the 1960s, and I’m sure spiritually speaking, their souls were not imperiled.

 

[Usige]

I am a little confused about how interjecting some Latin into the Mass means that the Church “sees no need to cater for native English people”. You yourself say that it is one or two parts of the Mass. It sounds like you diocese is actually following the proclamations lain down over 50 years ago in the Constitution on the Divine Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium. In particular I am thinking of paragraph 2 of section 54 which states:

Nevertheless steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.

Does saying *amen *or alleluia mean you cannot participate in the Mass? Neither of these are English words. Today was the feast of Corpus Christi. Does using the Latin somehow make the feast less important? The whole purpose of Latin is that it is, or should be able to be, used throughout the Church so if you are in Spain, Germany or any other place you can raise you voice in unison with the rest of the faithful.

If you do not understand the exact translation of the Latin text then it is up to you to learn it. There are hundreds of resources on line that will show you word for word what the text means. Children should be taught their basic prayers in Latin but many simply ignore that part of our heritage. Simply injecting prayers that every Catholic should know in Latin is not turning their back on people. This is no more true than saying you are turning your back on the generations of Catholic who did use those prayers even when they did not speak fluent Latin.

So to your question in the title? A practicing catholic should be able to say the sign of the cross, our father, the creed and other responses in the Mass in Latin. They should also know common Latin hymns (Tantum Ergo Sacramentum, Salve Regina, Ave Verum Corpus, Pange Lingua, Regina Caeli, Ave Maria come to mind)

 

[Usige]

I don’t think attending any Mass, regardless of whether you understand the language in which it is celebrated, would imperil your soul, especially if you have the right intention. Practically speaking, you could go to a Mass in France or in Italy, and probably wouldn’t understand the Mass celebrated in either language, but you would still be fully participating in it and fulfilling your Sunday obligation, wouldn’t you?

Spot on. It seems people are okay with attending Mass in a foreign language when traveling, but somehow injecting a small bit of Latin is troublesome. The Mass is the Mass is the Mass regardless of the language it is in. Our participation or understanding of the language is essentially of no consequence in the grand scheme of things. Yes we should understand the Mass, but the Mass is so much more than just the language used.

 

[pianistclare]

What are the minimum requirements for practising Catholics which will not imperil the soul?

The background is that last week the Hail Mary was dropped from the mass and replaced with a Latin song (only a few people knew it and we thought it was a one off) and this week, without notice the Lord Have Mercy was replaced with Latin (again, only a few knew it). We have been told that all Sunday masses will be part Latin and part English (even though only a handful of people speak the language). There are Latin masses for Latin speakers, in fact there were masses for most languages, but now it looks like the Church in our area sees no need to cater for native English people. I cannot fully participate in a mass, if I do not understand it; and refuse to offer vain and repetitious prayers.

I have emailed Father to ask why this is happening and if there will English masses offered for people who do not understand Latin. The whole thing is very distressing and frightening (it is one step away from Jesus saying “Go away, I don’t know you”), if the Church founded by Jesus rejects you then there is little hope and nowhere to go.

I do not think our parish priest has willingly done this and suspect it is from the Bishop. I just do not understand. All I can think of is trying to get to the root of what is the minimum requirements if the Church will not allow me to meet my obligations without compromising integrity.

Ok friend. Now that you have that off your chest, calm yourself.
All will be well.
I’m sure the Penitential Rite ( Kyrie ) was in Greek, not Latin, and is correctly and licitly done that way elsewhere, so it’s fine.
If they offer English only Masses, go.
I myself dislike Latin Masses. But I know many long for them. You priest is not “pandering” to anyone nor should he. I think some quiet reflection is in order. Be not afraid nor angry. That’s exactly where the prince of lies would like you to be.
I get that you don’t understand. But honestly, there has been nothing wrong with what is happening. The priest clearly understand that that it will not be accepted well by some and he has made provisions. Far worse if he just upended everything. The Church in England appears to be suffering. Perhaps this is an attempt to return to full churches? Who knows? All I know is that we must give thanks for the Mass and the Eucharist.
You’ll be fine.
All will be well.
Peace friend.
We love you and are praying for you.

