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Penny_Plain
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Absolutely vile.
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Franciscan
Guest
I think the statement walks a fine line. Sometimes it gets close to crossing BUT it was carefully worded. What exactly disgusts you?
I don’t have a problem with it.It’s fine if you consider it is addressed to those who have gay inclinations or temptations but do not act out but instead carry the cross of celibacy and abstinence.
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Timidity
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rlg94086
Guest
It would be better if it mentioned “giving support to help them live a chaste life” or something to that effect. You are correct that it is obviously walking a fine line.
I have problems with them using the word “gay” as that usually signifies an active lifestyle. Also, the rainbow symbol is an activist symbol for acceptance of the gay lifestyle as normal.
The real question is how this ministry deals with the teaching of chastity. Accepting people “where they are” is fine (Jesus did it) as long as you also still teach that homosexual acts are a sin and call them to chastity. IOW…confession, contrition, repentance…even if they struggle but are trying to live a chaste life.
I have problems with them using the word “gay” as that usually signifies an active lifestyle. Also, the rainbow symbol is an activist symbol for acceptance of the gay lifestyle as normal.
The real question is how this ministry deals with the teaching of chastity. Accepting people “where they are” is fine (Jesus did it) as long as you also still teach that homosexual acts are a sin and call them to chastity. IOW…confession, contrition, repentance…even if they struggle but are trying to live a chaste life.
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Penny_Plain
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Yes.
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Franciscan
Guest
True.Nice analysis.
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bones_IV
Guest
This rainbow fish is nothing more than a symbol that the LA archdiocese accepts the homosexual lifestyle. Otherwise, there would be no need for a “lifestyle symbol” such as the rainbow to be included. Once again, Cardinal Mahoney has proven to be a great enemy of the traditional faith. Remember when he had his feud with Mother Angelica over his document on the “community dinner”, I mean the Eucharist.
Fr. Benedict Groeschel once said in a homily at Holy Name in Providence: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GAY/LESBIAN MINISTRY! THAT IS AN OXYMORON WITH HIGH STRESS ON THE LAST TWO SYLLABLES OF THE WORD “OXYMORON”.
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Riley259
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I agree that the statement walks an extremely fine line. The words are very carefully chosen so as not to offend anyone but I never really quite understood where they truly stand. It never once directly stated that Church teaching regarding homosexuality has to be followed. In a link to groups for parents of gays and lesbians there is a statement about “outdated Church teachings” but it never gets specific. I hope someone in that archdiocese gets clarification on exactly where the Cardinal stands in regards to issues of homosexuality. Does he support the group “Courage” and does he insist that chastity and abstinence always be the norm for these individuals?
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Other_Eric
Guest
The statement is vile in that it completely skirts the most relevant issue in regard to evangelizing those with same-sex attractions. Chastity. As such, it is inherently deceptive. There is no such thing as a living a full Catholic life without being chaste. A proper ministry to people such as these begins and ends with the oft-repeated fact that same-sex attractions are pathological, destructive and can lead to nothing other than evil.
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setter
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It is a misnomer and degradation to refer to or to label anyone in Christ as “our lesbian and gay sisters and brothers.” a person reborn in Jesus Christ through the baptismal waters is never identified by their disordered desires. More properly, they are brothers and sisters in the Lord who struggle with same sex attraction. In today’s political climate I highly suspect any church outreach ministry that does not explicitly state chastity as the prerequisite goal for “people of faith who promote justice and inclusivity for every person in their faith communities”.
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Penny_Plain
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So should Catholic parishes sponsor Alcoholics Anonymous groups, in which members identify themselves as alcoholics?
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dapper
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What a great service! I am not being sarcastic!
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Dale_M
Guest
I don’t think its necessary to hit folks with a two by four. Start with the basics… first get them wanting to in live a full Catholic life before you stress the difficult message.
The statement seems well written to me.
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bones_IV
Guest
That is quite objectionable!
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LilyM
Guest
The website appears to teeter on the fence - it does, for example, mention living ‘consonant with Church teaching’, and you don’t need to be Einstein to know that the Church teaches that active homosexuality is sinful.
The rainbow symbol worries me a little, since it is most usually associated with more militant promotion of the gay lifestyle than I as a Catholic would be comfortable with.
So does the idea of a ‘lesbian prayer group’ (is it really necessary for any prayer group to identify as being exclusively for homosexuals or lesbians? :ehh: )
Though I suppose one could view this as along the same lines of a support group for schizophrenics or alcoholics or such - people who identify as having a particular PROBLEM rather than a trait that they’re proud of and promoting
The rainbow symbol worries me a little, since it is most usually associated with more militant promotion of the gay lifestyle than I as a Catholic would be comfortable with.
So does the idea of a ‘lesbian prayer group’ (is it really necessary for any prayer group to identify as being exclusively for homosexuals or lesbians? :ehh: )
Though I suppose one could view this as along the same lines of a support group for schizophrenics or alcoholics or such - people who identify as having a particular PROBLEM rather than a trait that they’re proud of and promoting
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rlg94086
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Well, you would have to hit them fairly soon after they show up. They would need to know that they are in a state of mortal sin and receiving the Eucharist would be sacrilege.
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Dale_M
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You’ve got a point there.
I think a ministry to men and women with SSA would be difficult to do well. I certainly don’t have the tact and insight.
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setter
Guest
I can see your obvious point. A person at an AA meeting identifying them self as a “recovering alcoholic” is expressing detachment from their disease and also that their addiction was most pervasive, i.e., that person is no longer engaging in the activity or lifestyle that led to their moral and otherwise decay.
Though similar, one’s sexuality is much more integral to the makeup to one’s identity, and hence, I believe more care is needed to separate the dignity of the person made in the image and likeness of God from the disorder and sinful inclination. While drinking alcohol does not always result in immorality, the only expression given to SSA is intrinsically disordered and gravely immoral, i.e., SSA is a moral disorder in itself.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html
2332 Sexuality affects all aspects of the human person in the unity of his body and soul. It especially concerns affectivity, the capacity to love and to procreate, and in a more general way the aptitude for forming bonds of communion with others. (Catechism of the Catholic Church)
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Kendy
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Do you have a link to that feud.
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