Miracles again -

  • Thread starter Thread starter FiveLinden
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

FiveLinden

Guest
The moderators have wisely closed my thread on miracles and what would be needed to convince an unbeliever such as me.

I learned from that thread how attached many Catholics are to miracle stories and how challenging their factual basis causes emotional responses. I did not mean to upset anyone but I am genuinely interested in how people come to believe things I find unbelievable.

I don’t find God unbelievable because there is no way to test that hypothesis. But miracles are claims about the observable material world. They are testable and the claims of modern miracles simply don’t meet the standards we require for other observations of material phenomena.
 
Last edited:
It comes from faith and from the heart.

Pray for the gift of grace and faith. Then you will start to understand.
Miracles aren’t always major sun turning events though.
They can be small almost imperceptible ways God is in our lives.

But to talk about miracles not meeting testable standards, can you elaborate. I am an analytical scientist.
 
Last edited:
It is claimed by some here that consecrated hosts exhibited the appearance of human flesh and that upon testing it was shown to be human heart tissue.

No one links to papers published in peer reviewed journals or similar material to support these claims.

If the miracle happened it should be easy to do such research. Instead the ‘evidence’ provided are links to Catholic sites, not scientific sites.

If the point of a miracle is to demonstrate the power of God and reinforce faith, they should do this rather than creating the sort of logical miasma you see in arguments about homeopathy and astrology.
 
You can easily search those test results. But , and here’s the thing,

Do you understand how to read a credible peer reviewed journal article?

Catholics do not follow astrology.

Homeopathy is a broad discipline. Which aspect of it do you refer to.
 
Last edited:
Miracles are not to demonstrate the power of God or reinforce faith.
They simply are to the Glory of God.

And as you exemplify, they do not reinforce faith. They lead the faithful to praise and glorify God.

Miracles such as Egypt. Have converted thousands. Of all different faiths and of non believers. Thousands witnessed them. You can see photos and videos online. Have you heard of the miracles that were occurring in Egypt.
 
Roseeurekacross said:
Catholics do not follow astrology.

Homeopathy is a broad discipline. Which aspect of it do you refer to
Click to expand...
Yes I understand that Catholics should not practice astrology. Homeopathy works no better than placebo. Yet millions believe in it and spend money on it.
 
May 13,1981 Pope John Paul ll shot 4 times in Vatican Square, His Holiness survived the assassination attempt as we all know. Miracle? Look up the facts… Again you are looking for miracles same as yesterday, Look to Jesus for the the Truth, for until you feel the warmth and caring, knowing that He is there you will keep looking for miracles, of which there are many. May you find your Way. God bless you.
 
Padre Pio’s stigmata was tested many times and the results point to a profound mystery.
The Shroud of Turin has been tested many times and the results point to a profound mystery.
The image of Our Lady of Guadalupe has been tested many times and the results point to a profound mystery. The image of her observers have been actually found in her eyes.

What exactly are you looking for in miracles? What is your “natural” explanation for these events?
 
You are not addressing my questions about the science you seek
 
Reposting a closed topic?

Until you have firm understanding of God, you will never understand miracles.

Your biggest issue is that you are trying to understand the material phenomena while having no conception of the immaterial. Focus your attention on understanding transcendace and the nature of God first.

If you take miraculous healings for instance. Let’s say a blind man was able to see. He would have been examined deemed blind because of damage or malformation of the eye. And, he has lived this way for many years. Now let’s say, he is suddenly able to see perfectly after washing his face with water from a natural spring. What would a scientist do?

He would look at prior medical records, then he would exam and test the eye. Let’s say upon examination he found a perfectly regenerated eye with 20/20 vision. Let’s say his findings are that there is no medical or scientific explanation for the regeneration of the eye. Let’s say that repeat testing by other scientists yields the same result. Now what?
 
Last edited:
The peer reviewed article written up for the scientific analysis of the Eucharistic Miracle at Lanciano from the 8th century can be found below. It was published in Quaderni Sclavo di Diagnostica Clinica e di Laboratori in Italian. The analysis was done in 1971 by Dr. Odoaro Linoli, the former head of the Laboratory of Pathological Anatomy at the Hospital of Arezzo. The findings were confirmed by Dr. Ruggero Bertelli, a retired professor of human anatomy at the University of Siena. This is an analysis of just one of the Eucharistic Miracles in which the host became human flesh.

www.mediafire.com

Lanciano Article 16-45-35

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.
www.mediafire.com
 
Last edited:
FiveLinden said:
… They are testable and the claims of modern miracles simply don’t meet the standards we require for other observations of material phenomena.
Click to expand...
Transubstantiation is a miracle. There is no outward change but essential change.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top