 

[HB11]

I am a little confused about how interjecting some Latin into the Mass means that the Church “sees no need to cater for native English people”. You yourself say that it is one or two parts of the Mass. It sounds like you diocese is actually following the proclamations lain down over 50 years ago in the Constitution on the Divine Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium. In particular I am thinking of paragraph 2 of section 54 which states:
Does saying *amen *or alleluia mean you cannot participate in the Mass? Neither of these are English words. Today was the feast of Corpus Christi. Does using the Latin somehow make the feast less important? The whole purpose of Latin is that it is, or should be able to be, used throughout the Church so if you are in Spain, Germany or any other place you can raise you voice in unison with the rest of the faithful.

If you do not understand the exact translation of the Latin text then it is up to you to learn it. There are hundreds of resources on line that will show you word for word what the text means. Children should be taught their basic prayers in Latin but many simply ignore that part of our heritage. Simply injecting prayers that every Catholic should know in Latin is not turning their back on people. This is no more true than saying you are turning your back on the generations of Catholic who did use those prayers even when they did not speak fluent Latin.

So to your question in the title? A practicing catholic should be able to say the sign of the cross, our father, the creed and other responses in the Mass in Latin. They should also know common Latin hymns (Tantum Ergo Sacramentum, Salve Regina, Ave Verum Corpus, Pange Lingua, Regina Caeli, Ave Maria come to mind)

 

[1ke]

What are the minimum requirements for practising Catholics which will not imperil the soul?

If you are asking if you have to go to Mass on Sundays and Holy Days whether you are happy about the liturgy or not, the answer is yes,

The background is that last week the Hail Mary was dropped from the mass

The Hail Mary is not part of the Mass at all.

Sounds like it was being included where it should not be:

A spokesman for Bishop Conry said: “Bishop Kieran has recently reminded his clergy that the Hail Mary should not be included in the Prayers of the Faithful in line with the sample prayers provided in the Third Edition of the Roman Missal, the guidance provided by the bishops’ conference liturgy office, and his own previous Guidelines for Prayers of the Faithful issued in 2005

without notice the Lord Have Mercy was replaced with Latin

The Kyrie is Greek, not Latin, and is one of several forms of the penitential rite.

We have been told that all Sunday masses will be part Latin and part English

Which is as it should be, actually. Reading the documents on the sacred liturgy produced during Vatican II makes that clear, as does reading just about all documents produced since then.

but now it looks like the Church in our area sees no need to cater for native English people

You don’t have a liturgy problem, you have an education problem in your parish. Encourage your pastor to do more education for the laity on the Mass.

I cannot fully participate in a mass, if I do not understand it;

Yes, you can.

and refuse to offer vain and repetitious prayers.

Wow,

I have emailed Father to ask why this is happening and if there will English masses offered for people who do not understand Latin.

Ask Father to better explain the Latin prayers, also there are numerous worship aids to help you sing and recite the prayers.

I do not think our parish priest has willingly done this and suspect it is from the Bishop. I just do not understand

Yes, it is difficult when someone steps in to have things done correctly after years of it being done else wise.

Education and communication seem to be lacking. Encourage your pastor to do a study of the liturgy with your parish. We had many resources available for the parish for months before the third edition of the Missal came out a few years ago. Those resources are available still.

All I can think of is trying to get to the root of what is the minimum requirements if the Church will not allow me to meet my obligations without compromising integrity.

Again, wow.

Yes, your obligation is to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days, regardless of what language it may be in.

Talk to your pastor, but perhaps without such melodrama attached. Open your heart to what your pastor has to say rather than going in with this attitude.

 

[1ke]

I myself dislike Latin Masses.

One song in Latin a few weeks ago and one Kyrie in the penitential rite do not a Latin Mass make.

 

[Avila123]

In general, my answers are:

Sorry, I am still frazzled - it was the Lamb of God that was changed to Latin.

It was a shock, especially as our priest knows that very few of us speak or understand Latin. He also knows his parishioners and had the opportunity to warn people. Our Bishop wanted a Latin song sung after mass earlier in the year other people complained and asked for English, and before I could add my voice, our priest announced very joyfully (and with relief) that as it was Lent we didn’t have to sing it.

