Ministry with Lesbian and Gay Catholics

[fix]

Do you have a link to that feud.

Please see this:

aquinas-multimedia.com/catherine/angelica.html

 

[decn2b]

I noticed that the Archdiocese of LA has a SPecial ministry that is directed towards gays and lesbians.

What a wonderful thing!!!

I am curious though? When are they going to start their ministry for Pedophiles and Rapists?

Are those people not as important as gays?

Am I missing somthing here?

Why does one sinful lifestyle get more attention that other sinful lifestyles?

 

[JimO]

The Church has an approved ministry to gays and lesbians that emphasizes a celebate lifestyle and helps them cope with their temptations. The ministry states clearly that any sexual act outside of marriage between one man and one woman is sinful. This is the only acceptable ministry for homosexuals. I’m not sure what program your diocese has, but there are programs that violate the Church’s teaching and either encourage the lifestyle or ignore sinful behavior.

We are all sinners and mortal sin is mortal sin; hell is hell. The person in hell for living an adulterous life will be no happier than the one who is in hell for living an actively homosexual life or the one who is in hell for desecrating the Eucharist, etc. The Church should minister to all sinners as long as the ministry makes it clear what is sin and that sin is unacceptable.

My understanding that the goal of the ministry is to keep those with homosexual temptations from sinning and to encourage them to live pure lives of faith. How can that be a bad thing?

 

[Dale_M]

Are those people not as important as gays?

Am I missing somthing here?

You might be missing the bigger picture. Certainly, all of us are equally important to God (and the Church). But if persons with SSA are 10% of the population, then its a sizeable population carrying a specific cross and the Church would do well to specifically address it.

 

[b_justb]

I noticed that the Archdiocese of LA has a SPecial ministry that is directed towards gays and lesbians.

What a wonderful thing!!!

I am curious though? When are they going to start their ministry for Pedophiles and Rapists?

Are those people not as important as gays?

Am I missing somthing here?

Why does one sinful lifestyle get more attention that other sinful lifestyles?

Yes you are missing something here.

Grace.

Pedophiles and Rapists are serious criminals using sexual acts as a control measure over their victims. Homosexual behavior is misguided and misunderstood love. Ministry to people that are misguided, helps heal them. I am assuming that the parish already has a prison ministry to help the Pedophiles and Rapists come to repentance.

If you are really going to be a Deacon take on the person of Christ and look to assist the sinner to hear the Holy Spirit and repent, do not castigate them. We get enough of that from a variety of sources.

 

[decn2b]

So I guess I am assuming right then that you think the church should turn away and not offer pedophiles and rapists the same care they give to Homosexuals? Not all pedophiles act on thier “attraction” Homosexual acts are certainly sinful.

SO a pedophile who has not acted on his/her impulses is still less important than a person with SSA?

Just as in Rape and in pedophilia, Homosexal acts involve a victim.

My point is no certain group of people should get any extra special attention. Why does LA diocese single out Gays when there are other predispositions that are as equally as prevalent.
The whole thing just stinks.

 

[Penny_Plain]

My point is no certain group of people should get any extra special attention. Why does LA diocese single out Gays when there are other predispositions that are as equally as prevalent.

The whole thing just stinks.

So you’d eliminate any special ministry – youth ministry, ministry to the elderly, and so forth – on the grounds that no certain group of people should get any extra special attention?

That can’t possibly be what you’re saying. Maybe what you’re saying is that you’d eliminate extra special attention for people you view as deviants – people like prisoners, alcoholics, and homosexuals. But the works of mercy instruct us to visit the imprisoned and comfort the afflicted, and I don’t remember anything that allowed us to distinguish between the “nice” imprisoned and the “nasty” imprisoned or the “nice” sick (you know, with chicken pox and stuff) and the “nasty” sick (who suffer from AIDS, alcoholism, and so forth).

So maybe, at the end of the day, we’re supposed to minister to and welcome every kind of sinner except … homosexuals?

Something stinks, that’s for sure.

