Miracles/help me out here

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Maragal

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Some of you may have noted the evangelical church in California praying for the resurrection of a 2 year old who died. They prayed for 6 days that God would bring her back to life, THIS life…they truly believed this wasn’t her time to die…the parents were fully engaged with it, may have started the prayers.

First - God please bring peace to this family, and care for this childs precious soul.

I believe in miracles. I am currently praying that Dorothy Day heal my friend Martyn from Parkinsons. (She needs her miracle, re her sainthood, and he needs a miracle!)

If I believe that can happen - shouldnt I also believe God could bring this child back to life (THIS life, walking the earth and breathing)…and if so, why am I so uncomfortable with the church praying for God to bring her back to life? I feel like Im being hypocritical. A miracle is a miracle. Our God can do wonders…and yet it upset me.

Any thoughts? Kind comments, even when critiquing, as always, please! Especially as we are talking about a grieving family.
 
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  1. The people doing this have chosen to pray for this miracle publicly, associate it with a high-profile evangelical church, and couple it with a plea for funds. There are a lot of problems with this. It’s not just somebody praying sincerely for a miracle at the hospital.
  2. The church doing this is also not Catholic, and while God could do a miracle for a non-Catholic, God mainly does miracles for the increase of faith. Raising a child from the dead is a major miracle and is not something we would expect to see at a high-profile non-Catholic church as it would appear that God was leading people to that church rather than to the Catholic Church.
  3. We believe that life doesn’t end at bodily death. Therefore, I think we feel a conflict between wanting to accept the will of God and the belief in the afterlife/ heaven (where this child, being under the age of reason, would very likely go), and our belief in the ability of God to work miracles.
In any event, it appears God chose to not work a miracle in this case. Sad for the family of the child, but God has his reasons.
 
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Thank you both! Yes, I phrased that badly, re Dorothy Day! I was thinking about it the wrong way around…

I do believe God could heal in the non Catholic Church (and has likely done so)…Im just very conflicted about it all. Do appreciate your thoughts, TisBear…Im not sure “how” I feel about the publuc nature of this…though being publuc, it did increase prayers.
 
Maragal said:
If I believe that can happen - shouldnt I also believe God could bring this child back to life (THIS life, walking the earth and breathing)…and if so, why am I so uncomfortable with the church praying for God to bring her back to life? I feel like Im being hypocritical. A miracle is a miracle. Our God can do wonders…and yet it upset me.
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The issue I see is that God has already promised to resurrect this girl in Christ Jesus, on the last day, and this evangelical congregation is rejecting that promise and demanding something that God has not promised to do through his Son. Ultimately, it is this family who will be disappointed as they aren’t being pointed toward the promises delivered in the scriptures, namely peace in the knowledge that we have been reconciled to God through the body and blood shed by Christ, and that we will be bodily resurrected on the last day, and that those who have faith in Christ will reign with him in glory eternally.
 
Thank you both! Yes, I phrased that badly, re Dorothy Day! I was thinking about it the wrong way around…

I do believe God could heal in the non Catholic Church (and has likely done so)…Im just very conflicted about it all. Do appreciate your thoughts, TisBear…Im not sure “how” I feel about the public nature of this…though being public, it did increase prayers.
 
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Don’t Evangelical Christians also believe the same about the Resurrection as do Catholics? I realize there are differences in detail but isn’t the gist of the Resurrection of the glorified body very similar? If they do, then why are they praying for something which G-d Himself did not promise, that is, a miracle that would, possibly, devalue the significance of the miracle promised through revelation? It seems to me, in a way, a bit un-Christian to pray for such a miracle based on Christian dogma.
 
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Hi everyone, I seem to have accidentally deleted one of my own posts! Isnt praying for a miracle - full stop - asking for somethimg outwith the natural order, and possibly Gods plan…how is
praying for ressurection for this child differrnt from my praying for Martyns Parlinsons to disappear, for a full, glorious healing?
 
meltzerboy2 said:
Don’t Evangelical Christians also believe the same about the Resurrection as do Catholics? I realize there are differences in detail but isn’t the gist of the Resurrection of the glorified body very similar? If they do, then why are they praying for something which G-d Himself did not promise, that is, a miracle that would, possibly, devalue the significance of the miracle promised through revelation? It seems to me, in a way, a bit un-Christian to pray for such a miracle based on Christian dogma.
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I am not sure I completely understand your question, so I apologize if my answer misses the point you were getting at. Evangelical Christians do profess belief in the Resurrection. However, as is the case in any faith tradition, people are not always taught the doctrines they supposedly profess correctly. I think that is what you are seeing in this case. The particular movement this Church belongs to has a habit of downplaying the actual promises given in scripture for miraculous signs that are not promised in the scriptures as some sort of proof that the ministry they are engaging in is authentic. Essentially, they confuse the descriptive passages in the New Testament scriptures that describe miracles performed by the disciples and mistake these passages to mean that we are commanded to do the same, or that Christ has promised to grant their petition in this case, and the effect is that they tacitly reject the miracle of resurrection that actually has been promised as the normative expectation. It comes down to poor catechesis.
 