No effort has been made by the Diocese to encourage or teach people Latin, in fact the emphasis has been on living the faith and learning the faith.

On the issue of what a good Catholic is supposed to know - be able to memorise prayers or obtain knowledge by osmosis is not reality. Surely it is about learning and living the faith, worshiping God and following Jesus? Learning liturgical Latin (which I understand isn’t the same as Latin Latin) is not the key to our faith, yes it is part of Church history and it is being preserved by those who want to preserve it. Inflicting it on the unwilling drives people away - it is the reason I have no devotion to the Blessed Mother and why I detest (and that is not over-strong) the rosary.

It is serious for me as I understand participation in the mass to be 100% and as a catechist I am under very close scrutiny by parents and children. How can I encourage and teach participating in the mass, if I don’t. I had a huge amount of exciting work planned to sharpen up the First Holy Communion Preparation class next year but I cannot see how I can do that if I don’t understand the mass (or rather bits of it) and am excluded?

As for learning Latin, when would I do that? If you knew what I do, you would be hard pressed to find the time for me to set aside. Even now I am doing another online ministry and rescheduling our adult faith-based evening, as I type here. Our parish has no money, which is why the few volunteers buy everything out of their wages or pensions.

The whole thing is a shock and the lack of warning is not what I would call considerate. I am praying that this will go away like the earlier Latin song and then if there is a desire and/or need for Latin that it will be brought in properly and the rest of us can have our traditional reverent and prayerful English mass.

By the way, when I when I go on holiday I look for an English mass before I book the holiday - no mass = no holiday.

 

[Jon_S_1]

What are the minimum requirements for practising Catholics which will not imperil the soul?

I do not understand how your background below related to this question.

The background is that last week the Hail Mary was dropped from the mass and replaced with a Latin song (only a few people knew it and we thought it was a one off)

The Hail Mary is not part of the mass although it is sometimes piously said following mass.

and this week, without notice the Lord Have Mercy was replaced with Latin (again, only a few knew it). We have been told that all Sunday masses will be part Latin and part English (even though only a handful of people speak the language).

Likely it was Greek not Latin. “Kyrie Eleison, Christi Eleison, Kyrie Elaison”.

There ! read it a few times and you’ve learned it!!!

There are Latin masses for Latin speakers, in fact there were masses for most languages, but now it looks like the Church in our area sees no need to cater for native English people. I cannot fully participate in a mass, if I do not understand it; and refuse to offer vain and repetitious prayers.

How is this vain or repetitive?

I am not aware of Latin speakers, but Latin is the language of the church. The Second Vatican Council allowed English and other languages but it was supposed to be limited. Retaining Latin in the liturgy while also using the vernacular is how it is supposed to be. It sounds like your bishop and priest might have actually read the second Vatican councils document on liturgy and are trying to apply it correctly. You can read it below.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html

I have emailed Father to ask why this is happening and if there will English masses offered for people who do not understand Latin. The whole thing is very distressing and frightening (it is one step away from Jesus saying “Go away, I don’t know you”), if the Church founded by Jesus rejects you then there is little hope and nowhere to go.

That’s a bit dramatic…change is hard for some people, but we should not make crisis that don’t need to be made.

I do not think our parish priest has willingly done this and suspect it is from the Bishop. I just do not understand. All I can think of is trying to get to the root of what is the minimum requirements if the Church will not allow me to meet my obligations without compromising integrity.

"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. …] Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. …] Whatsoever [the bishop] shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.” (St. Ignatius: Letter to the Smyrnaeans; Ch 8)

 

[Jon_S_1]

In general, my answers are:

Sorry, I am still frazzled - it was the Lamb of God that was changed to Latin.

It was a shock, especially as our priest knows that very few of us speak or understand Latin. He also knows his parishioners and had the opportunity to warn people. Our Bishop wanted a Latin song sung after mass earlier in the year other people complained and asked for English, and before I could add my voice, our priest announced very joyfully (and with relief) that as it was Lent we didn’t have to sing it.