 

[Penny_Plain]

I can see your obvious point. A person at an AA meeting identifying them self as a “recovering alcoholic” is expressing detachment from their disease and also that their addiction was most pervasive, i.e.,** that person is no longer engaging in the activity or lifestyle that led to their moral and otherwise decay**.

That’s not my understanding of AA at all. People who go to AA meetings identify themselves as alcoholics. By doing so, they mean to state that alcoholism is a central and inescapable part of who they are as a person.

And many of them are still engaging in the “alcoholic lifestyle,” whatever that is.

 

[LilyM]

That’s not my understanding of AA at all. People who go to AA meetings identify themselves as alcoholics. By doing so, they mean to state that alcoholism is a central and inescapable part of who they are as a person.

And many of them are still engaging in the “alcoholic lifestyle,” whatever that is.

Inescapable? Aren’t the alcoholics there at AA to try and conquer their alcoholism so eventually they’re NOT drinking any more?? How are they saying it’s inescapable?

They appear to me to be in precisely the same position as people with SSA - the attraction is disordered but not sinful, the behaviour is avoidable and treatable and the Church endorses groups such as AA where the problem is acknowledged and treatment and counselling are provided.

It’s not like they’re saying ‘we’re alcoholic but can’t and won’t ever change or stop drinking so just get used to us’ or anything of the sort. I hope and imagine that this Gay and Lesbian ministry is in the same vein.

 

[Penny_Plain]

Inescapable? Aren’t the alcoholics there at AA to try and conquer their alcoholism so eventually they’re NOT drinking any more?? How are they saying it’s inescapable?

Because they’re still alcoholics, even if they never touch another drop.

They appear to me to be in precisely the same position as people with SSA - the attraction is disordered but not sinful, the behaviour is avoidable and treatable and the Church endorses groups such as AA where the problem is acknowledged and treatment and counselling are provided.

Good Lord. That’s exactly my point.

It’s not like they’re saying ‘we’re alcoholic but can’t and won’t ever change or stop drinking so just get used to us’ or anything of the sort. I hope and imagine that this Gay and Lesbian ministry is in the same vein.

That’s certainly what it says it is. Some of the posters seem to think they know better.

 

[Abira]

What a wonderful thing!!!

I am curious though? When are they going to start their ministry for Pedophiles and Rapists?

Are those people not as important as gays?

Am I missing somthing here?

Why does one sinful lifestyle get more attention that other sinful lifestyles?

ok, I think a previous post had it right when they said that instead of thinking in terms of labels, we should think about people as individuals.

this above post hurt me so much I can’t tell you. This is something I will have to struggle with all my life… but what hurt me was that a rapist takes from someone who is not willing, as does a paedophile. even though I have done things that are wrong, I would never violently take away someone’s dignity in this manner and the fact that a logicalk jump was made from homosexuality to rape and paedophili made me feel sick.

I have made mistakes… and I don’t mind if anyone wants to understand this issue as it relates to an individual but I’m not putting myself up for judgement from any of you.

SSA I believe can never be altered. It is something I cannot change. The question now is: how do I live my life. I started reading this thread…and some of the words that hit me were: VILE, DISGUST…

How can I now engage with this when words of hatred are used so thoughtlessly? I try to live at the moment without having sex, but my attraction will always be there…

I place these sins alongside adultery, masturbation, lust etc etc…but words such as vile and disgust would not be used in judgement against these sins because they are more widespread sins which heterosexuals can relate to.

I think some people here would benefit from trying to relate to something outside of their own experiences and realise that even though we all sin; how many of us at a young age are offered such an ultimatum:

chastity or sin, and nothing in between… how many of you would have accepted this easily. I think homosexual people need more help than most as they have to be alone.

sorry i talked for so long , I was just a bit upset.

S x

 

[rlg94086]

Hi Abira,

You are correct that someone with SSA who engages in homosexual acts with a partner are not the equivalent of pedophilia or rape. First of all, mortal sin is mortal sin (i.e. they all bring death). Secondly, I personally think sin which causes harm to another, uninvolved participant or minor (homo- or hetero-sexual Adultery, rape, pedophilia) are worse than fornication, masturbation or homosexual sex.