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But actually now that their miracle on earth hasnt happened they are praying for this baby’s soul, and believing she will be wth God. So Im just not clear how thats different than we Catholics praying for our miracles…(such as we use in the process of sainthood) Im kinda playing devils advocate here, and kind of really wondering…
 
Hodos said:
The issue I see is that God has already promised to resurrect this girl in Christ Jesus, on the last day, and this evangelical congregation is rejecting that promise and demanding something that God has not promised to do through his Son. Ultimately, it is this family who will be disappointed as they aren’t being pointed toward the promises delivered in the scriptures, namely peace in the knowledge that we have been reconciled to God through the body and blood shed by Christ, and that we will be bodily resurrected on the last day, and that those who have faith in Christ will reign with him in glory eternally.
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By that reasoning, it would have been wrong for the parents of the baby brought back to life by Archbishop Sheen’s intercession to pray for baby to live. The baby had no vital signs for an hour and gave every appearance of being a stillbirth.

We can pray for any miracle we want, we just have to be prepared for God to say No.
 
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Yes, Tisbear, I think you are right. This family it seems is now celebrating their daughters life, having a memorial service and trusting her soul to God - I hope they get comfort and Gods peace…

Maybe my own discomfort was more about the “public nature” than the prayer itself…it not how “we” tend to do these things…but it doesnt mean its wrong. I dont know! But God Bless this childs soul.
 
A very good novel, written by a Catholic author, examines resurrection in our time of modern funerary practices:

 
Tis_Bearself said:
By that reasoning, it would have been wrong for the parents of the baby brought back to life by Archbishop Sheen’s intercession to pray for baby to live. The baby had no vital signs for an hour and gave every appearance of being a stillbirth.

We can pray for any miracle we want, we just have to be prepared for God to say No.
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I would not disagree with you there. I however would not demand the baby be resurrected as confirmation of the Church’s ministry as Bethel has done in this case, or use it to fundraise. If you read further into this Church’s practice and ministry I think you will see what I mean. Keep in mind this child has been dead for over a week now and still is not be processed for burial.
 
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Maragal said:
Any thoughts?
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I would think, with all compassion for the family included, that anyone who sees heaven will have little or no interest in coming back to this life. Suppose the child hears her family’s prayers, feel sympathy and great love for them. But she’s in the presense of the Divine and of the Savior. She can probably project her future life, or be shown what it will entail. If God were to have given her the choice it’s should be clear by now that she doesn’t want to leave her new home. As great is the family’s grieving, there is a respect to be given to the choice of the little soul to stay where she is.
 
Maragal said:
Maybe my own discomfort was more about the “public nature” than the prayer itself…it not how “we” tend to do these things…but it doesnt mean its wrong.
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I’m disturbed by that too, especially by the appeal for money. As commentators have pointed out, this congregation doesn’t appear to be poor and it’s questionable where the money is going. The true crime buff in me also would like to know a bit more about how this seemingly healthy 2-year-old all of a sudden just stopped breathing and died at her home. It could very well be perfectly innocent, but when the coroner is saying it’s “under investigation” then I just don’t know for sure.

There’s also a concern about doing something this high-profile and God says “no” and what that does to the faith of those who are looking on.

And there’s a concern in general about self-styled evangelists. As much as we complain about the Church hierarchy, the priests do have oversight from the bishops, even the traveling evangelist priests. I’m pretty sure the bishop would object to a priest making a public spectacle out of trying to raise a dead child, or suggesting that if enough people share a post on social media and pray then we’ll get a miracle. That’s not how faith works - God doesn’t count up the “likes” and “shares”.
 
Yes, I agree with you about not liking the public manner they are going about it, or the fundraiser.

In any event, if they were seeking to raise this child as some confirmation that their church is the true church, they have their answer.

i also read that this church has been promoting a “Supernatural Dead Raising Ministry” of theirs, which is just so far out there…I can’t even.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
Yes, I agree with you about not liking the public manner they are going about it, or the fundraiser.

In any event, if they were seeking to raise this child as some confirmation that their church is the true church, they have their answer.

i also read that this church has been promoting a “Supernatural Dead Raising Ministry” of theirs, which is just so far out there…I can’t even.
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Yeah, they are pretty far outside the norm of historic Christian doctrine and practice. I just find the whole situation to be irresponsible pastorally. I can’t imagine they will even be able to hold an open casket viewing at this point, which is helpful for acceptance in the grieving process. I have lost a child in the past through miscarriage, and have seen what it is like to have a young person taken before their time in senseless tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through, and the pastoral response to me, does not seem helpful.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
In any event, if they were seeking to raise this child as some confirmation that their church is the true church, they have their answer.
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I find this statement a bit odd considering this isn’t the norm for any faith tradition. I chalk it up to poor catechesis in the actual promises that we have received in scripture.
 
Yes, I can see all of these concerns. Regarding money, the public nature, etc…Ill give them all the benefit of the doubt re use of the money (since I just dont know)…but I can see how it can be worrisome. The pastoral issue, as pointed out, is a real concern too.

One point of correction though - this family HAS now accepted the child is dead, and they are grieving, and planning a memorial service…and they do believe she is with God…so, they asked for a miracle, didnt get it, and now accept their child is in glory. Its not THAT different than we praying for last minute miracles to save someones life, and keep them with us. (We pray for folks to be “kept from heaven” (for the time being) all the time, when we pray for folks to be cured of cancer, etc…)

Anyway, thanks for the discussion folks! God Bless this child …and may her family gain comfort from God…I think with all prayers for miracles, at the end of the day, its about accepting Gods will…accepting Him granting the miracles - and also, not granting them. His will be done.
 
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