No effort has been made by the Diocese to encourage or teach people Latin, in fact the emphasis has been on living the faith and learning the faith.

On the issue of what a good Catholic is supposed to know - be able to memorise prayers or obtain knowledge by osmosis is not reality. Surely it is about learning and living the faith, worshiping God and following Jesus? Learning liturgical Latin (which I understand isn’t the same as Latin Latin) is not the key to our faith, yes it is part of Church history and it is being preserved by those who want to preserve it. Inflicting it on the unwilling drives people away - it is the reason I have no devotion to the Blessed Mother and why I detest (and that is not over-strong) the rosary.

It is serious for me as I understand participation in the mass to be 100% and as a catechist I am under very close scrutiny by parents and children. How can I encourage and teach participating in the mass, if I don’t. I had a huge amount of exciting work planned to sharpen up the First Holy Communion Preparation class next year but I cannot see how I can do that if I don’t understand the mass (or rather bits of it) and am excluded?

As for learning Latin, when would I do that? If you knew what I do, you would be hard pressed to find the time for me to set aside. Even now I am doing another online ministry and rescheduling our adult faith-based evening, as I type here. Our parish has no money, which is why the few volunteers buy everything out of their wages or pensions.

The whole thing is a shock and the lack of warning is not what I would call considerate. I am praying that this will go away like the earlier Latin song and then if there is a desire and/or need for Latin that it will be brought in properly and the rest of us can have our traditional reverent and prayerful English mass.

By the way, when I when I go on holiday I look for an English mass before I book the holiday - no mass = no holiday.

As a catechists you should frankly already know this. Perhaps the priest is trying to educate his congregation.

It is not difficult to learn a few Latin phrases. A simple Internet search or opening of a book and you can learn the angus dei in 5 mins.

Maybe try to be a little more proactive. Create a cheat sheet for your students and other parishioners with the Latin and English side by side.

Learning is important. Learning a few Latin phrases is just as important as learning the English phrases…maybe more so because it allows you to participate in mass anywhere.

 

[Fuerza]

In general, my answers are:

Sorry, I am still frazzled - it was the Lamb of God that was changed to Latin.

It was a shock, especially as our priest knows that very few of us speak or understand Latin. He also knows his parishioners and had the opportunity to warn people. Our Bishop wanted a Latin song sung after mass earlier in the year other people complained and asked for English, and before I could add my voice, our priest announced very joyfully (and with relief) that as it was Lent we didn’t have to sing it.

No effort has been made by the Diocese to encourage or teach people Latin, in fact the emphasis has been on living the faith and learning the faith.

On the issue of what a good Catholic is supposed to know - be able to memorise prayers or obtain knowledge by osmosis is not reality. Surely it is about learning and living the faith, worshiping God and following Jesus? Learning liturgical Latin (which I understand isn’t the same as Latin Latin) is not the key to our faith, yes it is part of Church history and it is being preserved by those who want to preserve it. Inflicting it on the unwilling drives people away - it is the reason I have no devotion to the Blessed Mother and why I detest (and that is not over-strong) the rosary.

It is serious for me as I understand participation in the mass to be 100% and as a catechist I am under very close scrutiny by parents and children. How can I encourage and teach participating in the mass, if I don’t. I had a huge amount of exciting work planned to sharpen up the First Holy Communion Preparation class next year but I cannot see how I can do that if I don’t understand the mass (or rather bits of it) and am excluded?

As for learning Latin, when would I do that? If you knew what I do, you would be hard pressed to find the time for me to set aside. Even now I am doing another online ministry and rescheduling our adult faith-based evening, as I type here. Our parish has no money, which is why the few volunteers buy everything out of their wages or pensions.

The whole thing is a shock and the lack of warning is not what I would call considerate. I am praying that this will go away like the earlier Latin song and then if there is a desire and/or need for Latin that it will be brought in properly and the rest of us can have our traditional reverent and prayerful English mass.

By the way, when I when I go on holiday I look for an English mass before I book the holiday - no mass = no holiday.