I think the closest a heterosexual person could get to understanding SSA is if they have a strong “addiction” (some people don’t like that word, so how about strong disordered desire?) to pornography and masturbation.

BTW, we are all called to chastity, so we all have the same choice of chastity or sin. For someone SSA though, this becomes celibacy.

I will add you to my prayers.

God bless,

Robert

ok, I think a previous post had it right when they said that instead of thinking in terms of labels, we should think about people as individuals.

this above post hurt me so much I can’t tell you. This is something I will have to struggle with all my life… but what hurt me was that a rapist takes from someone who is not willing, as does a paedophile. even though I have done things that are wrong, I would never violently take away someone’s dignity in this manner and the fact that a logicalk jump was made from homosexuality to rape and paedophili made me feel sick.

I have made mistakes… and I don’t mind if anyone wants to understand this issue as it relates to an individual but I’m not putting myself up for judgement from any of you.

SSA I believe can never be altered. It is something I cannot change. The question now is: how do I live my life. I started reading this thread…and some of the words that hit me were: VILE, DISGUST…

How can I now engage with this when words of hatred are used so thoughtlessly? I try to live at the moment without having sex, but my attraction will always be there…

I place these sins alongside adultery, masturbation, lust etc etc…but words such as vile and disgust would not be used in judgement against these sins because they are more widespread sins which heterosexuals can relate to.

I think some people here would benefit from trying to relate to something outside of their own experiences and realise that even though we all sin; how many of us at a young age are offered such an ultimatum:

chastity or sin, and nothing in between… how many of you would have accepted this easily. I think homosexual people need more help than most as they have to be alone.

sorry i talked for so long , I was just a bit upset.

S x

 

[setter]

That’s not my understanding of AA at all. People who go to AA meetings identify themselves as alcoholics. By doing so, they mean to state that alcoholism is a central and inescapable part of who they are as a person.

And many of them are still engaging in the “alcoholic lifestyle,” whatever that is.

Alcoholics have a chronic disease, and the premise of AA is that folks are trying to live a sober lifestyle as a recovering alcoholic, i.e., keep the disease in remission and repair the damage done through personal choice making when they were active in their drinking. Yes, their alcoholism is a cross that they must choose to pick up daily in walking a sober existance.

Alcoholism has many parallels with SSA which is a disorder of one’s psychosexual identity. Any idea why there are not any community self-help group for those so afflicted with SSA and trying to live a chaste existance?

 

[Abira]

there are no community groups like the ones you suggest simply because without religion (I know that there are arguments about universal natural law…) but basically without religion there is no rational argument against same sex attraction…and they can live happy, healthy lives just as someone living with their boyfriend/girlfriend might. They see themselves in the same level as unmarried couples,

they wouldn’t seek help as they don’t see something ‘wrong’. even I myself don’t think I have a disorder… my thoughts are completely rational… I see it as a simple truth about myself in the same way we all have a besetting sin, for want of a better phrase. Without that idea I would probably find it a lot easier to simply live out a normal life without having to deal with the harder issues.

 

[Penny_Plain]

Any idea why there are not any community self-help group for those so afflicted with SSA and trying to live a chaste existance?

You mean, something like a group designed to “to foster a spirit of community and fellowship among gay Catholics so that they can offer and receive mutual support in living our their lives of faith with the Church” and “challenging them to live out fully the call of Christ and the teachings of the Church?”

Something like that?

 

[setter]

You mean, something like a group designed to “to foster a spirit of community and fellowship among gay Catholics so that they can offer and receive mutual support in living our their lives of faith with the Church” and “challenging them to live out fully the call of Christ and the teachings of the Church?”

Something like that?

Yes, or more generic in application as is the case with AA, simply to live a chaste existance given their disordered psychosexual desire and associated tendency toward a self-destructive lifestyle.

 

[fix]

Yes you are missing something here.

Grace.