I do not mean to sound condescending, but are you saying that because Lamb of God, a prayer with which I suspect you are very familiar, was changed to Agnus Dei, that you suddenly no longer know what it means? As others have suggested, I would recommend that you take some time to learn simple prayers like the Sanctus and Agnus Dei in Latin, as well as the Kyrie in Greek (that one literally requires you to learn 3 words). I suspect that learning these prayers, along with the Pater Noster, would take about 15 minutes, maybe 20 if you’re tired. Give it a shot.

 

[peter26]

I imagine the Latin song in place of the Hail Mary was the Salve Regina. That is the Hail Holy Queen in Latin. Latin has been used for hundreds of years in the Latin Rite of the Church. It would be better to become better informed about Latin and its use in the liturgy rather than complaining about it. There are some of us who would love to have some of the Mass in Latin. Maybe if you take the trouble to learn it, you will enjoy it. If not, just offer it up!

 

[Usige]

As for learning Latin, when would I do that? If you knew what I do, you would be hard pressed to find the time for me to set aside. Even now I am doing another online ministry and rescheduling our adult faith-based evening, as I type here. Our parish has no money, which is why the few volunteers buy everything out of their wages or pensions.

You do not have to learn Latin so much as learn how to pronounce the prayers. The Agnus Dei meaning is no different in Latin than it is in English.

As for time? While I feel sorry for you, I’m not sure I feel sympathy for you. I was not raised Catholic, but in less that a year I learned the parts of the Mass, Catholic prayers in Latin and English, dogmas and doctrines of the Church, and raised a family while working full time. I never used the excuse that I couldn’t find time to learn about the faith, but rather found time out of love of God.

I am still raising a young family of 7 while in formation to the diaconate. This includes adding extensive reading, spiritual direction, and an extra hour of prayer each day, all on top of various practicums. I still find time to work, pray, worship and all the other things I used to do. If it is something you make a priority then you find the time. On the other hand if you don’t care then I guess you find excuses.

My apologies if that sounds harsh, but my 5 and 7 year old kids learned 3 or 4 Latin prayers in about 6 weeks with maybe 5 - 10 minutes of practice each day. Saying that you don’t have time is really saying it isn’t worth your time. Is it detrimental to your soul if you do not learn Latin prayers? No. But it is prideful to say that you don’t want to obey your pastor or bishop and hope it just goes away. It is pride that says I know better than those set in authority to lead me by the Lord.

Learning liturgical Latin … is not the key to our faith, yes it is part of Church history and it is being preserved by those who want to preserve it. Inflicting it on the unwilling drives people away - it is the reason I have no devotion to the Blessed Mother and why I detest (and that is not over-strong) the rosary.

It is not preserved only for those who want to. The Mass is written in Latin and translated into other languages out of convenience; not the other way around. We belong to the Latin Church and use the Latin Rite. The whole of the liturgy is actually steeped in Latin. The word Mass itself derives from Latin and means “to send”.

It is also odd that your original post bemoans dropping the Hail Mary, but you detest the rosary and Marian devotions. Tradition does not drive away people. People chose to leave because they don’t want to be bothered to put for effort. The mere phrase “minimum requirements” is a sad statement. Why would we want to focus on doing the minimum to love the Lord and by extension His Mother.

It is serious for me as I understand participation in the mass to be 100% and as a catechist I am under very close scrutiny by parents and children. How can I encourage and teach participating in the mass, if I don’t. I had a huge amount of exciting work planned to sharpen up the First Holy Communion Preparation class next year but I cannot see how I can do that if I don’t understand the mass (or rather bits of it) and am excluded?

Ignorance of history is ignorance of the traditions of the Church. The Church did not spring from whole cloth when the Mass of Paul VI was promulgated. As a catechist it is your duty to understand the Mass. You have an obligation to teach children about the history of the Church and that includes the Latin heritage. Instead of looking to be more creative in catechism you can spare some time to learn about why the fathers of Vatican II insisted that we learn and retain Latin.

The whole thing is a shock and the lack of warning is not what I would call considerate. I am praying that this will go away like the earlier Latin song and then if there is a desire and/or need for Latin that it will be brought in properly and the rest of us can have our traditional reverent and prayerful English mass.