Pedophiles and Rapists are serious criminals using sexual acts as a control measure over their victims. Homosexual behavior is misguided and misunderstood love. Ministry to people that are misguided, helps heal them. I am assuming that the parish already has a prison ministry to help the Pedophiles and Rapists come to repentance.

If you are really going to be a Deacon take on the person of Christ and look to assist the sinner to hear the Holy Spirit and repent, do not castigate them. We get enough of that from a variety of sources.

The problem is many of these groups are not faithful to the magisterium:

The Church’s ministers must ensure that homosexual persons in their care will not be misled by this point of view, so profoundly opposed to the teaching of the Church. But the risk is great and there are many who seek to create confusion regarding the Church’s position, and then to use that confusion to their own advantage.

 9. The movement within the Church, which takes the form of pressure groups of various names and sizes, attempts to give the impression that it represents all homosexual persons who are Catholics. As a matter of fact, its membership is by and large restricted to those who either ignore the teaching of the Church or seek somehow to undermine it. It brings together under the aegis of Catholicism homosexual persons who have no intention of abandoning their homosexual behaviour. One tactic used is to protest that any and all criticism of or reservations about homosexual people, their activity and lifestyle, are simply diverse forms of unjust discrimination.

1. With this in mind, this Congregation wishes to ask the Bishops to be especially cautious of any programmes which may seek to pressure the Church to change her teaching, even while claiming not to do so. A careful examination of their public statements and the activities they promote reveals a studied ambiguity by which they attempt to mislead the pastors and the faithful. For example, they may present the teaching of the Magisterium, but only as if it were an optional source for the formation of one’s conscience. Its specific authority is not recognized. Some of these groups will use the word “Catholic” to describe either the organization or its intended members, yet they do not defend and promote the teaching of the Magisterium; indeed, they even openly attack it. While their members may claim a desire to conform their lives to the teaching of Jesus, in fact they abandon the teaching of his Church. This contradictory action should not have the support of the Bishops in any way.

15. We encourage the Bishops, then, to provide pastoral care in full accord with the teaching of the Church for homosexual persons of their dioceses. No authentic pastoral programme will include organizations in which homosexual persons associate with each other without clearly stating that homosexual activity is immoral. A truly pastoral approach will appreciate the need for homosexual persons to avoid the near occasions of sin.

 [vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html)

 

[Lynn-D]

The basic teachings as I learned them long before my first communion was that if I made a confession it would only be valid if I made every effort not to commit the same sin again. Only in that way would I be forgiven.

I think the question needed to be asked of all in the Catholic Church should be clear and not at all ambiguous as Bishop Mahoney seems to be implying. I think the teachings taught to many of us pre first communion should be applied: “In confessing do you promise to God that you are sorry for the sin and will do all not to commit it again”. That works for me!

If living in mortal sin then all need to know that they cannot receive the eucharist for that is but another mortal sin is it not?

I do not see it as a good example of Catholic teaching to welcome those who are committed and intend to remain so to a lifestyle and/or in a sinful relationship with another, homosexual or otherwise.

Lynn-D

 

[Lynn-D]

You might be missing the bigger picture. Certainly, all of us are equally important to God (and the Church). But if persons with SSA are 10% of the population, then its a sizeable population carrying a specific cross and the Church would do well to specifically address it.

Some have suggested that the percentile you state is bloated and the appropriate number might be closer to 4 or 5%. To imply those who might have SSA are practicing homosexuals I think is quite misleading.

I feel the homosexual community has inflated the numbers to support their political voice. Heck, they have even begun to add those not homosexual to their GLB, gay/lesbian/bi acronym. Now it is growing from GLBTTIQQ and other letters to be added later all in an attempt to give voice to their self inflated political legitimacy without regard to those who are not homosexual.

Lynn-D

 

[Penny_Plain]

Yes, or more generic in application as is the case with AA, simply to live a chaste existance given their disordered psychosexual desire and associated tendency toward a self-destructive lifestyle.

You realize I was quoting this group’s mission statement, right?