Most of the Bishops and priests that are younger are tending more towards reintroducing things like Latin and traditional practices. They see that we are losing our Catholic identity and are working to remind people that our history didn’t start at our baptism, but rather stretches back 2000 years to Christ.

 

[Isca]

One of our priests in the UK frequently includes Latin in the Mass. I do understand it because of my schooldays, but as a relatively new Catholic I can’t always join in as I didn’t learn any Catholic prayers or hymns as a child. It doesn’t matter, I just listen and join in where I can.

I attend Mass here in Italy with very little understanding of the language - I have no idea what the priest says in his homily, except it’s related to the Mass readings for the day. If you want to travel, there’s no need to miss out on seeing a country just because you can’t find a Mass in English! You can get various translations of the Order of Mass online for free if you just do a little search around, and if you have your Missal with you, it’s very easy to follow both.

I’ve attended Mass numerous times in French and Italian churches since I became a Catholic two years ago. There isn’t a problem, we are all Catholics and you learn so much by experiencing the diversity of the way our faith is practised across the world. The differences should be celebrated, not avoided. And at the end of the day, the Mass is the Mass.

 

[Scottgun]

I’ve had to put up with some incredibly dumbed-down masses here in the States. Jokey homilies, idle chit-chat in the pews, trivial music that sounds like it belongs on a merry-go-round, and whole platoons of immodestly-dressed EMHCs swarming the altar. But in spite of all that, it has never occurred to me not to go or adopt a policy of Catholic minimalism because ultimately it’s about worshipping God and not my personal edification. Be grateful.

 

[Phemie]

That someone who claims to be a catechist actually posted that boggles the mind.

 

[Corki]

What are the minimum requirements for practising Catholics which will not imperil the soul?

The background is that last week the Hail Mary was dropped from the mass and replaced with a Latin song (only a few people knew it and we thought it was a one off) and this week, without notice the Lord Have Mercy was replaced with Latin (again, only a few knew it). We have been told that all Sunday masses will be part Latin and part English (even though only a handful of people speak the language). There are Latin masses for Latin speakers, in fact there were masses for most languages, but now it looks like the Church in our area sees no need to cater for native English people. I cannot fully participate in a mass, if I do not understand it; and refuse to offer vain and repetitious prayers.

I have emailed Father to ask why this is happening and if there will English masses offered for people who do not understand Latin. The whole thing is very distressing and frightening (it is one step away from Jesus saying “Go away, I don’t know you”), if the Church founded by Jesus rejects you then there is little hope and nowhere to go.

I do not think our parish priest has willingly done this and suspect it is from the Bishop. I just do not understand. All I can think of is trying to get to the root of what is the minimum requirements if the Church will not allow me to meet my obligations without compromising integrity.

As part of the reforms of Vatican II, all bishops were charged with making sure that all Catholics in their care knew enough Latin to follow the common parts of the Mass (or Greek in the case of the Kyrie). Many, if not most, bishops have been very lax in fulfilling this important responsibility. Sadly, it seems that you fell into the group of Catholics who did not have enough prior exposure to liturgical Latin to be able to say the prayers. That’s not your fault. If this is coming from your pastor, he is trying to step up and fill a void. If coming from your Bishop, consider yourself VERY fortunate.

However, one must not say anything aloud or even understand the individual words in order to participate at Mass, let alone fulfill your Sunday obligation. Travelers and new immigrants often attend Masses in which they understand none of the words. To fully participate, all that is necessary is to join your prayers to those of the priest celebrating the Mass. To fulfill your Sunday obligation, the “minimum requirement” is to** attend** Mass.

… and refuse to offer vain and repetitious prayers.

The prayers are exactly the same no matter what language they are spoken in. A prayer in Latin is certainly no more “vain” than the same prayer said in English.

 

[LaetenturCaeli]

As for learning Latin, when would I do that?

You don’t have to spend 15 years becoming fluent in Latin in order to understand a handful of prayers or hymns. You’re clearly an articulate and very intelligent person. This is a minimum time investment.

Print out some prayers in Latin and English and look them over in your spare time. You’ll get the hang of things in no time.

Having said that, there seems to be a lot more here than merely being worried about time, no? I wonder what the real problem here is.